Everton 3-0 Newcastle United (07/12/23)

[54]

Lads, it's one defeat, calm the fuck down, for your own mental sanity if nothing else

[WideopenMag]

2 minutes ago, Mills and Boon said:

I could see us beating Spurs. High line, like to fuck around with the ball in dangerous areas. Crying out for fresh legs though, January can't come soon enough 

Where do we strengthen though? Do we sign a winger if we've got some coming back to fitness? A centre midfielder when we have Wilock coming back and 50million Tonali back next season? It's a hard one to judge when it's down to injuries/suspensions etc.

[Ronaldo]

We still don’t have one midfielder who sees the game in front of him and has the talent on the ball to take advantage of it. That has to be the priority.

[joeyt]

Guarantee the people in here not understanding the fatigue issue will say if we get a result against Spurs and/or Milan  "see we can get a result against these teams so it clearly wasn't about fatigue against Everton"

[Doctor Zaius]

We're definitely fatigued, we can see it however thats not the full story.  Not being able to even bring on subs is the worst  though. Players know that and it must play on their mind. Mentally they are drained too, I think Burn mentioned it this week. Even resting a player for the last 20 does wonders. If we had Willock, Wilson and Barnes/Murphy to bring on, I think itd be a different story and it would have been us taking it up a gear, not them. 

 

Its a bit of a worry that we dont seem to have an answer for teams that surrender possession of the ball and hit us on the counter, away from home. Everton have done it, Bournemouth did and Wolves were a dodgy VAR decision from turning us over too. Everton were tough, they battled well and looked good on the break, but they were more than happy for us to have the ball. We'll fashion the odd chance but we're poor finishers. Gordon can be wasteful in front of goal and he was at his worst last night, snatching at chances, picking the wrong option. He lost his head a bit. 

 

Almiron needs to be replaced sooner rather than later. He's just not technically good enough. Yes, he runs and presses well, but if we want to step it up a level, we need players who arent going to waste opportunities like he does. He good if we're pressing, or hitting teams on the counter, but the better we get, the more we'll need clinical players who can take chances against teams who are dug in. Thats not him, time and again he'll waste opportunities. I think Barnes is a miss in these types of games. You'd back him infront of goal. 

 

 

[The College Dropout]

26 minutes ago, WideopenMag said:

It was a bad day at the office but I fear there's something more at play, especially with our away performances. We really aren't clinical enough and need to start taking more of our chances we were all over Man United and only managed one goal, could have got sucker punched and ended up with a point. Almirons and Gordon's shooting at times is just poor and we aren't getting enough goals from our midfield 3. It's less forgving away from home especially the longer the game goes on at 0-0.

 

 

 

Regardless of mistakes. I don't think we deserved to win. If the game ended before the first goal, we would've been happier with the point than Everton on the balance of play.

[Erikse]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Regardless of mistakes. I don't think we deserved to win. If the game ended before the first goal, we would've been happier with the point than Everton on the balance of play.

 

Everton had a bunch of chances already in the first 30 minutes of the game. They missed some really big ones, especially the DCL one. I couldn't believe how it was still 0-0.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Erikse

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The game could've gone either way, the mistake just broke our resolve. 

 

Everton's success was a bit overblown for me, they are held to different standards. They get credit of causing chaos and lumping balls into the box, we are expected to play good football.

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, Ronaldo said:

We still don’t have one midfielder who sees the game in front of him and has the talent on the ball to take advantage of it. That has to be the priority.

This is where Willock and Tonali come into play. But we do need someone who can really ball in Almiron's position.

 

When we build attacks, we are just trying to find angles for Bruno and Trippier to make incisive passes. We need more players with that ability to find a pass and the quality to finish chances.

[Erikse]

13 minutes ago, joeyt said:

Guarantee the people in here not understanding the fatigue issue will say if we get a result against Spurs and/or Milan  "see we can get a result against these teams so it clearly wasn't about fatigue against Everton"

 

If we play with the same energy as we did against Manchester United then I will be a little bit confused trying to see how we played 90 minutes being tired psychically and mentally all game 3 days before, yes. I guess it would be a pleasant surprise, though.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Erikse

[joeyt]

3 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

If we play with the same energy as we did against Manchester United then I will be a little bit confused trying to see how we played 90 minutes being exhausted all game 3 days before, yes.

 

 

 

 

Do you not think players energy levels can rise and dip based on certain circumstances though?

 

Like players may have more energy at home rather than away because of the crowd energy. Or a feeling of injustice or a contentious decision can increase energy levels

 

Neither of those circumstances mean that the players still aren't hugely fatigued

[joeyt]

You don't start at 10 and then go in a straight line down to 0 in terms of fatigue

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Fatigue really gets you when the chips are down as well, like playing away and one of your best players letting a goal in out of nowhere.

[Erikse]

8 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

Do you not think players energy levels can rise and dip based on certain circumstances though?

 

Like players may have more energy at home rather than away because of the crowd energy. Or a feeling of injustice or a contentious decision can increase energy levels

 

Neither of those circumstances mean that the players still aren't hugely fatigued

 

Against Spurs in particular we can probably get a result regardless considering their form, I can agree on that. But the amount of days between each game has to be relevant when we're going from 5 days rest before the last 2, to 3 days rest in the next 4 games, right? Generally that should make us even more tired than we have been. The whole reason as to why we experience fatigue is the amount of days between each match. So I would be surprised if our overall performance will be better in the next ones than the one against Everton if that was just down to fatigue, because we will be even more tired in a couple of week.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Erikse

[Interpolic]

5 minutes ago, joeyt said:

You don't start at 10 and then go in a straight line down to 0 in terms of fatigue

 

This has been pointed out to him many, many times.

[joeyt]

If I ran 3 half marathons in a week if it was a straight line my fastest one would be the first one and third one slowest.

 

But a variety of factors could actually make the third one my fastest even though that's the one I'm most fatigued in. This could be because the crowd were providing better energy in the final one for me to run faster or I was trying to beat an opposition runner in the third race

 

I really don't think it's that complicated

[Erikse]

52 minutes ago, joeyt said:

If I ran 3 half marathons in a week if it was a straight line my fastest one would be the first one and third one slowest.

 

But a variety of factors could actually make the third one my fastest even though that's the one I'm most fatigued in. This could be because the crowd were providing better energy in the final one for me to run faster or I was trying to beat an opposition runner in the third race

 

I really don't think it's that complicated

 

There will be some variance, I know. I'm just saying that generally if fatigue is already a huge problem, it is a huge cause of concern, because generally we will be even more tired in the next few weeks as we will have an even tighter schedule. I think Howe will be analyzing the Everton game to figure out what we could've done better, like he did against Bournemouth.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Erikse

[clintdempsey]

We're obviously fatigued. That's an explanation of sorts for this kind of performance. But it's not an excuse - and Eddie himself seems to see this game as a missed chance.
We've been terribly unlucky with injuries - most of them freak injuries, some probably related to over extertion and fatigue as well if analysed. We've also had a hellish schedule which is also an explanation and not an excuse. My biggest concern (and it is a rather small one in the grand scheme of things since we're overall doing great - particularly with the above taken into account) is that when we rock up to games trying to contain or control the flow (eg. play more possession football, lowering our starting positions, and not pressing as much as we use to) we seem a bit lost. When we go guns blazing we're often fine but overall our away performances this season has been of the more energy-conserving variety which is far from our strong point. Anyways, Eddie will get it right and there will be more bumps in the road. Wouldn't be totally surprised to see us blitz Spurs on sunday either. 

[Displayname]

6 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

There will be variance, I know. I'm just saying that generally if fatigue is already a huge problem, it is a huge cause of concern, because generally we will be even more tired in the next few weeks as we will have an even tighter schedule. I think Howe will be analyzing the Everton game to figure out what we could've done better, like he did against Bournemouth.

 

 

 

It is a huge concern tbh. Thats just reality. Facing it doesnt mean i am negative.

[The College Dropout]

33 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

Do you not think players energy levels can rise and dip based on certain circumstances though?

 

Like players may have more energy at home rather than away because of the crowd energy. Or a feeling of injustice or a contentious decision can increase energy levels

 

Neither of those circumstances mean that the players still aren't hugely fatigued

Aye but that means you could be doing more away from home mentally to prepare.

28 minutes ago, joeyt said:

If I ran 3 half marathons in a week if it was a straight line my fastest one would be the first one and third one slowest.

 

But a variety of factors could actually make the third one my fastest even though that's the one I'm most fatigued in. This could be because the crowd were providing better energy in the final one for me to run faster or I was trying to beat an opposition runner in the third race

 

I really don't think it's that complicated

If you are not trained to do a marathon 3x a week. If you prepare the same way, run each race at 100% the first will be the fastest and the third will be the slowest. If all other things are equal. From a fatigue perspective, we should be worse at Spurs than we were at Everton. The best teams/athletes/professionals minimise the impact of external factors like the crowd. If we are able to play intensely for 70 minutes at home but can't do it away at all - it's not just fatigue that is causing it.

[The College Dropout]

8 minutes ago, clintdempsey said:

We're obviously fatigued. That's an explanation of sorts for this kind of performance. But it's not an excuse - and Eddie himself seems to see this game as a missed chance.
We've been terribly unlucky with injuries - most of them freak injuries, some probably related to over extertion and fatigue as well if analysed. We've also had a hellish schedule which is also an explanation and not an excuse. My biggest concern (and it is a rather small one in the grand scheme of things since we're overall doing great - particularly with the above taken into account) is that when we rock up to games trying to contain or control the flow (eg. play more possession football, lowering our starting positions, and not pressing as much as we use to) we seem a bit lost. When we go guns blazing we're often fine but overall our away performances this season has been of the more energy-conserving variety which is far from our strong point. Anyways, Eddie will get it right and there will be more bumps in the road. Wouldn't be totally surprised to see us blitz Spurs on sunday either. 

Agreed. This approach doesn't work away from home. It's not worked all season. We don't have the personnel for it, and we aren't set up tactically for it.

 

Our best bet is what we did at PSG. We pressed them high and hard as long as we could. And then we tried to hold on. On another day we lose that game 3-1 but I still maintain that's the best path to victory. If we do that at Everton we could be 1 or 2 up and they have less quality to break us down.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think taking about what is and isn't a valid excuse is a bit pointless. They're just all factors that contribute to an outcome. 

 

FWIW we don't yet have enough technical quality (at least not available) to rise above games like last night and simply control possession to take the sting out of the game. Our style contributes to fast-paced and energetic matches. 

 

Howe has tried to modify our style and has reduced the reliance on crazy pressing etc, but we still have a lot of players who aren't technically good enough to just outplay anyone in any situation. 

[Whitley mag]

1 hour ago, Ronaldo said:

We still don’t have one midfielder who sees the game in front of him and has the talent on the ball to take advantage of it. That has to be the priority.

Very much this and don’t think Bruno further forward is the answer. We really need a technical midfielder for certain games that require a bit more than Joelinton’s brute strength.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Whitley mag

[magvicar]

1 hour ago, WideopenMag said:

Where do we strengthen though? Do we sign a winger if we've got some coming back to fitness? A centre midfielder when we have Wilock coming back and 50million Tonali back next season? It's a hard one to judge when it's down to injuries/suspensions etc.

I think loan deals would be the way to go in January, unless we have one major player identified on a permanent.

 

[rutland]

14 hours ago, TRon said:

 

After a 3-0 defeat to a hoofball side threatened with relegagtion? I'd say probaby yes.

The third was 30 passes or so before the goal though.