Group C: 1. England, 2. Denmark, 3. Slovenia (Q), 4. Serbia

[Shearergol]

2 minutes ago, TBG said:

Maybe a long shot, but could the performances be in protest to King Charles being head of the monarchy?

 

There's a lot of youngsters in the squad who've been brought up learning Fortday dances from tockTik, when back in my day we lived off rations and danced to the sound of another failed Stuka dive bomb.

 

Throw in the woke poisoning the nations mind into believing that the bitch Diana didn't deserve to end up in two different postcodes and it's clear the players aren't playing for our King.

 

I think you've actually missed for a change with this one.

[Rich]

At least there was a bit more intensity and the team we ended with was as close as we’ve been to the team we should have started the tournament with. Otherwise, it was all a bit predictable and I was struggling to keep my eyes open at points in the first half.

[Dr.Spaceman]

I just don't understand how he's so scared to sub off (or make changes tactically with) Kane or Bellingham. Why is it that us and Scotland have the worst managers in the tournament man, what is wrong with us in the UK where we are seemingly forced to stand by these people because they're "canny". GTF, they're paid millions and are currently underperforming in their jobs, they cannot shirk all form of criticism because they seem like they'd be decent blokes to have a pint with.

 

It really doesn't have to be this shit.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, LiquidAK said:

I agree it was, but I don't know about major - sure I read somewhere that the host country hasn't won the Euros since the 80s

We didn't win it either.

He's not beaten a "top" side in KO competition away from Wembley and neither has any England manager. Martinez gets a lot of stick but he's at least beaten Brazil (and England twice). If we beat the Netherlands, that's a massive achievement IMO.

 

 

I still think the side is a mess. Left hand side is still broken. The midfield with Mainoo is too often vacated and a better side will punish us on the transition. I thought Bellingham at 10 and Kane at 9 would have Bellingham getting in the box lots as Kane drops deep and it hasn't happened, that's a clusterfuck.

[Likelylad]

5 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

I just don't understand how he's so scared to sub off (or make changes tactically with) Kane or Bellingham. Why is it that us and Scotland have the worst managers in the tournament man, what is wrong with us in the UK where we are seemingly forced to stand by these people because they're "canny". GTF, they're paid millions and are currently underperforming in their jobs, they cannot shirk all form of criticism because they seem like they'd be decent blokes to have a pint with.

 

It really doesn't have to be this shit.

Mancini in the Euro final was the completely antithesis to this. 

Immobile & Barella both taken of 10 minutes into the 2nd half. Changed it up and they then scored to level it 10/15 or mins so after that. 

Southgate doesn't have that proactive in game management in him. 

[Sima]

17 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We didn't win it either.

He's not beaten a "top" side in KO competition away from Wembley and neither has any England manager. Martinez gets a lot of stick but he's at least beaten Brazil (and England twice). If we beat the Netherlands, that's a massive achievement IMO.

 

 

I still think the side is a mess. Left hand side is still broken. The midfield with Mainoo is too often vacated and a better side will punish us on the transition. I thought Bellingham at 10 and Kane at 9 would have Bellingham getting in the box lots as Kane drops deep and it hasn't happened, that's a clusterfuck.

 

Just had a look at our KO record since 1980.  Here's the list of teams we've beaten in 120 minutes.

 

Senegal

Denmark

Ukraine

Germany

Sweden

Ecuador

Denmark

Belgium

Cameroon

Paraguay

Rancid.

[Dr.Spaceman]

37 minutes ago, Likelylad said:

Mancini in the Euro final was the completely antithesis to this. 

Immobile & Barella both taken of 10 minutes into the 2nd half. Changed it up and they then scored to level it 10/15 or mins so after that. 

Southgate doesn't have that proactive in game management in him. 

 

And I thought Eddie Howe was poor in this regard 

[huss9]

4 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

And I thought Eddie Howe was poor in this regard 

really?

[Dr.Spaceman]

1 minute ago, huss9 said:

really?

 

Game management? Absolutely. But this isn't the time or the place for that discussion 

[The College Dropout]

DUPE

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:52 by The College Dropout

[Geordie Boyo]

Any other manager ?

 

 

[Mattoon]

In hindsight I think there's an element of fear for Siuthgate here, if he did start with Gordon and Palmer instead of Foden and Saka and it didn't go to plan then you'd have to imagine the red shirt supporters, of which there are many, would be up in arms about not using his best players. I think the safety first mindset reaches further than just the tactics to the popular opinion, there's always been a "big club" bias to selection and this tournament is no different and it will always be to England's detriment. If you can't do it on the world stage then get off the pitch.

 

There is a feeling of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but at this point he may as well take the risk as he's in danger of having the worst tournament of his tenure.

[Likelylad]

3 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

In hindsight I think there's an element of fear for Siuthgate here, if he did start with Gordon and Palmer instead of Foden and Saka and it didn't go to plan then you'd have to imagine the red shirt supporters, of which there are many, would be up in arms about not using his best players. I think the safety first mindset reaches further than just the tactics to the popular opinion, there's always been a "big club" bias to selection and this tournament is no different and it will always be to England's detriment. If you can't do it on the world stage then get off the pitch.

 

There is a feeling of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but at this point he may as well take the risk as he's in danger of having the worst tournament of his tenure.

There's definitely something to that. Arsenal fans would be fuming if he drops Saka and starts Palmer  and we get beat.

Man U fans still keep banging the Rashford drum even though he stunk up the season 

However, he had the opportunity to make proactive changes in the last 2 games and has shied away from it.

[The College Dropout]

19 minutes ago, Mattoon said:

In hindsight I think there's an element of fear for Siuthgate here, if he did start with Gordon and Palmer instead of Foden and Saka and it didn't go to plan then you'd have to imagine the red shirt supporters, of which there are many, would be up in arms about not using his best players. I think the safety first mindset reaches further than just the tactics to the popular opinion, there's always been a "big club" bias to selection and this tournament is no different and it will always be to England's detriment. If you can't do it on the world stage then get off the pitch.

 

There is a feeling of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but at this point he may as well take the risk as he's in danger of having the worst tournament of his tenure.

It's weak.

 

TBH I think he's gone with the team he thinks is best. But it's not.

 

IMO he should've taken a natural and fit LB.

 

Rashford & Sterling have performed for him and England. He should've taken at least one of them.

 

If he loves Phillips so much he should've taken him.

[Kanji]

Jude may work as a 10 for Real but he’s not a 10 for England. He should be back to playing as a box to box, but attacking 8 role where he’s got far more influence on the game. He doesn’t have Valverde, Kross, etc behind him or Vini and Rodrygo. 
 

England either need to have Palmer or Foden as the 10 or abandon that setup and go with 2 8s and a sitting 6. 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 10:30 by Kanji

[Kanji]

Unless Shaw magically shows up for the knockouts it was really stupid to take him and then try and shoehorn Trippier at LB. Surely there are passable LB’s who could get a decent job done while maintaining width and balance. 
 

I could name 2 that play for Newcastle that would have at least helped kept some decent shape for England. 

[Coffee_Johnny]

43 minutes ago, Geordie Boyo said:

Any other manager ?

 

 

Foden and Bellingham might be the new Lampard and Scholes 🤔 

[Rich]

Why not just play Walker on the left so Trippier/Trent aren't totally nullified as an attacking fret?

 

Picky; Trenty, Stonesy, Guehi, Walky; Ricey, Judey; Coley, Fodey, Gordy; Harry

 

 

[hakka]

I really dislike the 4-2-3-1, purely as 6 sat on edge of our box and your asking 4 attacking players to somehow play through 8 players, effectively double marked, seems ridiculous. You need DMs that are free to roam and disciplined to get back, and that sort of formation needs more long term coaching and cohesion to work. Also needs pace and runners everywhere, which Kane nullifies a lot.

 

Trent and Gallagher were never going to roam forward and be the answer, but Mainoo I thought changed us in the right way. Felt like when he came on he was clever enough to get forward and use the ball well and suddenly camp more in the opposition half than our own. If it's same formation, Rice and Mainoo is right DM pairing.

 

Kane is a problem for me too. He can't do it on his own. His only goal was a poachers chance from a mistake, not a good move clinical finish. This system is designed for Watkins, a runner in behind. When Kane drops deep and puts in Foden or Saka out wide he doesn't have the pace to get forward again, so we end up crossing in to the box with 4 defenders and Foden or Saka expecting to really do anything? It's an impossible ask.

 

No matter the combination of players, I think the formation is too conservative. I'd prefer 4-1-3-2, and sacrifice the second DM to put Toney/Watkins upfront with Kane. Makes it harder to for their defenders to leave the forwards and creates space to move in midfield with. Also hopefully means the ball sticks up front, or if we do cross it then two strikers is better than one.

 

If not a second striker, then sacrifice a DM for Gordon or Palmer and rebalance that line in behind Kane. Kane shouldn't need to drop deep, he should be occupying the two centre backs and be ready for a ball in at all times. Seeing him on the wing, the half way line... even dribbling out of our own box. It's criminal.

 

Our games have been so dull I drew Southgate as a penis yesterday. So wasn't all bad "watching" the game. Perhaps should have made the balls smaller, as he's never shown any this tournament.

 

Hope eveyone is enjoying a nice summer.

 

[Geordie Boyo]

It’s really that simple to just play your best team, instead of being stubborn with decisions that go against showing our full potential. 

 

It’s just as important to have a good bench where he could bring Foden & Saka on to potentially change the game in a straight swap. It’s that straight forward, but he can’t do it whether it’s reasons to please or that he's just thick.

 

He's managing at the highest level and he doesn’t know what team to play with potentially one of the best squads in the tournament….but he doesn’t have shaw or a kalvin phillips. Fucking thick twat! 

 

[mouldy_uk]

Last few pages of this thread have been wild

 

[leffe186]

1 hour ago, Mattoon said:

In hindsight I think there's an element of fear for Siuthgate here, if he did start with Gordon and Palmer instead of Foden and Saka and it didn't go to plan then you'd have to imagine the red shirt supporters, of which there are many, would be up in arms about not using his best players. I think the safety first mindset reaches further than just the tactics to the popular opinion, there's always been a "big club" bias to selection and this tournament is no different and it will always be to England's detriment. If you can't do it on the world stage then get off the pitch.

 

There is a feeling of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but at this point he may as well take the risk as he's in danger of having the worst tournament of his tenure.

That might be true, and IIRC there were people on here saying he can’t not play Foden or whoever (Bellingham, TAA, Kane etc). The thing is, I don’t give the slightest shit and neither should he. Work out what you think the most effective team is going to be and play that.

 

He’s been the manager for eight years. If that’s a genuine issue at this point then all this talk about changing the culture etc - the thing that I actually still back him for - is a failure too.

[Geordie Boyo]

5 minutes ago, mouldy_uk said:

Last few pages of this thread have been wild

 

you want sum! Cos I’ll give it ta ya! 

[Coffee_Johnny]

30 minutes ago, Rich said:

Why not just play Walker on the left so Trippier/Trent aren't totally nullified as an attacking fret?

 

Picky; Trenty, Stonesy, Guehi, Walky; Ricey, Judey; Coley, Fodey, Gordy; Harry

 

 

Canny.

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Mattoon said:

In hindsight I think there's an element of fear for Siuthgate here, if he did start with Gordon and Palmer instead of Foden and Saka and it didn't go to plan then you'd have to imagine the red shirt supporters, of which there are many, would be up in arms about not using his best players. I think the safety first mindset reaches further than just the tactics to the popular opinion, there's always been a "big club" bias to selection and this tournament is no different and it will always be to England's detriment. If you can't do it on the world stage then get off the pitch.

 

There is a feeling of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but at this point he may as well take the risk as he's in danger of having the worst tournament of his tenure.

 

Any sort of manager worth his salt should be picking the side he thinks will win, not the side he thinks will make him popular with the pundits. Maybe he genuinely believes not conceding goals gives us the best chance of a win. Tbh the way we've set up under him for the majority of his reign would suggest it.