Roeder - simply not good enough?

[Guest Gemmill]

I don't think we should sack him as it sets us on the cycle again, but he should never have got the job, and he's not gonna take us anywhere.  "Steadying the ship" equates to "ensuring that we remain average" as far as I'm concerned - where's the ambition/what's the point in that?

[Skirge]

At least he did not buy just for the sake of it, he wanted only top players but that has its own problems, we are no longer an attractive club to top players and Fred dragging his heels means Gleen gets very little of what he wants.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don't think we should sack him as it sets us on the cycle again, but he should never have got the job, and he's not gonna take us anywhere.  "Steadying the ship" equates to "ensuring that we remain average" as far as I'm concerned - where's the ambition/what's the point in that?

 

This is my gut feeling as well, but I do think too many changes of manager in a short time can be harmful. I would be in favour of bringing in a top class manager with a proven record of improving teams, winning titles etc, but there aren't many around.

 

It's a difficult position, it's just a shame we don't have someone better than Fred to get us out of it.

[Slugsy]

I don't think we should sack him as it sets us on the cycle again, but he should never have got the job, and he's not gonna take us anywhere.  "Steadying the ship" equates to "ensuring that we remain average" as far as I'm concerned - where's the ambition/what's the point in that?

 

Totally agree

[Yorkie]

Players that have improved gradually and/or dramatically this season:

 

Steven Taylor  Taylor hasn't improved beyond how he was under Souness if you ask me. Look at the first part of this bit, it says this season. Taylor was rubbish at the start of the season, now he is back to his usual self.

Nolberto Solano  You do realize that Solano was good before Roeder don't you? Shit at the start of the season, but has adapted to a relatively new role, with this club anyway, and has come on in leaps and bounds.

Nicky Butt  He was pretty good last season for Birmingham IMO.  He was shit under Souness though admittedly. Pretty good for Birmingham. He was abysmal. This one is beyond argument tbh, Butt has improved dramatically.

James Milner  He has improved this season, yes. Yup.

Kieron Dyer  Improved?  He's the same player he always was.  Just back from injury No he's not. He played upfront about four times in his Newcastle career before this season. And now, he has more effect on the game and works better with the striker(s).

Antoine Sibierski  Had a run of games where he wasn't shit.  Now that he's settled in, he pretty much is again Again, beyond argument. He's been significantly better than what he was at City, absolutely no question. He scored 11 goals at City in four years there. He's scored 8 here in half a season here.

Obafemi Martins  Really?  From his days at Inter, he has actually improved? Was a bit rubbish at the start of the season. Now is back to his 'usual self'. And, i think he maybe is a better player than what he was at Inter. Take a look at his seasonal goal tallies for Inter Milan, and compare it to this season. He's never scored 14 goals in a season before.

 

 

 

What i feel we should do is:

 

• Let him see out his contract, unless something goes dramatically wrong within the next two years
  
• He's a capable manager, unlike Souness, so he warrants some time given
  
• Allow him this summer to properly build his squad; give him another chance in the transfer market
  

 

The list is pretty much the same thing written differently three times.  ... And?

[Cronky]

I don't see that anyone could have done much better than Roeder. He didn't inherit a great side, he hasn't been given mountains of cash to spend, and we've had a lot of bad luck with injuries. Mid-table is as much as we could expect.

[Baggio]

Milner is no better this season than he was at Villa.

[Northern Monkey]

I don't see that anyone could have done much better than Roeder. He didn't inherit a great side, he hasn't been given mountains of cash to spend, and we've had a lot of bad luck with injuries. Mid-table is as much as we could expect.

 

He could have done better by not wasting the money he DID have, by not being tacticaly inept, and not talking a load of shite.

[Slugsy]

I don't see that anyone could have done much better than Roeder. He didn't inherit a great side, he hasn't been given mountains of cash to spend, and we've had a lot of bad luck with injuries. Mid-table is as much as we could expect.

 

....and not talking a load of s****.

 

What do you mean?  We're signing Gareth Bale you know!

[Northern Monkey]

I don't see that anyone could have done much better than Roeder. He didn't inherit a great side, he hasn't been given mountains of cash to spend, and we've had a lot of bad luck with injuries. Mid-table is as much as we could expect.

 

....and not talking a load of s****.

 

What do you mean?  We're signing Gareth Bale you know!

 

Ha ha! And if we did, he'd probably put him in goal.

[Ally]

Kieron Dyer  Improved?  He's the same player he always was.  Just back from injury No he's not. He played upfront about four times in his Newcastle career before this season. And now, he has more effect on the game and works better with the striker(s).

 

Four times? Not having that, I can think of more off the top of my head over his 8 years here.

 

Doesn't have any effect on game either IMO, was good in his first couple of games back but now he's back to usual Dyer who runs around doing nothing. Only scored 4 this season, hardly groundbreaking.

 

[Yorkie]

Was just an exaggeration. He's not played there regularly like he has done this season.

[Ally]

Alright, not having a go like. Seems i'm the only one around here who thinks Dyer is rubbish then, judging by the lack of responses.

[Slugsy]

 

Alright, not having a go like. Seems i'm the only one around here who thinks Dyer is rubbish then, judging by the lack of responses.

 

As a striker, I agree - he aint a striker, as shown on Saturday.

[Yorkie]

Alright, not having a go like. Seems i'm the only one around here who thinks Dyer is rubbish then, judging by the lack of responses.

 

Aye, i feel that what you say about Dyer is a load of exaggerated nonsense tbh.

[Geordie Boot Boy]

What i feel we should do is:

 

• Let him see out his contract, unless something goes dramatically wrong within the next two years
  
• He's a capable manager, unlike Souness, so he warrants some time given
  
• Allow him this summer to properly build his squad; give him another chance in the transfer market
  

 

The list is pretty much the same thing written differently three times. 

... And?

 

• It seems like a waste of time writing the same thing out three times worded differently.
  
• Writing the same thing out three times but wording it slightly differently seems like a waste of time to me.
  
• To me, writing the same thing out three times is temporally wasteful.  Even if the wording is slightly altered each time.
  

 

 

Don't have time to discuss any of the other stuff properly but I think:

 

Butt did do quite well at Birmingham,

 

Dyer has not been improved by Roeder to be a better player than he always was,

 

Milner's improvement has been in spite of his treatment by Roeder,

 

Taylor has had just as long a spell under Roeder playing poorly as he has playing well,

 

Martins was always going to be a good player but just needed settling time (no extra special coaching required),

 

Solano has not been improved by Roeder to be a better player than he was (he has adapted well to RB though),

 

and Sibierski did well at first but is now s*** again.  If it were Roeder's coaching that has helped his play, presumably, his level of performance should be currently improving, not declining.

[Rich]

Well, another home game went by when our only visible tactics seemed to be (again) aiming for Milner from Shay's kicks and then a brief period in the second half where Milner and N'Zogbia switched. We also looked better from corners than we have done for a while. Apart from that, things just seem to be left to curdle. For example, Parker and Butt being unable to decide what role to play... Milner thinking that running at his fullback and attempting a cross is ALWAYS the best thing to do, Taylor thinking that passing to a double-marked N'Zogbia (tight to the byline) is a good option... Bramble and Gooch being shit-scared to bring the ball out of defence and play a simple forward pass... Given constantly clanging it upfield to nobody in particular... why Dyer never gets close to Martins for flick-downs and why even though we aim for Milner from the 'keeper, nobody gets near him to collect a knock-down, etc.

 

Things like this should surely be gradually dying out and being coached, but they don't seem to be and the football we've played this season isn't as far removed from Souness-stuff as a lot of people seem to think. He's hardly brought us on leaps and bounds since Souness left, which is starting to get very worrying after a year.

[Guest alex]

To be fair to Bramble and 'the Gooch', there weren't a lot of options available to them when they were in possession of the ball.

[Ally]

Alright, not having a go like. Seems i'm the only one around here who thinks Dyer is rubbish then, judging by the lack of responses.

 

Aye, i feel that what you say about Dyer is a load of exaggerated nonsense tbh.

 

Don't see what he brings to the team at all, apart from pace. But if theres pace and no footballing ability then its pointless.

[Rich]

Aye, but countless times there was opportunity to take it forward a few yards, cause someone to break free from the "two banks of four" to close them down and then pass the ball to the freed-up team-mate. It's fairly basic stuff, I would reckon.

 

A lot of goals at the better clubs come from moves that are initiated by a centre-half carrying the ball into the usual open space in front of him (beyond the opposition striker/strikers) and causing an opposition midfielder to have to close him down, before either (rarely) continuing his run or playing a simple ball into a midfielder who now has more space to work in.

 

The way we force our centre-backs to play (whether it be the crowd, our reputation or the coaching) is that they are too fearful of making a big rick and losing the ball and then being caught-out, instead of using them as an occasional platform to build attacks from. There were many, many occasions on Saturday where Titus or Oguchi could have taken some extra touches and looked for a simple ball, instead of stalling then attempting a far more difficult pass. Over the season at SJP I'd go so far as to say dozens and dozens.

 

I do accept that it's a more risky strategy, especially when neither of them are exactly technically wonderful, but I also strongly believe that it's a tactic that would lead to us breaking more teams down at SJP as we force them to break free from the 4-4/4-1-4

 

When teams like 'Boro come and man-mark every single one of our front-six then more onus is placed on the fullbacks and the centre-halves to drive us forward. Taylor and Solano got forward a fair bit (even though Nobby's right foot was off-colour and Taylor was obviously coming inside a lot), but I really think that at this level our central defenders should be able to offer more than hopeful punts forward every time they have it.

 

Sometimes it's about making your options, from what I see. People slate Parker because he has to move around on the ball a lot when he collects it from the defenders, but this is often because he has an opponent in very close proximity to him and not many options ahead of him (the same argument you've just made for the defence.) I do agree with those that say he often could release the ball faster, but he would improve a hell of a lot if he was given the ball in better areas from Titus/Gooch, or if one of them committed a midfielder towards them before releasing it.

[Guest alex]

Looking at Onyewu I'd say, good defender though he may turn out to be, he'll never be a 'footballing centre-half'.

[junkhead]

Aye, but countless times there was opportunity to take it forward a few yards, cause someone to break free from the "two banks of four" to close them down and then pass the ball to the freed-up team-mate. It's fairly basic stuff, I would reckon.

 

A lot of goals at the better clubs come from moves that are initiated by a centre-half carrying the ball into the usual open space in front of him (beyond the opposition striker/strikers) and causing an opposition midfielder to have to close him down, before either (rarely) continuing his run or playing a simple ball into a midfielder who now has more space to work in.

 

The way we force our centre-backs to play (whether it be the crowd, our reputation or the coaching) is that they are too fearful of making a big rick and losing the ball and then being caught-out, instead of using them as an occasional platform to build attacks from. There were many, many occasions on Saturday where Titus or Oguchi could have taken some extra touches and looked for a simple ball, instead of stalling then attempting a far more difficult pass. Over the season at SJP I'd go so far as to say dozens and dozens.

 

I do accept that it's a more risky strategy, especially when neither of them are exactly technically wonderful, but I also strongly believe that it's a tactic that would lead to us breaking more teams down at SJP as we force them to break free from the 4-4/4-1-4

 

When teams like 'Boro come and man-mark every single one of our front-six then more onus is placed on the fullbacks and the centre-halves to drive us forward. Taylor and Solano got forward a fair bit (even though Nobby's right foot was off-colour and Taylor was obviously coming inside a lot), but I really think that at this level our central defenders should be able to offer more than hopeful punts forward every time they have it.

 

Sometimes it's about making your options, from what I see. People slate Parker because he has to move around on the ball a lot when he collects it from the defenders, but this is often because he has an opponent in very close proximity to him and not many options ahead of him (the same argument you've just made for the defence.) I do agree with those that say he often could release the ball faster, but he would improve a hell of a lot if he was given the ball in better areas from Titus/Gooch, or if one of them committed a midfielder towards them before releasing it.

agree with this.. but i think it's not the CBs who should carry out the attacks.. as i've said before, the fact that we don't have a decent full back (apart from Nobby) this season is shocking..

i think we have a fairly good squad and a two good fullbacks would improve not only the defence, but mostly our midfield play. For example Emre won't have to constantly get back to start an attack, the wingers will have more support and will be able to cut inside a lot more thus creating more chances for the strikers..