St James' Park

[SteV]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

There is an argument that Everton has a bigger fanbase than us

Don’t think I would agree with that argument, but not one I’d particularly want to get into either.

 

If they’re selling out this stadium every single week whilst continuing to be mediocre at best, then good luck to them. Tbf, I’d expect all established, historically big PL teams to be doing that (see West Ham).

[Dr. TC]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

There is an argument that Everton has a bigger fanbase than us

This is maybe true worldwide, but nowhere near true in terms of local support wanting to attend games: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1453507/local-fans-premier-league-clubs/#statisticContainer

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, SteV said:

Don’t think I would agree with that argument, but not one I’d particularly want to get into either.

 

If they’re selling out this stadium every single week whilst continuing to be mediocre at best, then good luck to them. Tbf, I’d expect all established, historically big PL teams to be doing that (see West Ham).

Everton aren't West Ham tbf - they're significantly bigger than them.  Everton's historical average gate ranks them as 7th (we're 5th if anyone is curious) - and that's with Goodison limiting their capacity for decades now.

2 minutes ago, Dr. TC said:

This is maybe true worldwide, but nowhere near true in terms of local support wanting to attend games: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1453507/local-fans-premier-league-clubs/#statisticContainer

That only tells you the proportion of their support which is local, not how big the local support is.

[SteV]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Everton aren't West Ham tbf - they're significantly bigger than them

Maybe historically, but nowadays it’s so easy for large London clubs to fill the ground. West Ham went from 35k to 62k no bother.

 

Anyway, as I say I don’t really want to get into it too much, as it’s all a bit ‘my dad’s bigger than your dad’.

 

Ourselves, Everton, West Ham all have very large fanbases, if obviously a step down from the global attraction of Man Utd and Liverpool.

[huss9]

2 hours ago, Thorpinho said:

Wasn’t sure where to post this, but does anyone on here go to Stack before games? If so, how early would a group need to go on Sunday to get in without a giant queue? Never bothered before but got visitors coming for game so was looking at options. Any info appreciated. 

last time i went there was no queue at all. an hour and a half before the game.

you'll stuggle to get a table though.

[Dr. TC]

22 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

 

That only tells you the proportion of their support which is local, not how big the local support is.

Yes, but all the online resources I could find quoted similar supporter numbers for us and Everton, so the proportions match. 

 

We clearly have a bigger local support as a one club city. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Dr. TC said:

Yes, but all the online resources I could find quoted similar supporter numbers for us and Everton, so the proportions match. 

 

We clearly have a bigger local support as a one club city. 

All arguable tbf mate - Liverpool is a much larger city, as is its catchment area.

[ponsaelius]

1 hour ago, SteV said:

Maybe historically, but nowadays it’s so easy for large London clubs to fill the ground. West Ham went from 35k to 62k no bother.

 

Anyway, as I say I don’t really want to get into it too much, as it’s all a bit ‘my dad’s bigger than your dad’.

 

Ourselves, Everton, West Ham all have very large fanbases, if obviously a step down from the global attraction of Man Utd and Liverpool.

 

Based on my own judgement when visiting and what I have read from their fans West Ham's supporter composition has changed quite a bit since the move. Would say at least half of that 27k jump is made up of tourists and more casual fans.

 

There's also a relatively small, but vocal number, who have stopped going regularly since the move.

 

Quite enjoyed going there as a one off, particularly as it was a nice summer day and I hadn't really explored the surrounding area before, but the thought of going to that ground every week would be soul destroying to me if I'd supported them my whole life.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 23:18 by ponsaelius

[Wolfcastle]

Everton were getting 13,000 a year before winning the championship in the 80s, a year they won the FA Cup and got 13,000 in the PL era.  That's lower than the standard dig at us when we were in the bottom half of the second divsion without a trophy for quarter of a century and at our all time lowest ebb.

We took more to the charity shield than Everton and Blackburn took combined a year earlier.

Cant make a case they're better supported than us at all. Fanbase has to manifest in gates at some point to have some basis in reality.

 

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Wolfcastle

[TheBrownBottle]

6 hours ago, Wolfcastle said:

Everton were getting 13,000 a year before winning the championship in the 80s, a year they won the FA Cup and got 13,000 in the PL era.  That's lower than the standard dig at us when we were in the bottom half of the second divsion without a trophy for quarter of a century and at our all time lowest ebb.

We took more to the charity shield than Everton and Blackburn took combined a year earlier.

Cant make a case they're better supported than us at all. Fanbase has to manifest in gates at some point to have some basis in reality.

 

 

 

 

Everton’s average gate has dipped below 20k only once since the Great War - in 83/84, when it dropped to just over 19k.  Which was the case for pretty much every club in that era.  

[Stifler]

8 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

All arguable tbf mate - Liverpool is a much larger city, as is its catchment area.

It’s not.

It might be larger, but not massively so. Considering Newcastle’s population statistics omits places that are clearly within the catchment area because of the break up of the different councils, it skews the figures massively.

I’ve done a calculation on the SSC forum in the past about it, and both cities are comparable.

 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Stifler

[Stifler]

I think people are looking at the wrong aspect over Everton's capacity.

Since they last got crowds as large as their stadium now, they have had a share a city with one of the country’s most successful clubs who have became a global giant. Meanwhile they have been stuck in a small stadium that hasn’t really allowed new fans in.

It is reasonable to ask the question ‘if they can reach those figures now?’

 

You also have to consider the fact though that just like us, they are not building a stadium just for the here and now. They are building one with the next 50-70 years in mind. Event attendances across the board are increasing, populations and urban area populations are increasing. Clubs may go under a period of success which would also attract fans.

 

I honestly think it doesn’t really matter to us about their new stadium, aside from looking at it and seeing what we would and wouldn’t want from it in our new stadium.

Personally, aside from it looking good in the skyline, I’m not a fan. I think once you get close to it, it’s rather bland without offering much more than what is on offer at most stadiums these days. I do believe that it could have been much more, and I think Everton have dropped a massive opportunity. I actually think sooner or later Liverpool will realise that they can’t do much more with Anfield and will revert back to plans to move across the road where they will follow in Man Utd’s footsteps and create a mega stadium, which in turn will take away all the other events Everton hope to host.

[Groundhog63]

8 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

All arguable tbf mate - Liverpool is a much larger city, as is its catchment area.

 

39 minutes ago, Stifler said:

It’s not.

It might be larger, but not massively so. Considering Newcastle’s population statistics omits places that are clearly within the catchment area because of the break up of the different councils, it skews the figures massively.

I’ve done a calculation on the SSC forum in the past about it, and both cities are comparable.

 

 

 

 

Depends what you're meaning by catchment area and the relevant criteria. 

If we're using Makematics then, for us, you have to include the North Sea. For Everton, and Liverpool, you have to factor in the Irish Sea which is smaller than the North Sea. More importantly the Irish Sea is attached to the land mass of Ireland who's population support anyone in Red or Green hoops. Everton get the dregs. 

 

[OpenC]

You don't have to factor in any seas unless you're a mackem clutching at straws  this concept of a perfectly circular catchment area from which it's reasonable to assume fans will flock is compromised in most ways at best, and it's way more complex in virtually all scenarios. Mackematics indeed

 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by OpenC

[OpenC]

You'd need as a bare minimum a Glory Hunter Modifier, a Rugby Area Coefficient, a Regional Wealth Adjustment, a How Many Clubs Calculation, a Nissan Back Shift Bearing. Even with these I'm not sure the Catchment Calc is any better than xG Maybe xAt for attendances will be next

 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by OpenC

[Groundhog63]

8 minutes ago, OpenC said:

You don't have to factor in any seas unless you're a mackem clutching at straws  this concept of a perfectly circular catchment area from which it's reasonable to assume fans will flock is compromised in most ways at best, and it's way more complex in virtually all scenarios. Mackematics indeed

 

 

 

 

True. Here's Liverpool's catchment area 

 

[Groundhog63]

Here's Man U's, including The Ashington Collective... 

[OpenC]

 bang on 

 

Where does the Isle of Man fall? Spurs glory hunters I reckon

[madras]

17 minutes ago, OpenC said:

You'd need as a bare minimum a Glory Hunter Modifier, a Rugby Area Coefficient, a Regional Wealth Adjustment, a How Many Clubs Calculation, a Nissan Back Shift Bearing. Even with these I'm not sure the Catchment Calc is any better than xG Maybe xAt for attendances will be next

 

 

 

But we do that as well. You leave the match and say to your mates "poor showing from their lot like, didn't sell out and gaps all over"

 

[OpenC]

Aye of course  what I'm against is the idea that there's some way to determine through science and maths how extensive those gaps should be

[Groundhog63]

35 minutes ago, OpenC said:

 bang on 

 

Where does the Isle of Man fall? Spurs glory hunters I reckon

 

Lewis Hamilton supports Arsenal, no? 

I don't know about Nigel Mansell, other than he is or was a plakka bizzie so he's probably a Fulham fan. 

[Wallsendmag]

11 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

There is an argument that Everton has a bigger fanbase than us

 

Don't think they're anywhere near us tbh. Last time they averaged more than us was in 1991/1992 (the season we almost got relegated to Division 3) and our historical average is higher than theirs.

[Whitley mag]

Everton’s only averaged over 50k once in their history, big club but think we have far greater potential crowd size wise.

[Wallsendmag]

Aye there's a good reason why they only went to 52k for their new stadium and we'll be looking at around the 70k mark.

[SteV]

2 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

Aye there's a good reason why they only went to 52k for their new stadium and we'll be looking at around the 70k mark.

That is a valid point. For all the talk of ‘hitting the sweet spot’ where you have a big crowd but still have demand (slightly) outstripping supply, we’re already at that capacity near enough.