Roeder - simply not good enough?

[Mick]

pointless argument, we've got him for another season minimum

 

can't anyone see the parallells with robson when he came...he'll stabilise things for a few seasons before anything changes, only difference is robson had it within him to take the next step and get us challenging for europe - i don't believe roedebot has this quality to do that

 

i also hope we don't just dispense with roedebot in the manner we did with robson - the club is crying out for a director of football to oversee things at the club, and for me he's be a good candidate

 

What makes Roeder a good candidate for director of football?

[OzzieMandias]

pointless argument, we've got him for another season minimum

 

can't anyone see the parallells with robson when he came...he'll stabilise things for a few seasons before anything changes, only difference is robson had it within him to take the next step and get us challenging for europe - i don't believe roedebot has this quality to do that

 

i also hope we don't just dispense with roedebot in the manner we did with robson - the club is crying out for a director of football to oversee things at the club, and for me he's be a good candidate

 

What makes Roeder a good candidate for director of football?

 

Was wondering the same thing. He certainly hasn't proved himself to be any kind of operator in the transfer market, and that's a crucial part of the job. And would he be any good at holding his corner against interference from Fat Fred? I'm doubtful.

[NUFC06]

I voted replace next season because Roeder showed on many occasions that he is just average manager and if he stays our manager we will be average team forever.He just dont have the qualities, the abilities and the knowledge to be top manager.

Although i must admit that if there is no proper candidat for the job i'll stick with Roeder

This club needs to hire top manager for once and for all

 

Bobby Robson,Alan Shearer,Marcelo Lippi,Carlo Ancheloti,Hector Cuper

[Guest s0ftcore]

Just a random thought but I wouldn't mind having Keegan back. 

 

At least with him around, you can expect the ball on the ground, slick attacking football and he's really passionate and maybe that could rub off to the players.

 

But I think Roeder should stay for next season. Unambitious? Yes. But right now we need the club stable before anybody takes it to the next stage. If he does stay till end of next season, then I really hope he can plug the gaps during the 2 transfer windows.

 

Gooch was a decent signing, but we need fullbacks now so I'm hoping he addresses that problem at the end of this season

[jackyboy]

I said when Roeder was appointed that it was the same situation as when McLeish got the job at Rangers.    Previous managers had done all the money in, no decent manager would take the job knowing that the money required to reshape the side was not available, so, lets offer the job to Roeder/ McLeish, they will be so thrilled they will accept the job on any terms. We make very little money available just enough to avoid relegation  and after a couple of seasons we will sack them.

 

Takes the spotlight off the previous cock ups made by the chairman and gives the club a couple of years to rebuild financially, then here we go again.

 

We all know that FF is planning for his knight in shining armour (AS) to come galloping around the corner,  Shearer will come in to take over a mediocre side whos fans have had all ambitions and high expectations sucked out of them, he will be given a load of money to spend and  everyone will be on cloud nine. FF will be a hero

[junkhead]

there's no way out.. Roeder won't go, Shepherd won't sell

can we do something about this?

we can fight them

[Delima]

I would like Roeder to go, but I would want the board to find a replacement first.

[Howaythelads]

He really is an average manager, not good enough at all.

 

BUT, I do think he's done a decent job to recover some of the Souness mess. Although his legacy still lives on with some of his signings, we're better than we were under him.

 

Agree on the boring count though, I don't know how he can inspire anything in the dressing room. A 2 minute interview bores the bollocks off me. Infact, based on performances on the pitch he doesn't inspire them at all.

 

Yup.

[mrmojorisin75]

pointless argument, we've got him for another season minimum

 

can't anyone see the parallells with robson when he came...he'll stabilise things for a few seasons before anything changes, only difference is robson had it within him to take the next step and get us challenging for europe - i don't believe roedebot has this quality to do that

 

i also hope we don't just dispense with roedebot in the manner we did with robson - the club is crying out for a director of football to oversee things at the club, and for me he's be a good candidate

 

What makes Roeder a good candidate for director of football?

 

Was wondering the same thing. He certainly hasn't proved himself to be any kind of operator in the transfer market, and that's a crucial part of the job. And would he be any good at holding his corner against interference from Fat Fred? I'm doubtful.

 

he was academy director to begin with and has been involved in signing and developing some if not all of the young players we all currently laud as our future - if none of it was to do with him then tell me who it was and make THEM director of football

 

his record in the transfer market is debatable in my opinion - i think there's a strong argument to suggest he can spot a good player but isn't necessarily the best at getting them to play well in a team...he was the ONLY person that saw anything in sibierski, pushed for martins when many people wanted kuyt (i happen to think we did better out of those 2 deals) and the duff/rossi signings should have succeeded but didn't due to a number of circumstances, some roeders fault some not

 

you have to factor in the limitations on fundings he's fighting against as well - for example he obviously see's a problem at LB and with no money to spend brought in bernard to see if he could regain his former pomp, he couldn't....i imagine if he'd had 5m to spend it'd have been used?

 

if a director of football has the remit of finding players for the club and overseeing the overall structure of training/development of youth/reserves like to hear a decent argument against roeder because his shortcomings as a manager don't actually bear a great deal of relevance to the subject

 

suppose it's like saying all great scouts should be great football team managers 'cause they can spot a player, they're not....

 

and by the way when i say argument against roeder i don't mean "he's not as good as the bloke at ajax" type pish 'cause no-one with any semblance of continental/international reputation in that field would touch NUFC with a shitty stick due to our chairman, fact

 

 

 

discuss

[Delima]

The Journal

 

The part I highlighted is very worrying. How can a manager not even speak to a potential transfer target?

 

 

Let's not get physical, lads

 

Mar 3 2007

 

By Stuart Rayner, The Journal

 

 

Mark Viduka

 

Glenn Roeder has warned his central defenders not to try and outmuscle Mark Viduka today.

 

The Londoner is a well-known admirer of the Australian striker, who he tried to sign in the August transfer window. A deal failed to go through late on deadline day, so Viduka will line up at St James's Park this afternoon in the red of Middlesbrough rather than the black-and-white of Newcastle United.

 

The former Celtic and Leeds United forward is one half of the Premiership's in-form strikeforce. Viduka has scored nine goals in his last 11 starts, while Ayegbeni Yakubu has 12 in his last 18.

 

It promises to be a rude awakening for Oguchi Onyewu. The on-loan American centre-back has played just three Premiership games to date and struggled to adapt to Wigan Athletic's physical approach last week. And former defender Roeder has warned his newest recruit not to get drawn into a battle.

 

"He's a player I've admired for a long time," Roeder said of Viduka. "I like technically skilled players and Mark is that. He's kind on the eye and very, very strong. Central defenders that try to out-strength him are wasting their time. You have to be much cleverer than that.

 

"If you think you can go pound-for-pound with Mark, or Yakubu, you will lose out because he is so strong."

 

Having been in the crowd for Boro's last two home games, a 2-2 FA Cup draw with West Bromwich Albion and a 2-1 win over Reading, Roeder is well aware of the task facing his side.

 

"There's nothing better than seeing the team live," he said. "I also went to Holland this week to see AZ (Alkmaar, United's next Uefa Cup opponents) play Utrecht. So I've got a really good picture of the Middlesbrough team. There's all the DVDs and TV action we get from the Premiership, but there's nothing better than actually watching the team on the field."

 

While Viduka is high on the list of Roeder's concerns, most home fans will be more interested in Jonathan Woodgate's first St James's Park appearance since leaving for Real Madrid.

 

Almost since the day Woodgate joined the Spanish giants there has been a clamour for his return. And although Boro are hopeful of making the 27-year-old's loan move permanent, Roeder believes their confidence could be misplaced.

 

"I don't know if there's any option for Middlesbrough to sign him but I did hear Jonathan say on the radio the other week he was very surprised when it came out that they had agreed a deal with Real Madrid for his services over the next few years," Roeder said. "That decision will only be made by him, not the two clubs, and he hadn't himself made that decision.

 

"It will be about what Jonathan wants to do. He might want to go back to Real Madrid once he's proved his fitness with Middlesbrough. They are one of the most famous clubs in the world."

 

And despite admitting concerns over the England international's fitness put paid to a summer move, Roeder is a long-term admirer. He recalled: "The first time I saw Jonathan was when I was working as a coach for (Glenn) Hoddle with England. I went to a game at Portsmouth where he was playing for Leeds and he impressed me that day as a young defender.

 

"I never spoke to him in the summer because as he said at the time, he always wanted to play for his home-town club and he's fulfilled that this year."

 

After a week's rest Newcastle have no fresh injury concerns from the defeat at Wigan Athletic and Kieron Dyer has recovered from the virus which kept him out that day. The Teessiders had a draining penalty shoot-out win over West Brom on Tuesday but hope to be refreshed by the return of Mark Schwarzer and Abel Xavier.

 

Meanwhile, Newcastle and Middlesbrough, plus Blackburn, Bolton, Fulham and Tottenham have applied to play in next season's Intertoto Cup competition in case their respective bids to qualify for the Uefa Cup through either the Premiership or FA Cup end in failure.

[Howaythelads]

BUT, I do think he's done a decent job to recover some of the Souness mess. Although his legacy still lives on with some of his signings, we're better than we were under him.

 

Most managers would have recovered the mess Souness made, because all that needed to be done was playing players in their real positions and playing a basic 4-4-2.

 

Insert "good" between "playing" and "players" and you'd be closer to the mark. Unfortunately, many of the players at the club are overrated, apart from the defenders, whom many people believe are shit but I suppose if you play them in their right positions and in a 4-4-2 they'll suddenly become ace.

[mrmojorisin75]

"I never spoke to him in the summer because as he said at the time, he always wanted to play for his home-town club and he's fulfilled that this year."

 

agreed - lucky keegan didn't do that with rob lee in case he thought he didn't want to move so far north isn't it?

[Delima]

Roeder caught lying?

 

Woodgate: Roeder's big plan backfired

 

Mar 3 2007

 

By Luke Edwards, The Journal

 

 

Jonathan Woodgate returns to Newcastle today insisting Glenn Roeder's concerns over his fitness have backfired on the United manager. Woodgate revealed yesterday he had met the Magpies boss to discuss a return to St James's Park before deciding to move to his hometown club on a season's loan from Real Madrid.

 

Johnathan Woodgate intercepts a Scott Parker shot during the Barclays Premiership game between Middlesbrough and Newcastle United

 

Although the former Leeds star was tempted by a move back to Tyneside - and has not ruled out a return in the future - he suggested the emotional lure of his hometown club and the enthusiasm of Gareth Southgate and chairman Steve Gibson swung a difficult decision in Middlesbrough's favour.

 

Roeder yesterday admitted he had some interest in signing the talented centre-back but also said he was not certain the England international had finally recovered from the injuries which have blighted his career. Woodgate, who has played 25 games for Boro this season in all competitions following his return to England, said: "I talked to both Newcastle and Middlesbrough. Glenn seemed keen enough, but I liked the way Gareth and Steve Gibson were.

 

"Glenn seems like a really nice bloke and so is the Newcastle chairman, but I decided to opt for Boro because I am from here and the manager and the chairman were really good."

 

 

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Despite talking to Woodgate in the summer, Roeder conceded he had misgivings about his fitness record following two disastrous years in Spain.

 

He said: "When he has been fit he hasn't done anything to change my mind about what a good defender he is, but you needed a crystal ball, nobody knew.

 

"You're talking about a guy who's hugely talented, but I don't think he'd started 10 games in basically two seasons so how the hell could anyone be certain that he'd play as many games as he has?

 

"He's had a few minor injuries and I bet there were plenty of people who thought that would be the start of him being out for six months. He has always come back in one or two weeks."

 

Woodgate, though, is adamant he was never in any doubt that his fitness problems were behind him after a gruelling programme with former Leeds physio Dave Hancock last Spring and a pre-season under Fabio Capello at Real Madrid. He said: "If that's his (Roeder's) opinion, that's fair enough but obviously it might have backfired on him a bit because I've come to Middlesbrough and stayed fit.

 

"I always knew I would stay fit because I had done a pre-season at Madrid which was probably the hardest I had ever done. I'd played in all the pre-season games and worked hard on my own everyday.

 

"When I came to Middlesbrough I knew they had a great medical team behind them. When I saw Gareth I knew this is where I was coming. I came back from Madrid in April to see Dave Hancock and I knew I'd be all right when I went back to Madrid in the June. I was confident in my own ability to stay fit and obviously Middlesbrough Football Club were as well.

 

"Newcastle wanted me because they spoke to me, but it was my decision. I don't know if they wanted me as much as Boro, but at the end of the day it was my choice and I made the right decision."

 

A victory for Boro over their North-East rivals would lift them above Newcastle in the table, but while that will be Woodgate's objective this afternoon, he has not ruled out a move to Newcastle in the summer as he pledges to keep all his options open.

 

He said: "I will decide at the end of the season. I'm extremely happy here, but I still have a contract at Madrid and I'm their player. I'll take all my options into account. My long term considerations are happiness and an ambitious club.

 

"I've not ruled out a move to another Premiership club, but I am a Real Madrid player on loan at Middlesbrough. I still have affection for Newcastle and I enjoyed my time there massively. I still care for them.

 

"I always said if I had the opportunity to play for my hometown club I would do, but my options are fully open about the future."

[juniatmoko]

sack him at the end of the season if we want to drive forward in league.. roeder simply doing good job in stabilize souness mess... but roeder not a match winner manager but surely a good morale trainer for players... if we got decent replacement sack him... move him back at youth academy

[Karjala]

We'll sack Roeder within 15 games of next season...

[Mick]

 

he was academy director to begin with and has been involved in signing and developing some if not all of the young players we all currently laud as our future - if none of it was to do with him then tell me who it was and make THEM director of football

 

his record in the transfer market is debatable in my opinion - i think there's a strong argument to suggest he can spot a good player but isn't necessarily the best at getting them to play well in a team...he was the ONLY person that saw anything in sibierski, pushed for martins when many people wanted kuyt (i happen to think we did better out of those 2 deals) and the duff/rossi signings should have succeeded but didn't due to a number of circumstances, some roeders fault some not

 

you have to factor in the limitations on fundings he's fighting against as well - for example he obviously see's a problem at LB and with no money to spend brought in bernard to see if he could regain his former pomp, he couldn't....i imagine if he'd had 5m to spend it'd have been used?

 

if a director of football has the remit of finding players for the club and overseeing the overall structure of training/development of youth/reserves like to hear a decent argument against roeder because his shortcomings as a manager don't actually bear a great deal of relevance to the subject

 

suppose it's like saying all great scouts should be great football team managers 'cause they can spot a player, they're not....

 

and by the way when i say argument against roeder i don't mean "he's not as good as the bloke at ajax" type pish 'cause no-one with any semblance of continental/international reputation in that field would touch NUFC with a shitty stick due to our chairman, fact

 

 

 

discuss

 

Roeder was only working at the Academy for 6 months before taking over the first team, he hardly transformed the place in that time, I have no idea who he brought in but I don't think it was any of the kids that came through this year.  I remember his when he first became caretaker, he said something along the lines of the kids not being good enough to come through, I can't remember if he was referring to them and this season or them not being good enough at all.

 

As for his transfers, I don't think he knows what he's doing, his transfer activity is like his team selection, he hasn't got the balls to make a decision so seems to lose players.  He's either losing out on players or he was chasing Sibierski, Rossi and Bernard for a long time which I doubt.

 

Personally, I don't want Roeder having anything to do with structuring the club, his experience as Gillingham, Watford and West Ham hardly qualify him for that.

 

[Dinho lad]

We should get rid of him at the end of the season, imo. Thanks but no thanks, Glenn. But I know this won't happen with FS in charge. I don't think there's hope while Shepherd is still here.... even if Ferguson was manager.

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

 

he was academy director to begin with and has been involved in signing and developing some if not all of the young players we all currently laud as our future - if none of it was to do with him then tell me who it was and make THEM director of football

 

his record in the transfer market is debatable in my opinion - i think there's a strong argument to suggest he can spot a good player but isn't necessarily the best at getting them to play well in a team...he was the ONLY person that saw anything in sibierski, pushed for martins when many people wanted kuyt (i happen to think we did better out of those 2 deals) and the duff/rossi signings should have succeeded but didn't due to a number of circumstances, some roeders fault some not

 

you have to factor in the limitations on fundings he's fighting against as well - for example he obviously see's a problem at LB and with no money to spend brought in bernard to see if he could regain his former pomp, he couldn't....i imagine if he'd had 5m to spend it'd have been used?

 

if a director of football has the remit of finding players for the club and overseeing the overall structure of training/development of youth/reserves like to hear a decent argument against roeder because his shortcomings as a manager don't actually bear a great deal of relevance to the subject

 

suppose it's like saying all great scouts should be great football team managers 'cause they can spot a player, they're not....

 

and by the way when i say argument against roeder i don't mean "he's not as good as the bloke at ajax" type pish 'cause no-one with any semblance of continental/international reputation in that field would touch NUFC with a shitty stick due to our chairman, fact

 

 

 

discuss

 

Roeder was only working at the Academy for 6 months before taking over the first team, he hardly transformed the place in that time, I have no idea who he brought in but I don't think it was any of the kids that came through this year.  I remember his when he first became caretaker, he said something along the lines of the kids not being good enough to come through, I can't remember if he was referring to them and this season or them not being good enough at all.

 

As for his transfers, I don't think he knows what he's doing, his transfer activity is like his team selection, he hasn't got the balls to make a decision so seems to lose players.  He's either losing out on players or he was chasing Sibierski, Rossi and Bernard for a long time which I doubt.

 

Personally, I don't want Roeder having anything to do with structuring the club, his experience as Gillingham, Watford and West Ham hardly qualify him for that.

 

 

6 months!  fair enough then i suppose, i honestly thought it was between a year and two years, stand corrected...

 

incidentally who are the players you feel he's missed out on through lack of decision? 

and do you not attribute a large portion of that "indecision" to lack of money?  i for one don't believe there was any money to spend at all in january

 

by all accounts roeder is a meticulous and thorough person with his targets and indeed his general approach to things (from reading various interviews/reports) and i feel that he would be suited to the role - as i said before we just ain't gonna get no ajax academy genius...i think roeder knows the difference between a good player and a shit one, what else is there?

[Mick]

 

6 months!  fair enough then i suppose, i honestly thought it was between a year and two years, stand corrected...

 

incidentally who are the players you feel he's missed out on through lack of decision? 

and do you not attribute a large portion of that "indecision" to lack of money?  i for one don't believe there was any money to spend at all in january

 

by all accounts roeder is a meticulous and thorough person with his targets and indeed his general approach to things (from reading various interviews/reports) and i feel that he would be suited to the role - as i said before we just ain't gonna get no ajax academy genius...i think roeder knows the difference between a good player and a s*** one, what else is there?

 

I have no idea who these players are that he missed out on, one would appear to be Woodgate but that one is understandable considering his injury record, Kuyt was another.  Viduka must have been one of these players, we were quite happy to off-load Milner until a last minute deal for Viduka fell through, if he wanted Viduka then why wait until the transfer window was about to close before doing something about it?  I don't know who the others are.

 

What does piss me off about Woodgate is that Roeder has mentioned his injuries over the last couple of days as a reason for not bringing him here, that’s bullshit.  I'm sure Roeder knew about the injuries before speaking to him, I'm sure they didn't just come up out of the blue during some random conversation, if Roeder was so bothered about Woodgate having a poor injury record then why bother talking to him at all?

 

As for being meticulous, he took it to an extreme with Kuyt, I'm not too concerned that we didn't get him as Martins has made more of an impact than him this season.  Why he scouted him from April and still had to scout him the day after he'd agreed so sign for Liverpool is crazy and smacks as a lack of faith in his own ability to make a judgement on a player.  Not making rash decisions is one thing but dithering is another, we would have been right in the shit this season if it wasn't for Martins making it known that he wanted to leave Milan because of a lack of opportunity.

 

If we are going to bring in a Director of Football then we should be looking at somebody who has been involved with a club who is seen as using best practice, not somebody who has never been involved at the highest level, somebody who has struggled at everything he's done.  Roeder has not managed in the Premiership for 3 seasons in total yet, he does have experience with working for the FA, at least I think he does, that's no great claim to fame, Howard Wilkinson worked for the FA for years and hardly set the world on fire when he went back to club football.

 

[BlueStar]

look for replacements now to move in after the season.

 

Nope, give him loads of money, say he's not going anywhere, sack him the next week after a poor result at home safe in the knowledge that loads of people will want to manage us, end up panic-appointing a bargain basement manager no-one else wants, rinse, repeat.

 

[mrmojorisin75]

on the woodgate thing there's actually another post on here about it where roeder admits to not actually talking to woodgate at all...but not to do with the injuries but "because he wanted to play for his hometown club" - not saying that makes it any better as it happens

 

the viduka one i can't fathom - i heard it came down to 'boro not letting him go (couldn't agree a fee) but viduka wanting to and the same i believe for zat knight - they were the two players he went for but when he couldn't get them (financially) he turned milner around....that's not indecision on his part, it comes down to finances doesn't it?  as for waiting 'til the last day that's not up to roeder either - the fat man was into that negotiating tactical masterstroke ("make 'em sweat and we'll get 'em cheap") long before roeder came along, again not his doing...

 

do you honestly think he wasn't decided about kuyt after watching him for so long?  i don't personally...for once i believe him when he says martins was his first choice but i see kuyt as his backup if he couldn't get martins...i just think he's shit at trying to throw people off the scent (i'm sure he actually said there was no interest at all in onyewu during the last window only to go and sign him)

 

furthermore i feel the kuyt example actually backs up my point, that that level of detailed scouting and evaluation is excellent if you're not constrained by first team issues and deadlines, which a director of football wouldn't be

 

anyhow i'm not saying there aren't better out there, of course there are and i'd love to see us get one, but i just don't think we have the pulling power either status-wise or finance-wise anymore....

[Tom_NUFC]

I don't think we can progress under Roeder. Having said that I wouldn't get rid of him right now. With Roeder we're treading water, which of course isn't ideal, but its far better than going into reverse as we did with the likes of Souness, Gullit etc. I think there's a bit of stability. He likes the players, they like him, there's a bit of team spirit. I say rather than do something knee jerk which is how we ended up with Souness, lets stick with Roeder unless/until we can bring in someone better.

 

He's a good man who cares about the club - no, ultimately he probably won't take us forward, (although if he did manage it, I'd be more than happy) but he does have a bit of stability, and that's better than sacking him without thinking about who to get in and we end up with some useless tosser like Souness because we can't find anyone decent.

 

People are talking about the tedium, but at least with Roeder in, we're only tedious sometimes, as opposed to the vast majority of occassions when Souness was in charge. I tell you what. I don't mind going to the match now, under Souness I used to fucking dread it and it felt like a chore.

[Mick]

on the woodgate thing there's actually another post on here about it where roeder admits to not actually talking to woodgate at all...but not to do with the injuries but "because he wanted to play for his hometown club" - not saying that makes it any better as it happens

 

the viduka one i can't fathom - i heard it came down to 'boro not letting him go (couldn't agree a fee) but viduka wanting to and the same i believe for zat knight - they were the two players he went for but when he couldn't get them (financially) he turned milner around....that's not indecision on his part, it comes down to finances doesn't it?  as for waiting 'til the last day that's not up to roeder either - the fat man was into that negotiating tactical masterstroke ("make 'em sweat and we'll get 'em cheap") long before roeder came along, again not his doing...

 

do you honestly think he wasn't decided about kuyt after watching him for so long?  i don't personally...for once i believe him when he says martins was his first choice but i see kuyt as his backup if he couldn't get martins...i just think he's s*** at trying to throw people off the scent (i'm sure he actually said there was no interest at all in onyewu during the last window only to go and sign him)

 

furthermore i feel the kuyt example actually backs up my point, that that level of detailed scouting and evaluation is excellent if you're not constrained by first team issues and deadlines, which a director of football wouldn't be

 

anyhow i'm not saying there aren't better out there, of course there are and i'd love to see us get one, but i just don't think we have the pulling power either status-wise or finance-wise anymore....

 

Roeder and Woodgate seem to have two differing versions of events, one we didn't speak and one we did.  It was well publicised that Woodgate was travelling up to see us after speaking to Boro although that could be bullshit, woodgate saying that we did speak suggests that maybe him and the press were right, it's a strange one as I can't see any reason for Roeder to tell porkies but the same could be said of Woodgate, why would he tell lies about it?

 

I can't see how Martins was first choice, we started scouting Kuyt in April at the latest but didn't even start looking at Martins until the season was almost upon us, we'll never know.

 

[Optimistic Nut]

He's out of his depths here. Let him go back to the academy and let him help bring through some more stars such as O'Brien & Pattison.

[Mick]

He's out of his depths here. Let him go back to the academy and let him help bring through some more stars such as O'Brien & Pattison.