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The shape of the team - back to basics


ohmelads
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In only our last 3 games (since Parker came back):

 

Martins has played on the left.

Emre has played left wing and has been benched.

Edgar has made his debut at right-back.

Butt has played centre back.

Milner has played on the right, on the left and in central midfield.

Dyer has played up front, on the right, and in central midfield.

 

During all this the only midfield player who has not been moved once is Scott Parker.

 

That's a hell of a lot of changes to make in 3 games. We've been convincingly beaten in two of them.

 

Before Parker returned and everything went mad, it was all a lot more simple. We had wingers on the wings, forwards up front, a DM in defensive midfield and an AM in attacking midfield. Every week players like Martins, Sibierski, Milner, Emre, Butt and N'Zogbia were playing in the same position, positions they knew. We weren't playing great football (long time since we did that) but we were getting results and climbing up the table. The team kept a decent shape and the defence was also better for it.

 

Enter Parker and suddenly everybody has been shuffled around, players are playing all over the place in unfamiliar positions, the formation has been messed about with and the balance has all gone. We seem to no longer have a left side and players are starting to lose form.

 

We currently have no left-wingers or left-backs, we have a crisis on this left hand side. I would consider Parker for left back and (assuming Duff isn't fit) Luque for left wing. Call me mad, but Huntington and Emre just isn't working, neither look comfortable out there. With Ramage injured we now need Huntington in central defence anyway.

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Guest thompers

Sounds like Fred's fault to me. He appointed Roeder but picks the team himself, after all.

 

But surely he should use his skills to appoint a manager capable of picking the best team, instead of one that would rather change a winning formula?

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Sounds like Fred's fault to me. He appointed Roeder but picks the team himself, after all.

 

But surely he should use his skills to appoint a manager capable of picking the best team, instead of one that would rather change a winning formula?

 

Aye, I agree. What criteria would you suggest he use to be sure of selecting this manager? ;)

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In only our last 3 games (since Parker came back):

 

Martins has played on the left.

Emre has played left wing and has been benched.

Edgar has made his debut at right-back.

Butt has played centre back.

Milner has played on the right, on the left and in central midfield.

Dyer has played up front, on the right, and in central midfield.

 

During all this the only midfield player who has not been moved once is Scott Parker.

 

That's a hell of a lot of changes to make in 3 games. We've been convincingly beaten in two of them.

 

Before Parker returned and everything went mad, it was all a lot more simple. We had wingers on the wings, forwards up front, a DM in defensive midfield and an AM in attacking midfield. Every week players like Martins, Sibierski, Milner, Emre, Butt and N'Zogbia were playing in the same position, positions they knew. We weren't playing great football (long time since we did that) but we were getting results and climbing up the table. The team kept a decent shape and the defence was also better for it.

 

Enter Parker and suddenly everybody has been shuffled around, players are playing all over the place in unfamiliar positions, the formation has been messed about with and the balance has all gone. We seem to no longer have a left side and players are starting to lose form.

 

We currently have no left-wingers or left-backs, we have a crisis on this left hand side. I would consider Parker for left back and (assuming Duff isn't fit) Luque for left wing. Call me mad, but Huntington and Emre just isn't working, neither look comfortable out there. With Ramage injured we now need Huntington in central defence anyway.

 

Some good observations yes.

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In only our last 3 games (since Parker came back):

 

Martins has played on the left.

Emre has played left wing and has been benched.

Edgar has made his debut at right-back.

Butt has played centre back.

Milner has played on the right, on the left and in central midfield.

Dyer has played up front, on the right, and in central midfield.

 

During all this the only midfield player who has not been moved once is Scott Parker.

 

That's a hell of a lot of changes to make in 3 games. We've been convincingly beaten in two of them.

 

Before Parker returned and everything went mad, it was all a lot more simple. We had wingers on the wings, forwards up front, a DM in defensive midfield and an AM in attacking midfield. Every week players like Martins, Sibierski, Milner, Emre, Butt and N'Zogbia were playing in the same position, positions they knew. We weren't playing great football (long time since we did that) but we were getting results and climbing up the table. The team kept a decent shape and the defence was also better for it.

 

Enter Parker and suddenly everybody has been shuffled around, players are playing all over the place in unfamiliar positions, the formation has been messed about with and the balance has all gone. We seem to no longer have a left side and players are starting to lose form.

 

We currently have no left-wingers or left-backs, we have a crisis on this left hand side. I would consider Parker for left back and (assuming Duff isn't fit) Luque for left wing. Call me mad, but Huntington and Emre just isn't working, neither look comfortable out there. With Ramage injured we now need Huntington in central defence anyway.

 

Everton and Bolton away are never nailed-on wins, certainly not for us.

 

Can't help but feel that people are itching to find a new bandwagon to jump on. I might as easy just say that the return of Dyer has upset the team more than anything else in the past 3 games, but then I'd be speculating and looking for a scapegoat and people would say it was tosh because he's scored 2 goals.

 

Not necessarily saying you're wrong here, but we battered Spurs in his first game back and he was instrumental in the victory, it's fairly harsh to blame him for two games against big, powerful teams where we've been unlucky to come away empty-handed from both because of 4 goals from set-pieces (where not once Parker was at fault from either giving away the set piece or losing his man). It's not as though we've started playing absolutely shite football or anything like that, we looked excellent in spells today and Parker didn't do much wrong at all.

 

I know we're looking for reasons for the losses and people are loathe to blame luck/injuries, but both have played a massive role... away losses to Bolton and Everton are a regular thing for us, especially when we're missing so many important players.

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Sounds like Fred's fault to me. He appointed Roeder but picks the team himself, after all.

 

But surely he should use his skills to appoint a manager capable of picking the best team, instead of one that would rather change a winning formula?

 

Alex Ferguson changes winning formulas.

 

 

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I think there is definatley a place for Parker in the team, but he just has to be instructed on a role.  There is a point where Roeder is almost like Souness, just putting players in positions and letting them do as they please.  At some point, Luque has to be played just for the sake of balance to the team.  Roeder does do a lot of things similar to Souness, like holding grudges against players and playing others no matter what, which is most disturbing. 

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Everton and Bolton away are never nailed-on wins, certainly not for us.

 

Can't help but feel that people are itching to find a new bandwagon to jump on. I might as easy just say that the return of Dyer has upset the team more than anything else in the past 3 games, but then I'd be speculating and looking for a scapegoat and people would say it was tosh because he's scored 2 goals.

 

Not necessarily saying you're wrong here, but we battered Spurs in his first game back and he was instrumental in the victory, it's fairly harsh to blame him for two games against big, powerful teams where we've been unlucky to come away empty-handed from both because of 4 goals from set-pieces (where not once Parker was at fault from either giving away the set piece or losing his man). It's not as though we've started playing absolutely shite football or anything like that, we looked excellent in spells today and Parker didn't do much wrong at all.

 

I know we're looking for reasons for the losses and people are loathe to blame luck/injuries, but both have played a massive role... away losses to Bolton and Everton are a regular thing for us, especially when we're missing so many important players.

 

I'm not blaming Parker at all. In fact unlike many on here I rate him very highly. He hasn't let us down since he came back, but Roeder has changed the whole team around and made a host of players play out of position. Most importantly he has broken up the most promising central midfield partnership we've had for quite some time.

 

After the Spurs game many of us pointed out that, a good win though it was, there were glaring weaknesses on that left side, with two players (Emre and Huntington) playing out of position. I was annoyed to see Emre and Huntington on the left again today but not surprised to see that they struggled.

 

Unfortunately for Parker, the good player that he is, he came back to find Emre and Butt had formed a winning combination and IMO should have been used elsewhere in the team, perhaps at full back. But it seems his status in the team is too high, as I demonstrated in the first post that he is the only player not to have been shuffled around in recent games.

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Guest Knightrider

In only our last 3 games (since Parker came back):

 

Martins has played on the left.

Emre has played left wing and has been benched.

Edgar has made his debut at right-back.

Butt has played centre back.

Milner has played on the right, on the left and in central midfield.

Dyer has played up front, on the right, and in central midfield.

 

During all this the only midfield player who has not been moved once is Scott Parker.

 

That's a hell of a lot of changes to make in 3 games. We've been convincingly beaten in two of them.

 

Before Parker returned and everything went mad, it was all a lot more simple. We had wingers on the wings, forwards up front, a DM in defensive midfield and an AM in attacking midfield. Every week players like Martins, Sibierski, Milner, Emre, Butt and N'Zogbia were playing in the same position, positions they knew. We weren't playing great football (long time since we did that) but we were getting results and climbing up the table. The team kept a decent shape and the defence was also better for it.

 

Enter Parker and suddenly everybody has been shuffled around, players are playing all over the place in unfamiliar positions, the formation has been messed about with and the balance has all gone. We seem to no longer have a left side and players are starting to lose form.

 

We currently have no left-wingers or left-backs, we have a crisis on this left hand side. I would consider Parker for left back and (assuming Duff isn't fit) Luque for left wing. Call me mad, but Huntington and Emre just isn't working, neither look comfortable out there. With Ramage injured we now need Huntington in central defence anyway.

 

Everton and Bolton away are never nailed-on wins, certainly not for us.

 

Can't help but feel that people are itching to find a new bandwagon to jump on. I might as easy just say that the return of Dyer has upset the team more than anything else in the past 3 games, but then I'd be speculating and looking for a scapegoat and people would say it was tosh because he's scored 2 goals.

 

Not necessarily saying you're wrong here, but we battered Spurs in his first game back and he was instrumental in the victory, it's fairly harsh to blame him for two games against big, powerful teams where we've been unlucky to come away empty-handed from both because of 4 goals from set-pieces (where not once Parker was at fault from either giving away the set piece or losing his man). It's not as though we've started playing absolutely shite football or anything like that, we looked excellent in spells today and Parker didn't do much wrong at all.

 

I know we're looking for reasons for the losses and people are loathe to blame luck/injuries, but both have played a massive role... away losses to Bolton and Everton are a regular thing for us, especially when we're missing so many important players.

 

Two very good and different points of view.

 

For me the players have to take a big slice of blame for these two defeats because even with the changes they should be more than capable of at least performing which they haven't done, not to the standard they had set themselves in previous matches leading up to the festive season, anyway.

 

I'm not too down hearted because I expected 3 defeats from our 3 festive games... what I didn't expect was a sub-standard team performance in those matches and that's down to the players regardless of change for me.

 

Also, we have been extremely unlucky and while I'm loathe to use excuses, these things can't be denied and show the very thin line between success and failure.

 

Had Martins put that penalty away...

 

Had the push on Ramage been given as a foul...

 

All ifs and buts I know but then so is:

 

Had we left Parker out...

 

Not changed things...

 

Etc etc.

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Sounds like Fred's fault to me. He appointed Roeder but picks the team himself, after all.

 

But surely he should use his skills to appoint a manager capable of picking the best team, instead of one that would rather change a winning formula?

 

Alex Ferguson changes winning formulas.

 

Aye, he has Man Utd's squad aswell.

 

Knew the Roeder wankfest would capitulate after these games. Two more losses against Man Utd and Tottenham and people will return to the wrist-slitting.

 

Very, very predictable and the whole Roeder thing is very knee-jerk, whether opinions swing from good to bad. Not criticising Ohmelads here, i think he's spot on. It's the other Roeder thread - effectively the complete opposite to this one - that i believed to be knee-jerk.

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Guest thompers

Sounds like Fred's fault to me. He appointed Roeder but picks the team himself, after all.

 

But surely he should use his skills to appoint a manager capable of picking the best team, instead of one that would rather change a winning formula?

 

Aye, I agree. What criteria would you suggest he use to be sure of selecting this manager? ;)

 

The same criteria that Liverpool used when successfully appointing their last 2 managers should be suffice, don't you agree?

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Guest thompers

Sounds like Fred's fault to me. He appointed Roeder but picks the team himself, after all.

 

But surely he should use his skills to appoint a manager capable of picking the best team, instead of one that would rather change a winning formula?

 

Alex Ferguson changes winning formulas.

 

 

 

Yet rarely to a losing one...

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Sounds like Fred's fault to me. He appointed Roeder but picks the team himself, after all.

 

But surely he should use his skills to appoint a manager capable of picking the best team, instead of one that would rather change a winning formula?

 

Aye, I agree. What criteria would you suggest he use to be sure of selecting this manager? ;)

 

The same criteria that Liverpool used when successfully appointing their last 2 managers should be suffice, don't you agree?

 

what criteria was that ?

 

And what about their criteria before the last 2 appointments ?

 

 

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love the way Parker is to blame for us having no left hand side

 

 

 

I don't think Parker is to blame or being blamed, he's being mentioned because the changes have been made to fit him in.  I've got nothing against Parker other than his spin which I hate, he doesn't do it all of the time but he does do it far too often and slows the game right down, instead of us going on the quick break we allow opposition players more time to get back.

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The two bores/boars try to wreck another thread. :roll:

 

where is your sister these days ? I expect he will be back prediciting financial doom now we have lost a couple of games.

 

Anyway, I see we are level on points with Aston Villa and the great Martin O;Neill. Thats someway backwards they have gone since they won the European Cup 26 years ago and Ellis took over isn't it ?

 

 

 

 

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The two bores/boars try to wreck another thread. :roll:

 

where is your sister these days ? I expect he will be back prediciting financial doom now we have lost a couple of games.

 

 

 

bluesleep.gif

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