The way forward as I see it...

[YankeeToon]

So, it goes without saying that most of us are pretty disillusioned with the club right now. We seem to have lost our way, and we don't seem capable of regaining it easily. There have been countless references to "papering over the cracks," with good reason. Most of the problems we face right now are deep-rooted and difficult to sort out. Difficult, but not impossible. The way forward, as I see it, is going to be long and hard. It will take time, probably at MINIMUM 3 or 4 seasons to do it properly. And in the meantime, there will be disappointment after disappointment. This is inevitable. It's part of the rebuilding process, and it requires patience. People need to let go of this idea that "every player who can't help us challenge for a top-4 spot needs to be sold or released ASAP". There is no way in hell we will be top-4 next season. I'll bet money that we won't even mount a serious challenge for top-8. To move forward again as a club, we need a lot of things (topmost being a quality manager, but more on that later...) We need new strikers. We need a restructured midfield, quite probably replacing at least 2 current starters and most of the bench. We need an entire new group of defenders, with the possible exception of Taylor as a back-up. The only thing we don't need right now is a Keeper. It's impossible to fix all that in one transfer window, so what sense is there in releasing mediocre players unless we can replace them with something better?

 

Next season is a write-off. As I said, we can't fix all our problems in one transfer window and we don't have the team to make anything resembling a push for the top. We won't accomplish anything of note, probably won't even be in Europe at all, and we're not going to win the League Cup, either. Probably true for the season after as well. So we should take the next few seasons as a chance to focus on fixing some of our problems. Resign ourselves to mid-table from the get-go and really work on solving our defensive problems instead of trying to halfway fix our defense, midfield, and attack all in one window. Spend this season's and next season's transfer budget fixing the defense, as constantly leaking goals is much more likely to get us relegated than lack of firepower up front. Our only focus for the next two seasons should be Premiership survival and putting together a solid back 4 that can actually function as a unit and link up with the midfield.

 

Assuming Freddy means it when he says he'll back a full defensive rebuild this sumer, a realistic transfer goal for next season is a new LB, a new RB, and 2 new CB's, plus a few squad players to fill any holes that may open up front. Get shot of Ramage, Moore (leaving anyway), and Carr. Give Gooch and Bramble one-season contracts as backup and keep Taylor. And, of course, keep Shay right where he is. Send Huntington and Edgar (and Krul)  :fight:away on loan to sides where they can get a little more experience. Then, pick our best back 4 and stick with them, barring injury, every game, every practice, until they know each other back and forth and can move and play as a single defensive force. Season after, another LB, RB, and another CB, get rid of Baba, Bramble, and probably Gooch. Keep working on the defense until we finally get it right.

 

Then, the season after, focus on the midfield and repeat the process, except this time we need to finally sort out exactly what kind of game we're going to try and play. If we're going to rely on wing play and crosses into the box, we need to set up for that. If we're going to use the long ball, we need to set up for that. If we're going to try and play a passing game and break through the middle, we need to set up for that. If we're going to play defensively and rely on hitting them on the counter, then... you get the point. We need a midfield strategy that we can execute consistently, with players who are suited to that style. If that takes another 2 seasons to get right, then that's what we have to do. The season after that, bring in another 2 strikers and repeat, and then maybe we'd have a team that can make top-6 consistently and possibly unseat one of the Big 4.

 

This is the way forward as I see it, painful as it may be. By sacrificing our next few seasons to mediocrity in order to really repair the damage of the post-Keegan uncertainty and chaos, we can put together a much stronger team. Fix each area, one step at a time, and spend the time to get it right so the infrastructure is in place. But for this to succeed, we need to be looking for players who aren't glory hunters or trophy signings, who are willing to spend a few seasons without European football in order to build a stronger team. It would mean sitting down our entire current squad and saying "Anyone who's unwilling to spend some time in the trenches to rebuild our organization should leave now." Sell anyone who's not willing to do that. I figure Butt and Nobby both know they're coming up on the end of their careers, they're not likely to attract any interest from any better prospect, so they'd stick around. Shay says he wants to finish his career here. Martins might or might not, depends who comes in for him. Owen, Parker, Dyer and Duff would leave. Zog, Emre, and Milner are maybe's. But what we would make selling them should let us buy adequate cover to stay up for a few seasons, and give us a chance to bring in the right kind of replacement. We need players who have the drive and the skill to succeed but are patient enough to work for it over two or three or four seasons instead of expecting it right away. Ultimately, we need players who care about the future of NUFC and not just their own paychecks and accolades, who want to help shape the club into the force that all of us think we deserve to be. If they actually exist.

 

And, most importantly, we need a manager who knows how to rebuild from scratch and identify our weak links. That ain't Roeder. Who it should be is pretty widely open to opinion, and also pretty hard to judge. And unfortunately, the current board's track record on management selection leaves a great deal to be desired. But, barring a takeover, that's what we're stuck with, and that's who will ultimately decide the manager. But whoever it is, we need to pick a manager and stick with him through the entire rebuilding process or else we'll just run into the same problem all over again, as each new manager has a different idea of how to take the club forward. We need to keep one manager for at least the next 3 seasons, regardless of our League position. As long as we're not relegated, our position shouldn't matter until the rebuild is done. If it's going right, we'll see slow and steady improvements all throughout, ending with a season where we come out and storm the gates.

 

Sorry that ran on so long. Of course, it should be mentioned that there's a great likelihood that I'm just talking out of my ass, as I have zero experience running a team, let alone rebuilding one. And I'm sure many on here will disagree; the oldsters will say that us post-Keegan supporters don't know how bad it can get, some will say that focusing on defense is pointless and that our attack should be first priority, some will say that we shouldn't settle for mediocrity for even a season, some will say that it would be impossible to stay up AND follow that plan at the same time, some will say that all our competent players would be off like a shot, some (probably lots ) will say that Americans shouldn't be allowed to post in general, and of course there's the nagging fact that none of this even matters as it's not likely anyone reading this can actually influence the way NUFC is run. But it felt good to write.

 

Long, drawn-out, unqualified analysis complete. Let the bloodshed begin.

[GM]

No way am I going to read all of that.

 

However, I do hope writing it was cathartic for you.

[Dokko]

I think were all in agreement what this club needs right now, new manager, new defense and if possible new owners.

 

Thats just the start, but until that happens we will continue to rot away becoming less likely to be restored to our full glory.

[Shak]

I'm not sure resigning ourselves to mid-table mediocrity and Premiership survival for the next few seasons is the way forward. If that's our target then we're setting dangerously low goals.

 

Top 4 next season is almost certainly beyond us but with a good manager and some wisely spent money we could be challenging for, if possibly not achieving, a Top 4 finish within 2 years.

 

Take Spurs 3 years ago. They were much like us, struggling with some good players but no real direction. They get a good manager and a few good signings and bam, they're one dodgy dinner away from a CL spot.

 

Shay is a top keeper, and Krul looks to be a potential succesor. So we're set in goals.

 

Taylor I believe can be a good defender if he isn't stuck with the likes of Bramble for a partner. A couple of good full backs and a solid CB can be got if we have 15-20m to spend on them.

 

We've got two very promising wingers in N'Zogbia and Milner, and in Parker we have a player who can do a job if moved back to being a DM. What we desperately need is a Scholes, Fabregas type player, someone to really make us tick in the middle of the field. That player will be hard, and likely expensive, to find but if we find him our midfield could be quite good, with Dyer, Duff and Butt also capable of contributing too. Emre would be able to, but I'd expect he'll be gone in the summer.

 

Then add a bigger, more physical striker to give us a different option to Owen and Martins up front and we'd be pretty good tbh, assuming we get a good manager.

 

I reckon all that could be bought by the start of the season after next. Obviously it won't be easy and odds are we won't get it done, but I don't buy into the idea that we're fucked for the next few years and should go about dismantling the team and starting over.

 

We just need a good manager.

[dcmk]

Way i see.. we would have the best squad for a long long time if get a few decent defenders in.  Probably better than SBR CL team.  I say let Roeder have transfer window was liking some of the names we were constantly being linked too alot, so think will do well next one

 

few defenders and his regime would be quite successful..

 

forwards not a problem, 1st choice anyway

pretty good midfield

awesome goalkeeper

...

and yea

not all gloom... Fat fred likes to wield the axe about !  so if he see's the need he will be gone

[mrmojorisin75]

 

Top 4 next season is almost certainly beyond us but with a good manager and some wisely spent money we could be challenging for, if possibly not achieving, a Top 4 finish within 2 years.

 

 

where'd you get those black and white glasses pal?  specsavers?

 

i need a new pair 'cause mine are f*cked....i can barely see the top half of the table these days, top four is a dim and distant blur

[toptoon]

I've given Roeder up to the AK game, but i've absolutely no faith in him what so ever now. Last season's miraculous recovery was more due to Shearer than to Glenn imo. Take Shearer away this season and surprise surprise a horrendous start and a very poor season. Glenn's team selections have been very poor and undoubtably cost us games. The team do not look motivated to me his tactics also leave alot to be desired (i.e. Holland). Look what Keane's  done to Sunderland, completely turned them around and Shearer could do that here imo. Its definately worth the gamble. If Shearer doesn't fancy it then we have to attract the best manager posible. Guss Hindink name has been mentioned and quite rightly too as he's a top manager imo. 

[Howaythelads]

We need better players in all areas of  the team, as most have known for ages. The question is what is the priority taking into account balance of the squad etc.

 

Much will depend on the fitness of Owen, assumng he stays. If he does stay fit and stays at the club we have 2 decent strikers, although Martins needs to learn how not to be such a one man band. We will still need to sign a good quality backup striker for those 2 and will have to keep Ameobi as 4th choice for now.

 

Then we need to move to the defence. I'm happy enough with Solano at RB for now. If Bernard doesn't make it back to his previous levels we then need a LB followed by a decent CB to partner Bramble until Bramble can also be released.

 

Then we move to the midfield. I'm happy with 2 from Butt, Dyer/Emre for now but we need to get rid of Parker and bring in a quality replacement because Dyer isn't ideal there anyway.

 

Therefore, my summary is this:

3rd Striker

LB

CB

CM

CB

 

I don't think the money will be there to do everything, so it's got to be staged. 

 

I know those obsessed with the defence won't agree with a 3rd striker as the top priority, but the fact is last summer the same people were saying defence was the priority so just ask yourself where we'd be now without Sibierski and especially without Martins. Scoring goals is the most difficult thing to do in football, if you don't score goals you are relegated.

[BONTEMPI]

The only thing we need is a takeover.

 

Is there no more bored rich americans that fancy a prem team yankee toon?

 

It's the only thing that will apeaze the fans now, because even if ratface does go, we'll still have the fat twat there, and we all know what will happen again and again and again!

 

 

[NUFC06]

Whatever players we sign in the summer it wont matters because we need good manager to coach them

Im almost 100% convinced that if we sign some good players in the summer and we have all of our players fit even then Roeder will be poor manager and we wont get any results.We'll be mediocre like we are now

The manager is the most important think in football imo

If we want to change our situation its not up to signing new players its up to changing the manager

I hope there wil be some change in the summer and Roeder will go otherwise we will be at the same place where we are right now

 

When i think what Keane has done with Sunderland i think that Shearer wont be so bad choice

He has enormous influence with the players.They will respect him alot more than Roeder imo and i think Alan can get the best from everyone.He'll be great motivator and also can bring quality players because he is notorious.The only question is that- is he ready to be manager at this high level

[Howaythelads]

No way am I going to read all of that.

 

However, I do hope writing it was cathartic for you.

 

Trying to fit in with the TT crowd again, mate? Anything with any depth to it and more than a couple of sentences and your mind goes into a spin? 

 

(Note the smiley thing acting as a clue)

[Howaythelads]

The only thing we need is a takeover.

 

Is there no more bored rich americans that fancy a prem team yankee toon?

 

It's the only thing that will apeaze the fans now, because even if ratface does go, we'll still have the fat t*** there, and we all know what will happen again and again and again!

 

 

 

This is what ruins threads. Nobody throws in a post praising how well the board has done in a thread like this, yet here we see a classic example of a post that is likely to start it all off again.

 

I will say again. There is no guarantee that a takeover will result in.....

 

1. Selection and appointment of the RIGHT MAN as manager.

2. Adequate backing in the transfer market of the RIGHT MAN by the new owners.

 

If there was a guarantee I'll be all for it, but there isn't.

 

Both 1 and 2 are required to give any club a chance plus some luck along the way.

[BONTEMPI]

The only thing we need is a takeover.

 

Is there no more bored rich americans that fancy a prem team yankee toon?

 

It's the only thing that will apeaze the fans now, because even if ratface does go, we'll still have the fat t*** there, and we all know what will happen again and again and again!

 

 

 

This is what ruins threads. Nobody throws in a post praising how well the board has done in a thread like this, yet here we see a classic example of a post that is likely to start it all off again.

 

I will say again. There is no guarantee that a takeover will result in.....

 

1. Selection and appointment of the RIGHT MAN as manager.

2. Adequate backing in the transfer market of the RIGHT MAN by the new owners.

 

If there was a guarantee I'll be all for it, but there isn't.

 

Both 1 and 2 are required to give any club a chance plus some luck along the way.

 

 

I know it will not guarantee success, but this club needs shaking up from the top 2 bottom!

 

And what praise should the board get? And exactly what for? I'd love to hear your reply on that one?

[Dave]

Of course there is no guarantee, i'm not sure where anyone says it's a sure-fire hit to change. But hasn't the current board failed overall at both 1 & 2 (failing to back Bobby when required, and backing Souness) then over the terms of their tenure?

[Cajun]

There is no gaurantee obviously but if you put a Nova 1.1 into an F1 race you aint gonna come close are you?

 

Souness was clearly a poor choice and Roeder was the no hassle option. No ambition and we basically got what we paid for.

[NUFC06]

The only thing we need is a takeover.

 

Is there no more bored rich americans that fancy a prem team yankee toon?

 

It's the only thing that will apeaze the fans now, because even if ratface does go, we'll still have the fat t*** there, and we all know what will happen again and again and again!

 

 

 

This is what ruins threads. Nobody throws in a post praising how well the board has done in a thread like this, yet here we see a classic example of a post that is likely to start it all off again.

 

I will say again. There is no guarantee that a takeover will result in.....

 

1. Selection and appointment of the RIGHT MAN as manager.

2. Adequate backing in the transfer market of the RIGHT MAN by the new owners.

 

If there was a guarantee I'll be all for it, but there isn't.

 

Both 1 and 2 are required to give any club a chance plus some luck along the way.

 

If  you think that way we may be stuck with Shepherd forever because we are going to be afraid of the takeover

In football as in life there is no guarantee for things

It wasnt guaranteed that Martins should adapt to english football too.That doesnt mean that we shouldnt have signed him

The only thing that is guaranteed for everyone is that we will die one day

For the rest you never know what will happen

 

[Guest Gemmill]

The concept of resigning ourselves to mediocrity for a few seasons with a view to kicking on from that is fundamentally flawed.  If you resign yourself to mediocrity, it becomes ingrained.  We will be mediocre long term UNLESS we do something about it short term.  You don't get long term success by settling for mediocrity in the short term.

 

How many transitional seasons have we had in a row now?  And what has it done for us?  We're going backwards fast.  Major surgery is required on the squad and on the coaching team.  Now I'm not going to turn this into a thread that has a go at Shepherd, but I'm going to make the following observation:

 

If he cannot see the depth of change that is required at the club, and if he doesn't start the ball rolling on some pretty major changes this summer, then a) we are going nowhere, and b) you would have to seriously question his ability to run a club of this size. 

 

I'm not going to sit here and say that I know who can do the job better than him, or claim that I could sort things out, as I recognise that it is a mammoth task.  But if he shies away from it and settles for things as they are, we are fucked long term.  The club is haemorhaging (sp) fans at the minute, we are now at a point where ALL of the good will built up in the Keegan and Robson eras is now completely drained, and this will be reflected in season ticket sales in the summer.  Now I'm not going to get into the rights and wrongs of that or kick off a soopafan debate, but people are going to walk away from NUFC this summer unless they see some sort of infrastructure for success being established.

 

We heard before Roeder got the job about how Shepherd knew that big changes were needed and how there was no way he was going to get the managerial appointment wrong, and ultimately he has.  He now has to bite the bullet and (for the second time in a row) sack a manager who should never have got the job in the first place.  This time though, he needs to have undergone proper due diligence to find a replacement with a vision and with the ability to make it a reality.  Easier said than done, but seriously, if we just allow this situation as it stands to continue, we are going to stagnate further.

 

This summer is massive for Freddy Shepherd and for NUFC.  We said the same last year, but it's absolutely critical that as a club we start getting things right.  Starting with giving Roeder his job at the academy back and sourcing a replacement.

[Guest Gemmill]

Fuck me, tl;dr.  I went all HTT there.

[Guest BigAl2]

We lack true quality from back to front (especially the back) we have a midfield of Munchkins not one of them is a 6 footer, of course you have to be able to play as well as being physically big but it's one thing that we have missed for a few seasons.

Bramble has had far too many chances now and its time for him to move on and the need for 2 full backs is obvious.

Up front we still lack a forward that has any guile about him and that includes Owen ,Bebatov springs to mind as the type of forward that I am talking about.

Martins does the unexpected but I don't think he can influence the style of play with clever movement and passing, if we had a clever player upfront who can use Martins and Owens talents that would be a move in the right direction (Oh for a 24 year old Peter Beardsley or Teddy Sheringham)

[Guest Gemmill]

we have a midfield of Munchkins not one of them is a 6 footer, of course you have to be able to play as well as being physically big but it's one thing that we have missed for a few seasons.

 

Didn't see the match yesterday, but judging by the radio commentary Amady Faye came on and pwned our whole midfield.  Jesus wept tbh.

[BottledDog]

The concept of resigning ourselves to mediocrity for a few seasons with a view to kicking on from that is fundamentally flawed.  If you resign yourself to mediocrity, it becomes ingrained.  We will be mediocre long term UNLESS we do something about it short term.  You don't get long term success by settling for mediocrity in the short term.

 

How many transitional seasons have we had in a row now?  And what has it done for us?  We're going backwards fast.  Major surgery is required on the squad and on the coaching team.  Now I'm not going to turn this into a thread that has a go at Shepherd, but I'm going to make the following observation:

 

If he cannot see the depth of change that is required at the club, and if he doesn't start the ball rolling on some pretty major changes this summer, then a) we are going nowhere, and b) you would have to seriously question his ability to run a club of this size. 

 

I'm not going to sit here and say that I know who can do the job better than him, or claim that I could sort things out, as I recognise that it is a mammoth task.  But if he shies away from it and settles for things as they are, we are fucked long term.  The club is haemorhaging (sp) fans at the minute, we are now at a point where ALL of the good will built up in the Keegan and Robson eras is now completely drained, and this will be reflected in season ticket sales in the summer.  Now I'm not going to get into the rights and wrongs of that or kick off a soopafan debate, but people are going to walk away from NUFC this summer unless they see some sort of infrastructure for success being established.

 

We heard before Roeder got the job about how Shepherd knew that big changes were needed and how there was no way he was going to get the managerial appointment wrong, and ultimately he has.  He now has to bite the bullet and (for the second time in a row) sack a manager who should never have got the job in the first place.  This time though, he needs to have undergone proper due diligence to find a replacement with a vision and with the ability to make it a reality.  Easier said than done, but seriously, if we just allow this situation as it stands to continue, we are going to stagnate further.

 

This summer is massive for Freddy Shepherd and for NUFC.  We said the same last year, but it's absolutely critical that as a club we start getting things right.  Starting with giving Roeder his job at the academy back and sourcing a replacement.

 

What about Joe Joyce? Give Roeder the reserves if you feel he is worth keeping. I still don't see any evidence of his academy revolution, just as I don't see any evidence that he would deserves the position of DOF.

[Cajun]

I remember Faye coming on to a chorus of boo's then got a cheer as his first touch was to give us back the ball.

[Guest Gemmill]

The concept of resigning ourselves to mediocrity for a few seasons with a view to kicking on from that is fundamentally flawed.  If you resign yourself to mediocrity, it becomes ingrained.  We will be mediocre long term UNLESS we do something about it short term.  You don't get long term success by settling for mediocrity in the short term.

 

How many transitional seasons have we had in a row now?  And what has it done for us?  We're going backwards fast.  Major surgery is required on the squad and on the coaching team.  Now I'm not going to turn this into a thread that has a go at Shepherd, but I'm going to make the following observation:

 

If he cannot see the depth of change that is required at the club, and if he doesn't start the ball rolling on some pretty major changes this summer, then a) we are going nowhere, and b) you would have to seriously question his ability to run a club of this size. 

 

I'm not going to sit here and say that I know who can do the job better than him, or claim that I could sort things out, as I recognise that it is a mammoth task.  But if he shies away from it and settles for things as they are, we are fucked long term.  The club is haemorhaging (sp) fans at the minute, we are now at a point where ALL of the good will built up in the Keegan and Robson eras is now completely drained, and this will be reflected in season ticket sales in the summer.  Now I'm not going to get into the rights and wrongs of that or kick off a soopafan debate, but people are going to walk away from NUFC this summer unless they see some sort of infrastructure for success being established.

 

We heard before Roeder got the job about how Shepherd knew that big changes were needed and how there was no way he was going to get the managerial appointment wrong, and ultimately he has.  He now has to bite the bullet and (for the second time in a row) sack a manager who should never have got the job in the first place.  This time though, he needs to have undergone proper due diligence to find a replacement with a vision and with the ability to make it a reality.  Easier said than done, but seriously, if we just allow this situation as it stands to continue, we are going to stagnate further.

 

This summer is massive for Freddy Shepherd and for NUFC.  We said the same last year, but it's absolutely critical that as a club we start getting things right.  Starting with giving Roeder his job at the academy back and sourcing a replacement.

 

What about Joe Joyce? Give Roeder the sodding reserves if you feel he is worth keeping.

 

I don't really, I just don't want to be handing over any more compensation to incompentents.  I've no idea what Joe Joyce is like, but if he's owt like any of the other appointments Roeder's made he'll be fucking mince anyway.

[Cajun]

Joyce came with a good reputation, Im sure he worked for the FA coaching coaches.

[Guest Gemmill]

Jesus lads, the main thrust of my post wasn't who should have the fucking academy job.