Sempiternal Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, triggs said: Mad to win that many Champions Leagues while not being able to defend apparently Tons of bad players have won CLs tbf. He’s a good player but if you’re part of the Madrid machine it’s not really a good yardstick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said: Venables has been the best coach England have had in terms of the quality of football. They were adventurous and just went for it despite there being a couple of teams who were better. He knew exactly how to get the best from the players available. That England team had talent for sure but probably not as solid defensively. Such a lack of bravery too. I think that's the main ingredient you need being in that job as tactics are only going to do so much with the limited time they have with the players. Not critiquing Venables but he gets away with more than other managers have done. Euro 96 was one excellent performance, one good performance, a lucky win against a bad team, a draw against Switzerland which was the most they deserved and a penalty shoot-out win after a poor and lucky performance against Spain. Whilst the 2years of friendlies few were better than torturous. Sir Bobby was slaughtered for less. The football under Hoddle was better for about the same results. Edited July 14 by Jonas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 minutes ago, TheHoob said: Can we all agree to get rid of the following? - Southgate - "it's coming home" - Sweet Caroline - The England band Honestly feel like the only one that was still here this time was Southgate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBartoon Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 No Pedri and Gavi available and no Rodri for the 2nd half. It really was another missed opportunity. Hopefully that’s the end of Southgate, criminal that he never learnt from the Italy final Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 12 minutes ago, KaKa said: That's the whole point. If you're going to use him you put runners around him. The only such player in the squad is Gordon and he got 5 mins all tournament. He played a bunch of players with Kane that all want to come short and drop into similar areas. Eze can do it and so can Bowen......all 3 were misused by their underuse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 57 minutes ago, Segun Oluwaniyi said: From the outside, it is very funny to see the disconnect between Southgate's accomplishments and the way you English people talk about him.I've watched this team my whole life, and generally, they rarely play cohesive football and generally are not particularly good. Missing tournaments and crashing out early are nothing new to England, despite generally having strong talent. I understand some of the annoyance; I can see the football being played, but Southgate has turned England into consistently one of the best teams in the world with results better than any nation in same time frame. This was not case when he inherited the team. His time has passed at this point, anyway. Mainly because he’s not the one responsible for producing the players. Relative to the rest of the international teams, this is the strongest I’ve ever seen England. If Southgate does go then the performances won’t get worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 I can’t say I feel too disappointed as at no point in the tournament did we look a good team. If you knew nothing about the squads you would think we were a jammy minnow that somehow go to the final, but you knew weren’t actually going to win. I didn’t expect anything going into the game today, and as it turned out we could have lost by 3 or 4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilko Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 2 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: It's such an easy and obvious thing to say hut imagine us tonight under Ancelotti, or even Rafa. A team like Spain tonight are traditionally taught a lesson, they don't have the opportunity to do what they did, it's not good enough. I've seen a minimum of Rice, Bellingham, Pickford, Walker and Kane do the shithousing, tactical cuntery for their club sides brilliantly when in a spot but it was sorely missing tonight. It was Soft Touch Tampon FC and I have an awful feeling Gareth probably tells them not to do that kind of thing cos it's not the image he wants to project. Agree with your comment entirely that there's bugger all street smarts in the England side & when they can't/won't perform well (delete as appropriate) it sticks out like a sore thumb in a big knockout game like that we just watched. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, JoeyBartoon said: No Pedri and Gavi available and no Rodri for the 2nd half. It really was another missed opportunity. Hopefully that’s the end of Southgate, criminal that he never learnt from the Italy final Same thing with Kane again. The fucking oldest slowest CBS against Italy and he let Kane play in front of them. Horrible Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 I do think it'll be a case of be careful what you wish for and Southgate’s reputation will grow over time, but it's definitely time for a change. That was the match where is absolutely had to come together, should have, and didn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgk_lfc Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 31 minutes ago, Big Geordie said: We dropped off by 10 yards after Palmer scored. Down to the manager that - not the players? Spain was stunned by the equalizer. I couldn't believe England's tactics after that. Handed the initiative right back to Spain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 We won’t win with Rice. He’s fine but he is not a player who turns a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 I think Spain were made to look better than they are by every other big team other than Germany trying the Deschamps/Southgate approach of keeping it tight and trying to nick a goal. I know we're biased but it really is a joke that a player like Nico Williams can look so good in a tournament where we had a better player in the same position and he played 4 minutes. Williams will get another half a dozen goals next season for Bilbao, Gordon is twice the player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobsonsWonderland Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 In a time of 5 subs.. we could have went hard for 50 60 mins and rotated the forward line in each and every game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Honestly if Southgate has done such a good job, how many of the players England have has played at least as well as you’d expect - or even better (which would be impressive coaching?) I’ll go Pickford. That’s about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 minutes ago, Sempiternal said: Tons of bad players have won CLs tbf. He’s a good player but if you’re part of the Madrid machine it’s not really a good yardstick No bad players have won 6 though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 3 minutes ago, madras said: Eze can do it and so can Bowen......all 3 were misused by their underuse. Eze is another that doesn't really make runs behind. Bowen does though, agree there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Wullie said: I think Spain were made to look better than they are by every other big team other than Germany trying the Deschamps/Southgate approach of keeping it tight and trying to nick a goal. I know we're biased but it really is a joke that a player like Nico Williams can look so good in a tournament where we had a better player in the same position and he played 4 minutes. Williams will get another half a dozen goals next season for Bilbao, Gordon is twice the player. Yeah I like him but he’s not elite. Made him look good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 In sections of the media, the narrative will be how good Spain were as a deflection from negative takes on Southgate. Unlike Italy in Euro 2020, this was a good side that deserved the win and fair play to them for being brave and playing on the front foot. Having acknowledged that, the media narrative of showering praise on Spain is also a way of letting Southgate off the hook yet again. He was awful throughout the tournament and England played in spite of him. When I speak to fans from France, Spain, Italy, they feel England are underperforming under Southgate (interested to hear views on here too if anyone's reading). Even the Scots, Welsh and Irish I speak to think Southgate has wasted a generation. That's the only crumb of comfort I take from this final. We still have the core of an exciting squad and surely a new coach to release the shackles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 14 minutes ago, Sempiternal said: People love rice, and that’s fine. But when has he ever gripped a midfield in a big game. He doesn’t have it in him He's not a holding midfielder, essentially. No coincidence that Arteta - an infinitely superior manager than the FA bootlicker - has has him playing all owa the shop for Arsenal to great effect last season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Did Kane win a single header tonight? Genuinely felt like he lost everything in the air Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Ultimately it's all about how it feels. We were worse vs Italy and Croatia but it felt better than this. Southgate has built it up for us to knock him down. Tonight was horrible, I hated how that all unfolded. That 2nd goal was sickening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 The Gordon thing was such a travesty. Would have been so perfect playing the role Saka did, but on the left side. Would have been much more attacking down that side and is brilliant defensively. For his treatment alone this tournament, Southgate did not deserve to lift that cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempiternal Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Just now, toon25 said: He's not a holding midfielder, essentially. No coincidence that Arteta - an infinitely superior manager than the FA bootlicker - has has him playing all owa the shop for Arsenal to great effect last season I think he’s good. In a good team that’s dominant. But he can not turn a game when things are going against us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 13 minutes ago, TheHoob said: Can we all agree to get rid of the following? - Southgate - "it's coming home" - Sweet Caroline - The England band The fucking band, man. And, subsequent, seeing grown fucking men dressed in crusade costume. Distasteful, if not absolutely fucking lame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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