What would it take to get the spark back?

[Guest Knightrider]

Getting back to the earlier point about bandwagon jumpers. I wish  they would all fúck off back to their Saturday afternoon shopping and taking the piss out of Newcastle supporters. The club doesn't need them and nobody gives a s*** what they think anyway.

 

If that's the case, can we get rid of the sort of people who I was sitting amongst last night, as well?

 

Offer nowt to the club bar their cash.

 

Aye, absolutely. "Supporters" who do nowt but moan and don't support can all piss off as far as I'm concerned. Grassroots might tell you about some tirade I went into a while ago after we played Wolves about people who boo at the match. Gets on my bloody wick. I may criticise certain individuals here but at the match you support the team and all of the players and that's the end of it.

 

Aye, good tirade it was too, and something I agree with 100%, hate booing, hate the bandwagon jumpers too, but we need them, although I'd like to see more proper fans into the ground from rough areas like Bensham, Walker, the West End, who have been priced out, but again, we'd lose money if we lowered ticket prices to accomodate such fans and we can't have it both ways.

[Rich]

Getting back to the earlier point about bandwagon jumpers. I wish  they would all fúck off back to their Saturday afternoon shopping and taking the piss out of Newcastle supporters. The club doesn't need them and nobody gives a s*** what they think anyway.

 

If that's the case, can we get rid of the sort of people who I was sitting amongst last night, as well?

 

Offer nowt to the club bar their cash.

 

Aye, absolutely. "Supporters" who do nowt but moan and don't support can all piss off as far as I'm concerned. Grassroots might tell you about some tirade I went into a while ago after we played Wolves about people who boo at the match. Gets on my bloody wick. I may criticise certain individuals here but at the match you support the team and all of the players and that's the end of it.

 

If, as HTT suggests, we didn't need the money from these clowns - I'd happily see the back of them all, as well.

 

HTL, if everyone on here thinks you're that bad, then I'll implore them to sit in Row J seat 50 of the Leazes End once a season. If people like that posted on here, THEN we'd see some arguing.

[Howaythelads]

Getting back to the earlier point about bandwagon jumpers. I wish  they would all fúck off back to their Saturday afternoon shopping and taking the piss out of Newcastle supporters. The club doesn't need them and nobody gives a s*** what they think anyway.

 

The club would go bust without them tbh, can't have it both ways.

 

No, there are lots of 'new' supporters who aren't bandwagon jumpers. I'm not on about them.

 

As I've said before, the bandwagon jumper is the older type who could have gone when we were shit but didn't bother, even though they could have gone. A lot of these people laughed at the hardcore supporters who 'wasted their money watching that shit' but when it all kicked off under KK they suddenly became lifelong supporters again. These are the type the club can easily live without, these are the moaning twats who didn't go when attendances were down to 15,000, coming out of the woodwork when we had a cup run or something. They've continued going to matches because in fact we aren't as crap as people like to say we are AND they know that the board will try to improve the team by backing the manager to the best of their ability. Something that should not be taken for granted because they do not have to do it.

 

When a club/team is really crap AND a board is seen to not have ambition to improve and challenge, attendances drop. They haven't dropped and if the moaning bandwagon jumpers buggered off attendances wouldn't drop because better people would take their place.

[Howaythelads]

Getting back to the earlier point about bandwagon jumpers. I wish  they would all fúck off back to their Saturday afternoon shopping and taking the piss out of Newcastle supporters. The club doesn't need them and nobody gives a s*** what they think anyway.

 

If that's the case, can we get rid of the sort of people who I was sitting amongst last night, as well?

 

Offer nowt to the club bar their cash.

 

Aye, absolutely. "Supporters" who do nowt but moan and don't support can all piss off as far as I'm concerned. Grassroots might tell you about some tirade I went into a while ago after we played Wolves about people who boo at the match. Gets on my bloody wick. I may criticise certain individuals here but at the match you support the team and all of the players and that's the end of it.

 

If, as HTT suggests, we didn't need the money from these clowns - I'd happily see the back of them all, as well.

 

HTL, if everyone on here thinks you're that bad, then I'll implore them to sit in Row J seat 50 of the Leazes End once a season. If people like that posted on here, THEN we'd see some arguing.

 

Eh? Do people think I'm bad? 

 

You have to remember, those on here who don't like me are people whose opinion I don't give a toss about anyway. 

[Guest Knightrider]

Getting back to the earlier point about bandwagon jumpers. I wish  they would all fúck off back to their Saturday afternoon shopping and taking the piss out of Newcastle supporters. The club doesn't need them and nobody gives a s*** what they think anyway.

 

The club would go bust without them tbh, can't have it both ways.

 

No, there are lots of 'new' supporters who aren't bandwagon jumpers. I'm not on about them.

 

As I've said before, the bandwagon jumper is the older type who could have gone when we were shit but didn't bother, even though they could have gone. A lot of these people laughed at the hardcore supporters who 'wasted their money watching that shit' but when it all kicked off under KK they suddenly became lifelong supporters again. These are the type the club can easily live without, these are the moaning twats who didn't go when attendances were down to 15,000, coming out of the woodwork when we had a cup run or something. They've continued going to matches because in fact we aren't as crap as people like to say we are AND they know that the board will try to improve the team by backing the manager to the best of their ability. Something that should not be taken for granted because they do not have to do it.

 

When a club/team is really crap AND a board is seen to not have ambition to improve and challenge, attendances drop. They haven't dropped and if the moaning bandwagon jumpers buggered off attendances wouldn't drop because better people would take their place.

 

I know, but they still provide a good chunk of the club's income, lose them and we lose money. They are a necessary evil if you like.

 

That said, if the team we doing better, there wouldn't be as much moaning and booing, and it is up to the board and manager to put things right, and you have to say regardless, they are to blame for the moaning and booing in one way or another.

[Rich]

HTL, I think "everyone" was a bit harsh, looking back

 

Excellent point about the type of bandwagon supporters you mention, the think that narks me is being classed in amongst the "Skyboys" because of nowt else bar my age.

 

And HTT, even when we were finishing 3rd and 4th there was still a hell of a lot of moaning/scape-goating/arguing from what I recall. Some people just like to behave that way. I don't think success equates to harmony among supporters, not at all, maybe like you say "not as much" - but there'll still be a significant number who will find enough to pick fault with. Phil K was the master of that a few years back, seems to have mellowed somewhat now.

 

Some people expect us to win every game we play, keep clean sheets and to play brilliant football along with it, and it's just not a realistic expectation. I bet there are still plenty of moaning Man Utd/Chelsea fans around, too.

[Guest Knightrider]

BTW I think it is too easy to put our poor attendances in the late 80s/early 90s compared to today's good attendances down to deserters coming back or people who didn't bother going when we were shit, turning up when KK took over. Many factors lead to those poor attendances and many factors have lead to our good attendances today. The majority of our crowd today is young, in the 20-35 bracket, these aren't bandwagon jumpers, but the previous and next generation where as you are the old generation, if you don't mind me saying. Of course a good few who didn't bother in the bad old days, go today now that things are better, but they don't even make up a significant number in my opinion.

[NE5]

 

as it happens, as you'll see from various posts here to yourself and HTL, some of what you (both) said has rubbed off on me a bit...i was backing your factual argument earlier regarding league positions but i do think they're taken out of context without any sort of financial background to them, the same as the financial argument can't stand alone without looking at league placings/european qualifications

 

as for the "dramatic shift", i'm no accountant but i do know that financially our club has received a sh!tload of money over the last 10-15 years and it all hasn't been because the board were astute enough to generate it themselves....here's that word again but context can't be ignored - riding on the back of a wave that keegan created, the club (through Fletcher largely i seem to remember) managed to increase turnover, improve the stadium, sell more shirts and blah blah blah but it was part of wider trend of football becoming more trendy itself, the outward reduction of the hooligan element and football becoming more family oriented, and of course the birth of the sky generation....

 

if keegan had simply gotten us promoted amidst the game still being mired with a terrible reputation for hooliganism, there being no moves to improve the quality of the stadium and the game not awash with rupert murdochs money and, more importantly, the new profile sky created for the game then i have no doubt of two things: #1, we would not have had the league positions and european football we've seen for 10 years and #2, we'd probably be broke and have been relegated by now

 

as for the people who booed robson well i'm in total agreement with you, 100%...i hope they can sleep at night these days...but i suppose that's what i can't get over and you can - it wasn't the people that booed robson who sacked him, nay humiliated him, it was freddy shepherd and i find it hard to forget or forgive that mistake....

 

Good post, don't expect the same in response, expect something along the lines of 5th best over the last decade, would you be happy with a chairman like Doug Ellis? Etc etc etc zzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzz.

 

is there such a thing is copying and pasting a non reply I wonder

 

Didn't expect you to 

[NE5]

 

Did you differentiate between McKeag, Westwood and Seymour, when they were all on the same board ? Did anything change when they rotated as chairmen ?

 

 

The point is that the board is the same as since 1992. The same people have appointed the managers, and the same people have gave all the manager identical backing ie the utmost possible.

 

The board isn't the same as in 1992, you're wrong.  I think only two of our current board members were on the board in 1992, Douglas and Freddy, the chairman was also different.

 

who happen to be the 2 major shareholders  ;D

 

 

 

[NE5]

 

Did you differentiate between McKeag, Westwood and Seymour, when they were all on the same board ? Did anything change when they rotated as chairmen ?

 

 

The point is that the board is the same as since 1992. The same people have appointed the managers, and the same people have gave all the manager identical backing ie the utmost possible.

 

The board isn't the same as in 1992, you're wrong.  I think only two of our current board members were on the board in 1992, Douglas and Freddy, the chairman was also different.

 

 

 

Carry on deluding yourself as usual. You won't be happy until they have been replaced, lets hope it isn't for people like McKeag etc as before, but you will be happy as you think they are all the same ie those league positions I posted are the same results as qualifying regularly for europe.

 

I think Shepherd is as bad as those chairmen you mention, I agree with that.  They didn't have his windfall, the Sir John/Keegan legacy to work with.  I don't think for one minute that Shepherd would have done any better if he'd been chairman when they were, he's done as badly as they did but he had a massive advantage over them.

 

Maybe you could try and explain how him taking us backwards is any better than when they did it, try doing it without sending most people to sleep.

 

 

At least the younger lads on here actually don't know differently. Whereas in your case, you just close your eyes, or as I have said before, are lying when you say you were there at the time.

 

 

Same bollocks different day, sad old man.

 

haha.......not old, but most definitely more sensible, knowledgeable and realistic than you....and not a KK bandwagon jumper either

 

The thing about you, and the others whose opinions you repeat, is that the club isn't doing badly.....if we were halfway in the 2nd division you would have a case for this "going backwards" stuff.....the alternative is believing that a club who is 2nd in the league has a divine right to stay there forever, and only the KK bandwagon jumpers, and unrealistic people come out with stupid statements like that, especially people who say they are "experienced and knowledgeable football supporters". Clearly, you aren't.

 

You could start by being constructive and tell us who you believe the manager of the calibre of Keegan could be, because there isn't any doubt that we have not finished 2nd since he was manager, or the team he built, to be specific. As you say, facts are facts.

 

It is also facts that the board you consider to be "the same as the current one" considered 2nd in the 2nd division to be success.

 

Are you going to comment on those league positions pre-1992 or not, which show anyone who looks at them the progress we have made since the current major shareholders/board took over the club.

[Howaythelads]

BTW I think it is too easy to put our poor attendances in the late 80s/early 90s compared to today's good attendances down to deserters coming back or people who didn't bother going when we were s***, turning up when KK took over. Many factors lead to those poor attendances and many factors have lead to our good attendances today. The majority of our crowd today is young, in the 20-35 bracket, these aren't bandwagon jumpers, but the previous and next generation where as you are the old generation, if you don't mind me saying. Of course a good few who didn't bother in the bad old days, go today now that things are better, but they don't even make up a significant number in my opinion.

 

Old? Blimey. I don't consider myself to be old, man. I'm only in my 40's ffs. 

[macbeth]

Aye, absolutely. "Supporters" who do nowt but moan and don't support can all piss off as far as I'm concerned. Grassroots might tell you about some tirade I went into a while ago after we played Wolves about people who boo at the match. Gets on my bloody wick. I may criticise certain individuals here but at the match you support the team and all of the players and that's the end of it.

 

How did you feel when the flat cappers in the Centre Paddock all used to abuse Gibbo, to the extent that Harvey came close to not playing him at home ??

 

There have always been moaners

[NE5]

Aye, absolutely. "Supporters" who do nowt but moan and don't support can all piss off as far as I'm concerned. Grassroots might tell you about some tirade I went into a while ago after we played Wolves about people who boo at the match. Gets on my bloody wick. I may criticise certain individuals here but at the match you support the team and all of the players and that's the end of it.

 

How did you feel when the flat cappers in the Centre Paddock all used to abuse Gibbo, to the extent that Harvey came close to not playing him at home ??

 

There have always been moaners

 

I was standing in the old corner - where the old flag was - the day he put his 2 fingers up at the boo boys, towards the corner. I wasn't booing though, I never have and never will do that.

 

 

 

[Mick]

 

haha.......not old, but most definitely more sensible, knowledgeable and realistic than you....and not a KK bandwagon jumper either

 

According to you you're not a Keegan bandwagon jumper.  More sensible, knowledgeable and realistic, that's not for me to say, I wouldn't be so sad or arrogant as to make such claims.

 

The thing about you, and the others whose opinions you repeat, is that the club isn't doing badly.....if we were halfway in the 2nd division you would have a case for this "going backwards" stuff.....the alternative is believing that a club who is 2nd in the league has a divine right to stay there forever, and only the KK bandwagon jumpers, and unrealistic people come out with stupid statements like that, especially people who say they are "experienced and knowledgeable football supporters". Clearly, you aren't.

 

 

A case for going backwards is proven, you put the league tables up and they prove that, no matter how you try to dress it up.

 

Who has ever said that we've got a divine right to stay there forever?  You're the only person who ever says that.

 

You're trying to make out that I'm a bandwagon jumper, is that because everybody now knows that your comfort blanket is your brother?  You denied it for ages and were shown to be a liar, now you are trying to make it look as if I didn't support the team when we were shit, it's your attempt to regain some credability, keep it up, you look ridiculous.  

 

You're also a hypocrite because you never once tried to defend Shepherd while we were in the minority of those against Souness, you're pathetic.  You were too busy sending me pm's trying to get me to stalk Ozzie like you did, I didn't bite though.

 

You could start by being constructive and tell us who you believe the manager of the calibre of Keegan could be, because there isn't any doubt that we have not finished 2nd since he was manager, or the team he built, to be specific. As you say, facts are facts.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the person I wanted to become manager after Keegan was Bobby Robson.  I think we would have won something if he took over the team Keegan left behind.  It’s a pity that he was more honourable than the person who told him that he and 5th in the league was no longer good enough.

 

 

It is also facts that the board you consider to be "the same as the current one" considered 2nd in the 2nd division to be success.

 

I would think that most directors would have considered 2nd to be a success, 1st or 2nd makes little difference.

 

Are you going to comment on those league positions pre-1992 or not, which show anyone who looks at them the progress we have made since the current major shareholders/board took over the club.

 

The league positions before 1992 were crap, what do you think I was going to say?  Why do you keep banging on about the major shareholders?  Is it so that you can hide Shepherd behind others even though Shepherd has complained that the major shareholders have no involvement with the day to day running of the club?  If they have no involvement then I can't see any justification for them taking any blame for w

[Mick]

Aye, absolutely. "Supporters" who do nowt but moan and don't support can all piss off as far as I'm concerned. Grassroots might tell you about some tirade I went into a while ago after we played Wolves about people who boo at the match. Gets on my bloody wick. I may criticise certain individuals here but at the match you support the team and all of the players and that's the end of it.

 

How did you feel when the flat cappers in the Centre Paddock all used to abuse Gibbo, to the extent that Harvey came close to not playing him at home ??

 

There have always been moaners

 

I was standing in the old corner - where the old flag was - the day he put his 2 fingers up at the boo boys, towards the corner. I wasn't booing though, I never have and never will do that.

 

 

 

 

I thought you had a season ticket for the Paddock?

[Mick]

 

Did you differentiate between McKeag, Westwood and Seymour, when they were all on the same board ? Did anything change when they rotated as chairmen ?

 

 

The point is that the board is the same as since 1992. The same people have appointed the managers, and the same people have gave all the manager identical backing ie the utmost possible.

 

The board isn't the same as in 1992, you're wrong.  I think only two of our current board members were on the board in 1992, Douglas and Freddy, the chairman was also different.

 

who happen to be the 2 major shareholders  ;D

 

 

 

 

 

So when you refer to the board you don't actually mean the board, you mean two of them.

 

Good job you're not the person who has a go at people for not being able to quote, you'd look like a right idiot if it was you.

 

[macbeth]

Aye, absolutely. "Supporters" who do nowt but moan and don't support can all piss off as far as I'm concerned. Grassroots might tell you about some tirade I went into a while ago after we played Wolves about people who boo at the match. Gets on my bloody wick. I may criticise certain individuals here but at the match you support the team and all of the players and that's the end of it.

 

How did you feel when the flat cappers in the Centre Paddock all used to abuse Gibbo, to the extent that Harvey came close to not playing him at home ??

 

There have always been moaners

 

I was standing in the old corner - where the old flag was - the day he put his 2 fingers up at the boo boys, towards the corner. I wasn't booing though, I never have and never will do that.

 

 

 

 

not sure anyone was booing, there were moaners though, just as there were in 1981 and 1991 and 2001 and there are in 2007. Moaning is not a new phenomenon.

 

HTL was on about moaners, not particualry "boo-boys". I always felt the older generation were the moaners. They had been going for ever, had suddenly realised it wasn't going to get any better, had therefore become useod to complaining. There are many of the current middle-aged/older brigade who have suddenly reached this conclusion too. (They aren't band-wagon jumpers, any more than the 20,000 extra who turned out for the Forest game in 74 were band-wagon jumpers).

 

The current middle-aged supporters have been probably been going either on and off, or regularly for over 30 years. Up to 15 years ago there was no hope, suddenly for a special few years there was again. Now we are sliding downwards again. Those that see the slow slide into mid-table mediocrity of the last three seasons are worried. They DO remember the things you mention about the 70s and 80s. They are as scared of its return as you are. The younger (under 30s have no experience of the bad old days).

 

The difference for many of us is that you see the decline as circumstances out of the control of anyone, and most definitely not the fault of chairman and CEO of the last few years. Many of us see the decline as being due to the policies of the board.

 

You fear that we could end up with the disaster we had in having a couple of incompetent families running the club for too long in the 70s and 80s. The rest of see that that is exacxtly what has happened again.

 

The only reason for supporting Shepherd in his job is that he is in the job. It was the same with those who sutpported Souness. They support everythign to do with NUFC and while he was the club manager they backed him, they supported everything about Newcastle.

 

Back in the early 1990s there was a huge backlash against the corruption at the top of the Olympic movemet. An independent body produced a report detailing the corruption and demanding it was cleaned up. Samarnach who had run it for years wanted to appoint himself as the cleanser. His logic was that he knew the organisation better than anyone, so who better to do the job. I'm sure you would agree the best person to get NUFC out of its decline, and its financial mess, due to their inside knowledge should similarly be Freddie Shepherd.

 

[madras]

i honestly think there are one or two on here who secretly want nufc to get beat at times so they can see vindication for themselves, or certain players to play well or poorly for the same reason.

 

i find the biggest moaners are the 18-25yr olds,they've been brought up on good times and are still young enough to engage gob before brain.also there is the tendancy to "peacock" ,to want to be seen and heard,to want to say things that are a challenge to the orthadoxy wether believed or not.

 

need the annoying buggers there like as the little atmosphere thats there tends to come from them.

[Guest BooBoo]

Can we not just have a sticky where NE5 and Superbore can post their ideas, rather than ruining most threads with their guff?

[macbeth]

Can we not just have a sticky where NE5 and Superbore can post their ideas, rather than ruining most threads with their guff?

 

I agree

[madras]

Can we not just have a sticky where NE5 and Superbore can post their ideas, rather than ruining most threads with their guff?

 

I agree

being fair,there are quite a few with opposing ideas who are just as willing to join in.

[Mick]

i honestly think there are one or two on here who secretly want nufc to get beat at times so they can see vindication for themselves, or certain players to play well or poorly for the same reason.

 

i find the biggest moaners are the 18-25yr olds,they've been brought up on good times and are still young enough to engage gob before brain.also there is the tendancy to "peacock" ,to want to be seen and heard,to want to say things that are a challenge to the orthadoxy wether believed or not.

 

need the annoying buggers there like as the little atmosphere thats there tends to come from them.

 

I wouldn't say it's all of the younger ones, I used to sit two seats away from a bloke who must have been in his fifties, he always turned up pissed, slurring his speech and smoking rollies, I never heard him say anything until one of our players made a mistake.

 

He spent all of the game either chain smoking or moaning, I'm not joking about him never saying anything positive, the bloke had my blood pressure going through the roof, everybody reacted the same towards him.  Most people around us spent most of our time telling him to shut his mouth, 5 minutes later somebody would make a mistake and he saw that as justification for everything.

[madras]

i honestly think there are one or two on here who secretly want nufc to get beat at times so they can see vindication for themselves, or certain players to play well or poorly for the same reason.

 

i find the biggest moaners are the 18-25yr olds,they've been brought up on good times and are still young enough to engage gob before brain.also there is the tendancy to "peacock" ,to want to be seen and heard,to want to say things that are a challenge to the orthadoxy wether believed or not.

 

need the annoying buggers there like as the little atmosphere thats there tends to come from them.

 

I wouldn't say it's all of the younger ones, I used to sit two seats away from a bloke who must have been in his fifties, he always turned up pissed, slurring his speech and smoking rollies, I never heard him say anything until one of our players made a mistake.

 

He spent all of the game either chain smoking or moaning, I'm not joking about him never saying anything positive, the bloke had my blood pressure going through the roof, everybody reacted the same towards him.  Most people around us spent most of our time telling him to shut his mouth, 5 minutes later somebody would make a mistake and he saw that as justification for everything.

not all,just one of those generalisations you can't help but make and no doubt there are whining oldies.

 

 

anyone remember "fred the fan" a cartoon strip from the 70's,he was the constant whiner who'd turn up week after week.

[Mick]

Can we not just have a sticky where NE5 and Superbore can post their ideas, rather than ruining most threads with their guff?

 

I agree

being fair,there are quite a few with opposing ideas who are just as willing to join in.

 

Most of those with opposing ideas at least give Shepherd credit when it's due.

 

I've given him credit for his part in the ground development and his part in the Academy and training facilities, I would even credit him for his latest appointment to the board.  NE5 sees anything said against Shepherd as a reason to defend him, he even defends the appointment of Souness by saying that Liverpool also got it wrong when they appointed Souness.  Liverpool appointed him before he'd developed his reputation as being a poor manager who fell out with players.

[madras]

Can we not just have a sticky where NE5 and Superbore can post their ideas, rather than ruining most threads with their guff?

 

I agree

being fair,there are quite a few with opposing ideas who are just as willing to join in.

 

Most of those with opposing ideas at least give Shepherd credit when it's due.

 

I've given him credit for his part in the ground development and his part in the Academy and training facilities, I would even credit him for his latest appointment to the board.  NE5 sees anything said against Shepherd as a reason to defend him, he even defends the appointment of Souness by saying that Liverpool also got it wrong when they appointed Souness.  Liverpool appointed him before he'd developed his reputation as being a poor manager who fell out with players.

you'll be in that sticky with NE5.....were you superbore