Newcastle given permission to speak to Mark Taylor

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

It's expected that players move, that's why we have things called contracts and transfer windows

 

It is not expected that your manager tells you he fancies a year off, you let him off his contract and he then proceeds to rape your club of the staff you pay wages to. They are employed by Bolton, not Fat Sam management inc.

 

Why the fuck if he is such a guru can he not hold interviews like any other normal person? Or are you saying there is only these two people who can do this?

 

FFS, Vic, it's pretty much standard business practice anywhere in the world. If a boss brings someone in, teaches them just how he likes everything done, and then eventually leaves the company for somewhere new, they'll try to bring their favorites to their new job with them. It happens everywhere, in every industry. People you've worked with before are more likely to want to work with you again. That's exactly why they say that "it's not what you know, it's who you know."

 

Bolton could try and fight it, but chances are Allardyce's people would rather come here and keep working with him then stay at Bolton without him, which is probably why Bolton has said OK to the talks. And why the hell would you want him to waste time conducting countless interviews when he already knows someone who's suited for the job and that he knows he can work with, when there's so much that has to get done over the summer regarding the shape of the club? If he can land one qualified staffer for a position he wants without conducting a drawn-out interview process, it leaves more time to address other problem areas.

 

it doesn't happen in every industry, that's total shit tbh. You might be thinking of head-hunting, but you don't get headhunted and get to bring your previous department with you. If anything, your previous staff vie for promotion for the job you vacated, which is what this bloke looked like had done. So why doesn't he want promotion at Bolton? can he not hack it?

 

and you aren't even in the least bit concerned that Sam has no other ideas other than to re-use his old staff? That doesn't bode well for his ability to work with 22 players who didn't play for him at Bolton does it?

 

The position is already taken, jesus wept I actually know what its like to teach kids at special school talking to you!

 

what position?

[YankeeToon]

it doesn't happen in every industry, that's total shit tbh.

 

You're right, it probably doesn't happen in the steelworking and heavy manufacturing industry too often. I just assumed that it was apparent we were discussing white-collar business.

 

You might be thinking of head-hunting, but you don't get headhunted and get to bring your previous department with you.

 

I may be wrong, but aren't you still in school? It's not an official practice, but it's what happens. If your boss has a liking for you and gets a new job, he calls up and says "Hey, I've got a position open at my new place and I want to bring you in. Interested?" At least, based on my experience and the expereince of just about everyone I know. It doesn't happen every single time anyone lands a new job, and it only happens if the person in question has the pull to hire new people, but it happens frequently.

 

If anything, your previous staff vie for promotion for the job you vacated, which is what this bloke looked like had done. So why doesn't he want promotion at Bolton? can he not hack it?

 

Not sure I follow your point here. I highly doubt that Mark Taylor was in consideration to replace Sam Allardyce or Sammy Lee, which I believe are the only recently-vacated Bolton positions.

 

and you aren't even in the least bit concerned that Sam has no other ideas other than to re-use his old staff? That doesn't bode well for his ability to work with 22 players who didn't play for him at Bolton does it?

 

Blatant straw-man argument. In the first part, you're stating that Sam has no other ideas other than to re-use his staff, based solely on your own feeling that he shouldn't bring his old staff with him. There's never been any indication at all that Allardyce would be incapable of finding anyone new for the position, just that he'd prefer to bring in someone he already knows is capable of the job. As I said earlier, that doesn't bother me at all. It saves time in filling one of the new positions he's established, allowing him to focus on finding people for the other positions.

 

As for the second part of your "argument," that's got to be one of the most ridiculous extrapolations I've ever seen. Because he wants to bring in his old sports medicine man, he's incapable of working with players other than his Bolton team? Even you can't seriously think that's a valid point. At least you could have mentioned Ben Haim with that to give some kind of credibility to it. Not that it would have given much.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

what? massive extrapolation? he can't work with another proffesional and needs his old staff - hardly a massive leap of mental ability is it.

 

for the record, i've worked in 4 different sectors at many different levels and I know for a fact it is not common practice to expect your headhunted targets to have to bring in their old staff to be able to do the job you hired them for. Sure, it happens, but quite rightly when you are talking about contracted staff you are seen as somewhat of the cunt by the other party, and quite rightly too. Football is not like many other industries, or even many white collar industries. Infact, people like this guy would have restrictive covenants just for this purpose, mind bolton were probably stupid enough not to use any and took sam on his word

 

if my memory serves me this taylor bloke is being offered promotion to general manager to stave off interest from sam

[toontownman]

anal nit-picking on a grand scale tbh.

[YankeeToon]

what? massive extrapolation? he can't work with another proffesional and needs his old staff - hardly a massive leap of mental ability is it.

 

Mental ability? No. In fact, I'd pretty much state that mental ability would be the exact opposite of what would be needed to make that particular leap. The man's a professional football manager. His job is to work with players. And you're using a strawman again, maintaining that his desire to bring in Taylor is proof that he CAN'T work with anyone else, rather than a sign that he'd prefer to work with someone he knows.

 

for the record, i've worked in 4 different sectors at many different levels and I know for a fact it is not common practice to expect your headhunted targets to have to bring in their old staff to be able to do the job you hired them for.

 

Same straw man again. We're not talking about him NEEDING to bring in his old staff in order to do his job properly. We're talking about a personal preference in hiring. Show me where Allardyce has said "If I can't get Mark Taylor on board, I don't have any other ideas."

 

Sure, it happens, but quite rightly when you are talking about contracted staff you are seen as somewhat of the cunt by the other party, and quite rightly too. Football is not like many other industries, or even many white collar industries. Infact, people like this guy would have restrictive covenants just for this purpose, mind bolton were probably stupid enough not to use any and took sam on his word

 

Finally, something we agree on. It's not a "nice" thing to do at all. It's very poor form, to say the least. But that's also not what we're talking about. You're trying to maintain that Allardyce should be held to a higher level than others, for no reason other than you don't like what he's doing. If you can tell me that Allardyce is the only manager in the history of the football world who has tried to bring some of his staff with him to a new job, then I'll say he's completely in the wrong. Otherwise, he's just manipiulating the system to his advantage like anyone else.

 

For the record, there are aspects of this deal that I'm not comfortable with at all. It's a shady thing to do to Bolton after 8 years at the club, and if he's willing to do it to Bolton, he'll be willing to do it to us when he leaves. It may show that he's a ruthless bastard with no loyalty, but I don't think it shows that he has a lack of ideas or that he won't be able to manage the team properly. 2 different things entirely.

 

if my memory serves me this taylor bloke is being offered promotion to general manager to stave off interest from sam

 

It doesn't. Bolton's Performance Director Mike Forde was offered the general manager position to try to keep him from defecting to us.

[Wullie]

Benitez has brought several of his key staff with him wherever he's been. He's rubbish though, it's not like he's competing in his second European Cup final in three years tomorrow night.

[Cajun]

what? massive extrapolation? he can't work with another proffesional and needs his old staff - hardly a massive leap of mental ability is it.

 

Mental ability? No. In fact, I'd pretty much state that mental ability would be the exact opposite of what would be needed to make that particular leap. The man's a professional football manager. His job is to work with players. And you're using a strawman again, maintaining that his desire to bring in Taylor is proof that he CAN'T work with anyone else, rather than a sign that he'd prefer to work with someone he knows.

 

for the record, i've worked in 4 different sectors at many different levels and I know for a fact it is not common practice to expect your headhunted targets to have to bring in their old staff to be able to do the job you hired them for.

 

Same straw man again. We're not talking about him NEEDING to bring in his old staff in order to do his job properly. We're talking about a personal preference in hiring. Show me where Allardyce has said "If I can't get Mark Taylor on board, I don't have any other ideas."

 

Sure, it happens, but quite rightly when you are talking about contracted staff you are seen as somewhat of the cunt by the other party, and quite rightly too. Football is not like many other industries, or even many white collar industries. Infact, people like this guy would have restrictive covenants just for this purpose, mind bolton were probably stupid enough not to use any and took sam on his word

 

Finally, something we agree on. It's not a "nice" thing to do at all. It's very poor form, to say the least. But that's also not what we're talking about. You're trying to maintain that Allardyce should be held to a higher level than others, for no reason other than you don't like what he's doing. If you can tell me that Allardyce is the only manager in the history of the football world who has tried to bring some of his staff with him to a new job, then I'll say he's completely in the wrong. Otherwise, he's just manipiulating the system to his advantage like anyone else.

 

For the record, there are aspects of this deal that I'm not comfortable with at all. It's a shady thing to do to Bolton after 8 years at the club, and if he's willing to do it to Bolton, he'll be willing to do it to us when he leaves. It may show that he's a ruthless bastard with no loyalty, but I don't think it shows that he has a lack of ideas or that he won't be able to manage the team properly. 2 different things entirely.

 

if my memory serves me this taylor bloke is being offered promotion to general manager to stave off interest from sam

 

It doesn't. Bolton's Performance Director Mike Forde was offered the general manager position to try to keep him from defecting to us.

 

Yankeetoon handing SSH's arse back on a plate

[Willow]

So basically Fat Sam has no clue how to recruit a new special team and has to resort to poaching his old staff, after assuring his chairman he was taking a break from football

 

strikes me as a cunt with no honour, and certainly no skills in what he claims to be master of. So who is responsible for Bolton's success? Sam or his cronies?

What a plonker wum.. You certainly believe everything you read it seems.

His backroom staff have proven to be good enough in the past and he has built up a solid friendship/working relationship with them over a number of years. You can buy in some of the best staff in the world but theres no gurantee they'll all like each other and gel as a unit at a new club.

Some of the Bolton staff are also coming to the end of their contracts right now so its no harm in asking if they're available. In any case, don't you want Newcastle to become successful?

 

I'd love to know what you'd do in his position right now.

[NUFC06]

So basically Fat Sam has no clue how to recruit a new special team and has to resort to poaching his old staff, after assuring his chairman he was taking a break from football

 

strikes me as a cunt with no honour, and certainly no skills in what he claims to be master of. So who is responsible for Bolton's success? Sam or his cronies?

What a plonker wum.. You certainly believe everything you read it seems.

His backroom staff have proven to be good enough in the past and he has built up a solid friendship/working relationship with them over a number of years. You can buy in some of the best staff in the world but theres no gurantee they'll all like each other and gel as a unit at a new club.

Some of the Bolton staff are also coming to the end of their contracts right now so its no harm in asking if they're available. In any case, don't you want Newcastle to become successful?

 

I'd love to know what you'd do in his position right now.

 

kill himself

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

So basically Fat Sam has no clue how to recruit a new special team and has to resort to poaching his old staff, after assuring his chairman he was taking a break from football

 

strikes me as a cunt with no honour, and certainly no skills in what he claims to be master of. So who is responsible for Bolton's success? Sam or his cronies?

What a plonker wum.. You certainly believe everything you read it seems.

His backroom staff have proven to be good enough in the past and he has built up a solid friendship/working relationship with them over a number of years. You can buy in some of the best staff in the world but theres no gurantee they'll all like each other and gel as a unit at a new club.

Some of the Bolton staff are also coming to the end of their contracts right now so its no harm in asking if they're available. In any case, don't you want Newcastle to become successful?

 

I'd love to know what you'd do in his position right now.

 

wtf are you on about believe everything I read?

[Robster]

I cant believe Vic would rather Sam interviewed a whole load of unknown people, of whom he has no idea of how they perform on a day to day basis, rather go with a tried, trusted and proven ex colleague.

Its a time for Newcastle to become stable.... Not take more risks with unknown quantities.

 

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

I cant believe Vic would rather Sam interviewed a whole load of unknown people, of whom he has no idea of how they perform on a day to day basis, rather go with a tried, trusted and proven ex colleague.

Its a time for Newcastle to become stable.... Not take more risks with unknown quantities.

 

 

do you even know what an interview process is?

 

how the fuck would you like it if you were the bolton chairman right now? Or a Bolton fan even, selling them out big time is Uncle Sam

 

And on the whole bringing people with you aspect, i've always been suspicious of the kinds of managers who always seem to take the same players round with them, I can't think of a top flight club with a manager like that currently.

[Wullie]

I cant believe Vic would rather Sam interviewed a whole load of unknown people, of whom he has no idea of how they perform on a day to day basis, rather go with a tried, trusted and proven ex colleague.

Its a time for Newcastle to become stable.... Not take more risks with unknown quantities.

 

 

do you even know what an interview process is?

 

how the fuck would you like it if you were the bolton chairman right now? Or a Bolton fan even, selling them out big time is Uncle Sam

 

And on the whole bringing people with you aspect, i've always been suspicious of the kinds of managers who always seem to take the same players round with them, I can't think of a top flight club with a manager like that currently.

 

Jose Mourinho?

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

I cant believe Vic would rather Sam interviewed a whole load of unknown people, of whom he has no idea of how they perform on a day to day basis, rather go with a tried, trusted and proven ex colleague.

Its a time for Newcastle to become stable.... Not take more risks with unknown quantities.

 

 

do you even know what an interview process is?

 

how the fuck would you like it if you were the bolton chairman right now? Or a Bolton fan even, selling them out big time is Uncle Sam

 

And on the whole bringing people with you aspect, i've always been suspicious of the kinds of managers who always seem to take the same players round with them, I can't think of a top flight club with a manager like that currently.

 

Jose Mourinho?

 

total cunt. case proven, prosecution rests

[midds]

I cant believe Vic would rather Sam interviewed a whole load of unknown people, of whom he has no idea of how they perform on a day to day basis, rather go with a tried, trusted and proven ex colleague.

Its a time for Newcastle to become stable.... Not take more risks with unknown quantities.

 

 

do you even know what an interview process is?

 

how the fuck would you like it if you were the bolton chairman right now? Or a Bolton fan even, selling them out big time is Uncle Sam

 

And on the whole bringing people with you aspect, i've always been suspicious of the kinds of managers who always seem to take the same players round with them, I can't think of a top flight club with a manager like that currently.

 

Jose Mourinho?

 

Red rag to a bull(shitter?).

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

I cant believe Vic would rather Sam interviewed a whole load of unknown people, of whom he has no idea of how they perform on a day to day basis, rather go with a tried, trusted and proven ex colleague.

Its a time for Newcastle to become stable.... Not take more risks with unknown quantities.

 

 

do you even know what an interview process is?

 

how the fuck would you like it if you were the bolton chairman right now? Or a Bolton fan even, selling them out big time is Uncle Sam

 

And on the whole bringing people with you aspect, i've always been suspicious of the kinds of managers who always seem to take the same players round with them, I can't think of a top flight club with a manager like that currently.

 

Jose Mourinho?

 

that't only 2 players, and they were arguably superior replacements, i'm on about the likes of manager who'll replace players of equal ability just because they are former players

[Lotus]

What a ridiculous topic to pretend to be incensed over.

[Robster]

I cant believe Vic would rather Sam interviewed a whole load of unknown people, of whom he has no idea of how they perform on a day to day basis, rather go with a tried, trusted and proven ex colleague.

Its a time for Newcastle to become stable.... Not take more risks with unknown quantities.

 

 

do you even know what an interview process is?

 

how the f*** would you like it if you were the bolton chairman right now? Or a Bolton fan even, selling them out big time is Uncle Sam

 

And on the whole bringing people with you aspect, i've always been suspicious of the kinds of managers who always seem to take the same players round with them, I can't think of a top flight club with a manager like that currently.

 

I do.

Its where you accept either a few or many written applications from people who, on the whole, you do not know and have never met before. You may ask them to do a shitty Pyschometric test.

You then interview each one and based on that first meeting and the test results, chose a selection to come back. Then maybe after 2nd interviews you may ask one or two of them to come back again.

Eventually, you choose the one who has the best CV combined with the best interview.

However, this is all a risk as, as I am sure know, some people are very very good interviewers, are great at writing a very good CV but shit at their job and in pressure situations.

We dont need it and I am happy for Sam to choose to speak to someone who he know exactly how he works.

 

Granted, interviewing totally different people may bring better success but who know. At the minute Sam needs solidity and security

[Dave]

What a ridiculous topic to pretend to be incensed over.

 

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

I cant believe Vic would rather Sam interviewed a whole load of unknown people, of whom he has no idea of how they perform on a day to day basis, rather go with a tried, trusted and proven ex colleague.

Its a time for Newcastle to become stable.... Not take more risks with unknown quantities.

 

 

do you even know what an interview process is?

 

how the f*** would you like it if you were the bolton chairman right now? Or a Bolton fan even, selling them out big time is Uncle Sam

 

And on the whole bringing people with you aspect, i've always been suspicious of the kinds of managers who always seem to take the same players round with them, I can't think of a top flight club with a manager like that currently.

 

I do.

Its where you accept either a few or many written applications from people who, on the whole, you do not know and have never met before. You may ask them to do a shitty Pyschometric test.

You then interview each one and based on that first meeting and the test results, chose a selection to come back. Then maybe after 2nd interviews you may ask one or two of them to come back again.

Eventually, you choose the one who has the best CV combined with the best interview.

However, this is all a risk as, as I am sure know, some people are very very good interviewers, are great at writing a very good CV but shit at their job and in pressure situations.

We dont need it and I am happy for Sam to choose to speak to someone who he know exactly how he works.

 

Granted, interviewing totally different people may bring better success but who know. At the minute Sam needs solidity and security

 

fuck they're all out tonight

 

 

anyhoo, yes i'm sure the process will be as complicated as the one above, what with no-one in football knowing anyone else and any old random being able to completely make up a CV for a career in [frankly whatever the fuck this blokes is supposed to be good at]. fuckit, let's just buy bolton football club and be done with it

[Guest TheOrder]

What a ridiculous topic to pretend to be incensed over.

 

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

What a ridiculous topic to pretend to be incensed over.

 

 

is he pretending that is his opinion though?

[Guest NUFCnutter]

Just from personal experience of myself and my mates I have seen several instances where someone has been headhunted because they can do a job well, and they bring contacts with them, and occassionally exceptional staff that work under them. Why should football be any different?

[Wullie]

I cant believe Vic would rather Sam interviewed a whole load of unknown people, of whom he has no idea of how they perform on a day to day basis, rather go with a tried, trusted and proven ex colleague.

Its a time for Newcastle to become stable.... Not take more risks with unknown quantities.

 

 

do you even know what an interview process is?

 

how the fuck would you like it if you were the bolton chairman right now? Or a Bolton fan even, selling them out big time is Uncle Sam

 

And on the whole bringing people with you aspect, i've always been suspicious of the kinds of managers who always seem to take the same players round with them, I can't think of a top flight club with a manager like that currently.

 

Jose Mourinho?

 

total cunt. case proven, prosecution rests

 

[Robster]

 

 

f*** they're all out tonight

 

 

anyhoo, yes i'm sure the process will be as complicated as the one above, what with no-one in football knowing anyone else and any old random being able to completely make up a CV for a career in [frankly whatever the f*** this blokes is supposed to be good at]. fuckit, let's just buy bolton football club and be done with it

 

i thought your point was that you werent happy with him just bringing in someone he knows. Would you rather he brought in a top class bloke thats sitting on the dole twiddling his thumbs ?

If your just feeling sad for Bolton then I cant reason with you.