Guest Magpiecn Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 None of the top 4 will buy owen.No one want to buy a player get injured consistently and risk.Even its just 9m.Actually,I think its ridiculous for Man U to buy him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Again, none of these players are as good as Owen so you are replacing him with vastly inferior ones. If he goes to Liverpool and I accept NE5's point that if that's what he wants we can't do much about it, then the players you lot are suggesting like cisse and pongolle are not adequate replacements for a world class finisher. As for martins, I don't think we'll win anything with him. He looks to me like a player who will score spectacular goals but be so inconsistent that we won't mount a challenge over a full season. If he's 22 he may learn more but I wonder if he's smart enough... If he's 28 this is the best it gets because he's peaked. Exactly. That is what I think too, and you have put it into words perfectly. Same fella said: Selling Owen and replacing him with second rate players like anelka or bellamy will ensure that that we are amongst the also rans before the season even starts. Is that what you think too? Has he put it into words perfectly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 As for martins, I don't think we'll win anything with him. He looks to me like a player who will score spectacular goals but be so inconsistent that we won't mount a challenge over a full season. If he's 22 he may learn more but I wonder if he's smart enough... If he's 28 this is the best it gets because he's peaked. And wee won't win anything if we keep peddling players who aren't the finished article. Sometimes you have to develop a player, to mould him. Especially those with something about them which even Martins' biggest critics can't deny the Nigerian has - otherwise he wouldn't have made such an impact first at Inter Milan and now at Newcastle, albeit a somewhat skewered impact. BTW all successful clubs have at least one player who blows hot and cold, who can be spectacular one week, disappointing the next, indeed these kind of plkayers can often be the difference because they can be so spectacular and out of the blue. Had Liverpool had Martins playing for them against AC Milan in the CL, that kind of unpredictable spectacular player could have been the difference. My LFC mate reckons they missed Garcia in that game who might not have ran as hard as Zenden or played as many accurate passes as Alonso but could have quite easily popped up with a 25-yard volley from out of the blue to seal it. Sorry but I'm not buying your "we'll never win anything with the likes of Martins". You overestimate the Premiership, where many games are so uninspiring, that moment of magic is often the difference. See the Spurs game away, Martins did naff all in general player but proved the difference. There are more games like that in the Premiership than any other type of game. As for Cup games, they are the Martins of competition, down to luck, the spectacular or just downright fate. Please... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacko Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 We really missed Garcia in that game. The whole season, in fact. Agree wholeheartedly, HTT. Players who produce that bit of magic are pretty rare, players who are magic in every game are rarer than rocking-horse shit. Woefully inconsistent as such players usually are, they're matchwinners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Again, none of these players are as good as Owen so you are replacing him with vastly inferior ones. If he goes to Liverpool and I accept NE5's point that if that's what he wants we can't do much about it, then the players you lot are suggesting like cisse and pongolle are not adequate replacements for a world class finisher. As for martins, I don't think we'll win anything with him. He looks to me like a player who will score spectacular goals but be so inconsistent that we won't mount a challenge over a full season. If he's 22 he may learn more but I wonder if he's smart enough... If he's 28 this is the best it gets because he's peaked. Exactly. That is what I think too, and you have put it into words perfectly. Same fella said: Selling Owen and replacing him with second rate players like anelka or bellamy will ensure that that we are amongst the also rans before the season even starts. Is that what you think too? Has he put it into words perfectly? good spot mate !!! No. Otherwise I would have highlighted it ....... FWIW..... I think where Martins falls down is his lack of composure, resulting in him missing the easier chances, the ones that are scored close to goal, where most goals are scored. By that very statement, it highlights his main weakness, the GOOD strikers ie the goalscorers not the supporting strikers which is what Bellamy is, are precisely that BECAUSE they score these goals, and they do it on a consistent basis BECAUSE they are good at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Well, we're aiming ultimately to get back up to the top four, and if you look at the top four clubs, they don't pick players who are crap for three games and produce in the fourth. Consistency is very important. Arguably that's what separates the top four from the rest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Well, we're aiming ultimately to get back up to the top four, and if you look at the top four clubs, they don't pick players who are crap for three games and produce in the fourth. Consistency is very important. Arguably that's what separates the top four from the rest. Absolutely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Well, we're aiming ultimately to get back up to the top four, and if you look at the top four clubs, they don't pick players who are crap for three games and produce in the fourth. Consistency is very important. Arguably that's what separates the top four from the rest. Well what would be the point in re-signing Bellamy? A player who's getting peddled from a top 4 club because he's not good enough for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Well, we're aiming ultimately to get back up to the top four, and if you look at the top four clubs, they don't pick players who are crap for three games and produce in the fourth. Consistency is very important. Arguably that's what separates the top four from the rest. Well what would be the point in re-signing Bellamy? A player who's getting peddled from a top 4 club because he's not good enough for them. strange, because he was good enough for a top 4 team on 3 other occasions. Its got nothing to do with the manager maybe getting it wrong perhaps ? The ironic thing is that I remember telling a Liverpool supporter on here that Cisse wasn't fit to lace Bellamy's boots, which is true, and he also played for a team that played in the top 4. I also said the same thing to a Liverpool fan, and a Villa fan about Baros. Its all about getting the best from your players, and playing them where they are best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Well, we're aiming ultimately to get back up to the top four, and if you look at the top four clubs, they don't pick players who are crap for three games and produce in the fourth. Consistency is very important. Arguably that's what separates the top four from the rest. Well what would be the point in re-signing Bellamy? A player who's getting peddled from a top 4 club because he's not good enough for them. strange, because he was good enough for a top 4 team on 3 other occasions. Its got nothing to do with the manager maybe getting it wrong perhaps ? The ironic thing is that I remember telling a Liverpool supporter on here that Cisse wasn't fit to lace Bellamy's boots, which is true, and he also played for a team that played in the top 4. I also said the same thing to a Liverpool fan, and a Villa fan about Baros. Its all about getting the best from your players, and playing them where they are best Yeah he was before Abramovich came and raised the stakes, the quality of the top 4 has risen massively since then, just because someone was good enough in 2004 under different circumstances it doesn't make them good enough now, he was the donkey for Alan Shearer and the partnership got him back to being one of the best strikers in the country, but Shearer isn't here anymore and Bellamy hasn't been as good since either. Btw Cisse wasn't good enough either which is why he was moved on. Which top 4 clubs is Bellamy good enough to get in the starting 11 of? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Well, we're aiming ultimately to get back up to the top four, and if you look at the top four clubs, they don't pick players who are crap for three games and produce in the fourth. Consistency is very important. Arguably that's what separates the top four from the rest. Well what would be the point in re-signing Bellamy? A player who's getting peddled from a top 4 club because he's not good enough for them. strange, because he was good enough for a top 4 team on 3 other occasions. Its got nothing to do with the manager maybe getting it wrong perhaps ? The ironic thing is that I remember telling a Liverpool supporter on here that Cisse wasn't fit to lace Bellamy's boots, which is true, and he also played for a team that played in the top 4. I also said the same thing to a Liverpool fan, and a Villa fan about Baros. Its all about getting the best from your players, and playing them where they are best Yeah he was before Abramovich came and raised the stakes, the quality of the top 4 has risen massively since then, just because someone was good enough in 2004 under different circumstances it doesn't make them good enough now, he was the donkey for Alan Shearer and the partnership got him back to being one of the best strikers in the country, but Shearer isn't here anymore and Bellamy hasn't been as good since either. Btw Cisse wasn't good enough either which is why he was moved on. Which top 4 clubs is Bellamy good enough to get in the starting 11 of? Newcastle United, 3 times. His starts for Liverpool have also been posted. I don't understand the point you are making here mate, would you say Berbatov and Tevez aren't good enough to get into the starting 11 of a top 4 team as they have not done it yet ? On the basis that he would improve the team and the squad / or give alternatives to it, and has proved previously he was a key player for a team that qualified for the Champions League, and got to the 2nd stage, I don't see what there is to debate about on a footballing level, to be honest. Simple fact is mate, there are people who put personalities in the way of judgements, people have done it with Shepherd, and they are now doing it with Bellamy too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Well, we're aiming ultimately to get back up to the top four, and if you look at the top four clubs, they don't pick players who are crap for three games and produce in the fourth. Consistency is very important. Arguably that's what separates the top four from the rest. Well what would be the point in re-signing Bellamy? A player who's getting peddled from a top 4 club because he's not good enough for them. he is good enough for a top four side, but he's not good enough to transform liverpool from a top four side to one challenging for the title. they need to bring in extra quality in the forward areas to push on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Well, we're aiming ultimately to get back up to the top four, and if you look at the top four clubs, they don't pick players who are crap for three games and produce in the fourth. Consistency is very important. Arguably that's what separates the top four from the rest. Well what would be the point in re-signing Bellamy? A player who's getting peddled from a top 4 club because he's not good enough for them. strange, because he was good enough for a top 4 team on 3 other occasions. Its got nothing to do with the manager maybe getting it wrong perhaps ? The ironic thing is that I remember telling a Liverpool supporter on here that Cisse wasn't fit to lace Bellamy's boots, which is true, and he also played for a team that played in the top 4. I also said the same thing to a Liverpool fan, and a Villa fan about Baros. Its all about getting the best from your players, and playing them where they are best Yeah he was before Abramovich came and raised the stakes, the quality of the top 4 has risen massively since then, just because someone was good enough in 2004 under different circumstances it doesn't make them good enough now, he was the donkey for Alan Shearer and the partnership got him back to being one of the best strikers in the country, but Shearer isn't here anymore and Bellamy hasn't been as good since either. Btw Cisse wasn't good enough either which is why he was moved on. Which top 4 clubs is Bellamy good enough to get in the starting 11 of? Newcastle United, 3 times. His starts for Liverpool have also been posted. I don't understand the point you are making here mate, would you say Berbatov and Tevez aren't good enough to get into the starting 11 of a top 4 team as they have not done it yet ? On the basis that he would improve the team and the squad / or give alternatives to it, and has proved previously he was a key player for a team that qualified for the Champions League, and got to the 2nd stage, I don't see what there is to debate about on a footballing level, to be honest. Simple fact is mate, there are people who put personalities in the way of judgements, people have done it with Shepherd, and they are now doing it with Bellamy too. But like Cisse, Benitez views Bellamy as not good enough. My point is that you seem to view Martins as not good enough even though he hasn't been used properly since he's been here, yet seem happy to use that same excuse as to why Bellamy hasn't been good enough for Liverpool, after all Martins had a better season for us than Bellamy had for Liverpool. I can see both sides of the argument in that Bellamy will be consistent but Martins will create something out of nothing, for that reason I would keep and play both in a 4-3-3 formation like Allardyce used at Bolton, my only problem with it is that the club will look stupid in all of it. I'm not sure what comparison you're trying to make with Berbatov and Tevez as they haven't been at a top 4 club to get the boot from yet, both are clearly good enough too tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Well, we're aiming ultimately to get back up to the top four, and if you look at the top four clubs, they don't pick players who are crap for three games and produce in the fourth. Consistency is very important. Arguably that's what separates the top four from the rest. Well what would be the point in re-signing Bellamy? A player who's getting peddled from a top 4 club because he's not good enough for them. strange, because he was good enough for a top 4 team on 3 other occasions. Its got nothing to do with the manager maybe getting it wrong perhaps ? The ironic thing is that I remember telling a Liverpool supporter on here that Cisse wasn't fit to lace Bellamy's boots, which is true, and he also played for a team that played in the top 4. I also said the same thing to a Liverpool fan, and a Villa fan about Baros. Its all about getting the best from your players, and playing them where they are best Yeah he was before Abramovich came and raised the stakes, the quality of the top 4 has risen massively since then, just because someone was good enough in 2004 under different circumstances it doesn't make them good enough now, he was the donkey for Alan Shearer and the partnership got him back to being one of the best strikers in the country, but Shearer isn't here anymore and Bellamy hasn't been as good since either. Btw Cisse wasn't good enough either which is why he was moved on. Which top 4 clubs is Bellamy good enough to get in the starting 11 of? Newcastle United, 3 times. His starts for Liverpool have also been posted. I don't understand the point you are making here mate, would you say Berbatov and Tevez aren't good enough to get into the starting 11 of a top 4 team as they have not done it yet ? On the basis that he would improve the team and the squad / or give alternatives to it, and has proved previously he was a key player for a team that qualified for the Champions League, and got to the 2nd stage, I don't see what there is to debate about on a footballing level, to be honest. Simple fact is mate, there are people who put personalities in the way of judgements, people have done it with Shepherd, and they are now doing it with Bellamy too. But like Cisse, Benitez views Bellamy as not good enough. My point is that you seem to view Martins as not good enough even though he hasn't been used properly since he's been here, yet seem happy to use that same excuse as to why Bellamy hasn't been good enough for Liverpool, after all Martins had a better season for us than Bellamy had for Liverpool. I can see both sides of the argument in that Bellamy will be consistent but Martins will create something out of nothing, for that reason I would keep and play both in a 4-3-3 formation like Allardyce used at Bolton, my only problem with it is that the club will look stupid in all of it. I'm not sure what comparison you're trying to make with Berbatov and Tevez as they haven't been at a top 4 club to get the boot from yet, both are clearly good enough too tbh. I'm not. How should Martins be used ? Is he a goalscorer or a support striker ? He may be better alongside a better partner, we will see, but I don;t think he is a good finisher of the type of chances that good goalscorers need to be good at taking. I think Bellamy is clearly good enough for a top 4 team, just as Tevez and Berbatov, and he;s proved it !!! Johnny has said it well, if anything, he may not be good enough for a top team, but I'm not so sure about that. Martins played more regularly for us than Bellamy played for Liverpool, but I would rather have Bellamy in my team than Martins, I think he is more consistent will give more over a season than martins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Well, we're aiming ultimately to get back up to the top four, and if you look at the top four clubs, they don't pick players who are crap for three games and produce in the fourth. Consistency is very important. Arguably that's what separates the top four from the rest. Well what would be the point in re-signing Bellamy? A player who's getting peddled from a top 4 club because he's not good enough for them. strange, because he was good enough for a top 4 team on 3 other occasions. Its got nothing to do with the manager maybe getting it wrong perhaps ? The ironic thing is that I remember telling a Liverpool supporter on here that Cisse wasn't fit to lace Bellamy's boots, which is true, and he also played for a team that played in the top 4. I also said the same thing to a Liverpool fan, and a Villa fan about Baros. Its all about getting the best from your players, and playing them where they are best Yeah he was before Abramovich came and raised the stakes, the quality of the top 4 has risen massively since then, just because someone was good enough in 2004 under different circumstances it doesn't make them good enough now, he was the donkey for Alan Shearer and the partnership got him back to being one of the best strikers in the country, but Shearer isn't here anymore and Bellamy hasn't been as good since either. Btw Cisse wasn't good enough either which is why he was moved on. Which top 4 clubs is Bellamy good enough to get in the starting 11 of? Newcastle United, 3 times. His starts for Liverpool have also been posted. I don't understand the point you are making here mate, would you say Berbatov and Tevez aren't good enough to get into the starting 11 of a top 4 team as they have not done it yet ? On the basis that he would improve the team and the squad / or give alternatives to it, and has proved previously he was a key player for a team that qualified for the Champions League, and got to the 2nd stage, I don't see what there is to debate about on a footballing level, to be honest. Simple fact is mate, there are people who put personalities in the way of judgements, people have done it with Shepherd, and they are now doing it with Bellamy too. But like Cisse, Benitez views Bellamy as not good enough. My point is that you seem to view Martins as not good enough even though he hasn't been used properly since he's been here, yet seem happy to use that same excuse as to why Bellamy hasn't been good enough for Liverpool, after all Martins had a better season for us than Bellamy had for Liverpool. I can see both sides of the argument in that Bellamy will be consistent but Martins will create something out of nothing, for that reason I would keep and play both in a 4-3-3 formation like Allardyce used at Bolton, my only problem with it is that the club will look stupid in all of it. I'm not sure what comparison you're trying to make with Berbatov and Tevez as they haven't been at a top 4 club to get the boot from yet, both are clearly good enough too tbh. I'm not. How should Martins be used ? Is he a goalscorer or a support striker ? He may be better alongside a better partner, we will see, but I don;t think he is a good finisher of the type of chances that good goalscorers need to be good at taking. I think Bellamy is clearly good enough for a top 4 team, just as Tevez and Berbatov, and he;s proved it !!! Johnny has said it well, if anything, he may not be good enough for a top team, but I'm not so sure about that. Martins played more regularly for us than Bellamy played for Liverpool, but I would rather have Bellamy in my team than Martins, I think he is more consistent will give more over a season than martins. Martins is a support striker who plays off a big man up top, he doesn't run the channels well as Inter always played with excellent overlapping fullbacks who would get down the line, his link up play was better as he had technically better players around him who were capable of playing a pass and move game, if you watch him when we attack and someone else has the ball he usually drops to the edge of the box leaving the out and out goalscorer to get to the front post. As I said earlier Bellamy has the advantage as he's consistently at a good level (when he was here anyway) Martins on the other hand has his good and bad games, when he's bad he's invisible but when he's good he's a more dangerous player than Bellamy IMO, if Big Sam is as good at getting the best out of players as some on here suggest then it'll be interesting to see how he does under him. Btw you say Bellamy didn't play that much for Liverpool but Martins had a pretty thankless task here with all the long balls we fired at him last season. Anyway, next season I'd be more than happy to see Bellamy and Martins play either side of Viduka, I think it would work well too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Luque Posted June 10, 2007 Share Posted June 10, 2007 Bellamy Martins Viduka If Owen leaves I would definitly be open to this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sittingontheball Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Martins has definite show pony traits like say Defoe, but I think he's worth another half a season at least. If he continues to blow hot (spectacular) and cold (invisible), then get rid. If he were half a step slower and couldn't jump as high, I would say get rid now. Fast players need direct play and direct play is not what we had with Scott Parker. Long punts toward midgets do not count as direct play btw. If he suits SA's plans, he's done enough to be worth another go. Scoring goals is a funny one because you have people like Andy Johnson and Lampard who score loads of "lucky" deflections. As long as they keep going in though, you can't complain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Bellamy Martins Viduka If Owen leaves I would definitly be open to this No width iyam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Already?!!! Curbs you poor barsteward ... you're toast! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=476148&in_page_id=1779&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=picbox&ct=5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSG Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I heard on the radio this evening someone say that after last week's game, that Bellamy had thrown his shirt on the floor in front of Curbishley and said that he was worse that Souness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chief Bluntasnot Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 What a tedious fucker, I really hope he gets a career ending injury Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I would fucking love it if Brum beat them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliMag Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 I heard on the radio this evening someone say that after last week's game, that Bellamy had thrown his shirt on the floor in front of Curbishley and said that he was worse that Souness. The ultimate insult. I'd love WHam to go down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olliemort Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I heard on the radio this evening someone say that after last week's game, that Bellamy had thrown his shirt on the floor in front of Curbishley and said that he was worse that Souness. I Fucking love it!!!! :laugh:javascript:void(0); Laughs seriously no club should ever sign the wank again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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