Big Sam issues warning to O-Nut

[Guest gggg]

In which case, why did Souness get so much stick.

 

Souness took us from 5th to the bottom half not the other way round.

[Guest Nappy Rash]

Why did Roeder get so much stick then?

 

I guess he over-achieved if owt by this logic 

[Cajun]

Why did Roeder get so much stick then?

 

I guess he over-achieved if owt by this logic 

 

Because we played shite football, most of the games we won we got very lucky. We took 1 point of a shocking Charlton side and generally looked like we were going backwards!

[Guest Knightrider]

Why did Roeder get so much stick then?

 

He only got stick when it become clear the team were going nowhere under him and again, how many people were expecting never mind demanding a top 6 finish under him? many people were happy for him to sort out the real issues at the club and then move on from there, only he obviously never had the skills. Well Big Sam does so will get far more patience from fans, providing that on the pitch the team appears to be heaidng in the right direction. Fans aren't daft, they know when a manager isn't capable of doing anything regardless of how long they've been in the job or how much money they've had and both Souness and Roeder fell into that category and should never have been appointed in the first place.

 

Anyway I agree with others, yes top 7 should be the aim and will be no doubt but it won't be any kind of failure if we don't achieve that so long as the team are heading in the right direction and while we all like to think we have as good a team as others and just as many stars, the others have a head start on us in many areas, like a settled team that knows its strengths and weaknesses and its managers tactics, Big Sam will come in and change the entire culture of the club on and off the pitch and that will take more than 9 months to digest, understand and get to grips with.

[Guest Nappy Rash]

Compare Roeders record against the top 4, to lets say Benitez...

 

Oh thats right he couldnt motivate the players, they motivated themselves for the big games.

 

Everything else in between was luck, apart from when we lost, that was Roeders fault  :lol:

 

Think thats all bases covered with Neurotic Online logic 

[Guest Nappy Rash]

Remind me where Roeder finished in 05/06 and who above?

 

Then also remind me who had a worse record than him in 2007 when we sacked him?

 

If you look hard enough for an excuse you'll always find one and you'll always fool the fools 

[Optimistic Nut]

Allardyce & Owen/Viduka alone should add 10-15 points to the total. That's before any defenders he buys.

[Guest Nappy Rash]

And Titus must be another few 

[Guest Knightrider]

Remind me where Roeder finished in 05/06 and who above?

 

Then also remind me who had a worse record than him when we sacked him?

 

If you look hard enough for an excuse you'll always find one and you'll always fool the fools 

 

Our high finish post Souness had more to do with the feel good factor that removing Souness created than anything Roeder did which even by his own admission wasn't a lot as the players went out relaxed and with one aim - to claw back some pride. Of course only an idiot would interpret that as him being good enough and then give him the job...

 

Anyway everything is a moot point as he was shite whatever spin you put on it and he's gone, we have a new manager, a capable one, so who cares about past issues.

 

People it seems like a whinge whatever and are never happy.

 

"Happy, I don't like that, Big Sam has to finish 7th or he loses my vote"

 

Why does he HAVE to finish 7th or he's a failure. Why not lets take each game at a time and at the end of his time here judge whether he's been a failure or not.

 

Howay lads man, we have a competent manager and a new owner, which we all craved for this time last season.

[Optimistic Nut]

If we finish lower than 7th, that means there's been a helluva lot of matches home and away against sh*t opposition where we'll have dropped silly points. I don't see us doing that under Allardyce, so 7th is where I expect, and think Sam will take us.

[Guest gggg]

Neither do I, when he's actually had time to get his ideas in place. I don't expect him to do that straight away in the first season.

[Optimistic Nut]

Allardyce with the squad he'll have in September imo would finish 5th if Allardyce had them for a couple of seasons, 7th place is giving him some leeway imo.

[Guest Nappy Rash]

We already have the nucleus of a squad that should be in Europe every season, a Manager with a pre-season, a transfer budget and no interfering should be able to cultivate that immediately.

 

You dont even have to be that good a Manager to get the likes of Given, Solano, Taylor, Milner, Dyer, Emre, Butt, Barton, Duff, Charlie, Owen, Viduka, Oba into bloody Europe as Roeder has proven.

 

Outside the top 4 there was nothing, obviously this summer that will change, but so will our position.

 

Its not even beyond the realms of possibility that with only one extra player fit (Owen) we could have finished way above where a lot of people on here would be happy for Fat Sam to finish.

[Optimistic Nut]

Last season, Sibierski, Ameobi & Martins scored around 15 league goals between them didn't they? Next season, I'd expect Martins, Owen (or his replacement), Viduka & Ameobi to score at least 40 goals between them. That doesn't take good management, just good players. Throw in the fact Allardyce is, along with Jol imo, the best manager outside of the top 4, and I really can't see why 7th shouldn't be the bare minimum we should expect.

[Guest Nappy Rash]

Me either, nor why we should lower our expectations for Fat Sam when we havent for anyone else?

 

Blokes like Daglish with actual credentials aswell, crazy.

[Guest Knightrider]

We already have the nucleus of a squad that should be in Europe every season, a Manager with a pre-season, a transfer budget and no interfering should be able to cultivate that immediately.

 

You dont even have to be that good a Manager to get the likes of Given, Solano, Taylor, Milner, Dyer, Emre, Butt, Barton, Duff, Charlie, Owen, Viduka, Oba into bloody Europe as Roeder has proven.

 

Outside the top 4 there was nothing, obviously this summer that will change, but so will our position.

 

Its not even beyond the realms of possibility that with only one extra player fit (Owen) we could have finished way above where a lot of people on here would be happy for Fat Sam to finish.

 

All true and I tend to agree but if this management lark was as easy as sending the best 11 players out to win games, we'd all be doing it. I honestly think we have bigger problems than we realise and some are underestimating the competition.

 

We have many players lacking in confidence and just playing won't eradicate this, we also have many under performing players and at current our squad doesn't have any real shape or pattern to it, furthermore if as many new faces come in as expected, these players and this new team will take time to gell. It will take months of hard work on the training pitch to turn our team into a solid competent one that can keep clean sheets and score goals as a unit. Individually we may have the players (or a few of them) but we've always had that and that alone doesn't guarantee things. I'm probably being conservative here I know but I don't want to build my hopes up too much only to see them dashed so therefore my expectations for next season are quite sedated and I'd be very happy with a top 10 finish so long as we are heading in the right direction on the pitch and just as importantly off it as that's the key to long-term success and not fly by night success.

 

What I fear is we'll start the season well (honeymoon period etc.) and be up there at October time, and that people will expect us to stay there, and when it doesn't happen, people turn on the manager.

 

I think Big Sam is correct in preaching caution and I hope fans don't get too heady with their expectations because we are a fucked club and that won't be reversed over night.

 

I'd be happy if we did nowt all season until the final few months, ending strongly like we did under Roeder as caretaker, then aim high the following season like FS should have done in his manager search after Roeder took us to 7th.

 

Anyway regardless, I am convinced or rather very positive that say in a few years time, we'll be doing alreet because we have a top manager on board and a new owner to come in who will be demanding success himself.

[mrmojorisin75]

Me either, nor why we should lower our expectations for Fat Sam when we havent for anyone else?

 

Blokes like Daglish with actual credentials aswell, crazy.

 

fucken spot on mate

 

fat sam is also probably gonna have as much backing financially & otherwise as any manager we're had in a long while too

 

i don't think a knee-jerk sacking is in order if it all doesn't go totally right next season but i agree with the sentiment

 

it's time we had a manager to get these well paid bastards running through walls for the club and seeing a draw at charlton or somewhere as a result

[Optimistic Nut]

We already have the nucleus of a squad that should be in Europe every season, a Manager with a pre-season, a transfer budget and no interfering should be able to cultivate that immediately.

 

You dont even have to be that good a Manager to get the likes of Given, Solano, Taylor, Milner, Dyer, Emre, Butt, Barton, Duff, Charlie, Owen, Viduka, Oba into bloody Europe as Roeder has proven.

 

Outside the top 4 there was nothing, obviously this summer that will change, but so will our position.

 

Its not even beyond the realms of possibility that with only one extra player fit (Owen) we could have finished way above where a lot of people on here would be happy for Fat Sam to finish.

 

All true and I tend to agree but if this management lark was as easy as sending the best 11 players out to win games, we'd all be doing it. I honestly think we have bigger problems than we realise and some are underestimating the competition.

 

We have many players lacking in confidence and just playing won't eradicate this, we also have many under performing players and at current our squad doesn't have any real shape or pattern to it, furthermore if as many new faces come in as expected, these players and this new team will take time to gell. It will take months of hard work on the training pitch to turn our team into a solid competent one that can keep clean sheets and score goals as a unit. Individually we may have the players (or a few of them) but we've always had that and that alone doesn't guarantee things. I'm probably being conservative here I know but I don't want to build my hopes up too much only to see them dashed so therefore my expectations for next season are quite sedated and I'd be very happy with a top 10 finish so long as we are heading in the right direction on the pitch and just as importantly off it as that's the key to long-term success and not fly by night success.

 

What I fear is we'll start the season well (honeymoon period etc.) and be up there at October time, and that people will expect us to stay there, and when it doesn't happen, people turn on the manager.

 

I think Big Sam is correct in preaching caution and I hope fans don't get too heady with their expectations because we are a f***** club and that won't be reversed over night.

 

I'd be happy if we did nowt all season until the final few months, ending strongly like we did under Roeder as caretaker, then aim high the following season like FS should have done in his manager search after Roeder took us to 7th.

 

Anyway regardless, I am convinced or rather very positive that say in a few years time, we'll be doing alreet because we have a top manager on board and a new owner to come in who will be demanding success himself.

 

Do you think we're in any worse a position than what Portsmouth were when Redknapp took over? He made wholesale changes in a short period of time and took them halfway up the league. They were in the sh*t with players like Robert, Mbesuma, Viafara, Priske, Silva, etc. He came in, sorted them out player-wise, and they were unrecognisable. Just took a half decent coach to organise them. I think Allardyce is a much better coach than Redknapp and will easily be able to do the same with us.

[mrmojorisin75]

We already have the nucleus of a squad that should be in Europe every season, a Manager with a pre-season, a transfer budget and no interfering should be able to cultivate that immediately.

 

You dont even have to be that good a Manager to get the likes of Given, Solano, Taylor, Milner, Dyer, Emre, Butt, Barton, Duff, Charlie, Owen, Viduka, Oba into bloody Europe as Roeder has proven.

 

Outside the top 4 there was nothing, obviously this summer that will change, but so will our position.

 

Its not even beyond the realms of possibility that with only one extra player fit (Owen) we could have finished way above where a lot of people on here would be happy for Fat Sam to finish.

 

All true and I tend to agree but if this management lark was as easy as sending the best 11 players out to win games, we'd all be doing it. I honestly think we have bigger problems than we realise and some are underestimating the competition.

 

We have many players lacking in confidence and just playing won't eradicate this, we also have many under performing players and at current our squad doesn't have any real shape or pattern to it, furthermore if as many new faces come in as expected, these players and this new team will take time to gell. It will take months of hard work on the training pitch to turn our team into a solid competent one that can keep clean sheets and score goals as a unit. Individually we may have the players (or a few of them) but we've always had that and that alone doesn't guarantee things. I'm probably being conservative here I know but I don't want to build my hopes up too much only to see them dashed so therefore my expectations for next season are quite sedated and I'd be very happy with a top 10 finish so long as we are heading in the right direction on the pitch and just as importantly off it as that's the key to long-term success and not fly by night success.

 

What I fear is we'll start the season well (honeymoon period etc.) and be up there at October time, and that people will expect us to stay there, and when it doesn't happen, people turn on the manager.

 

I think Big Sam is correct in preaching caution and I hope fans don't get too heady with their expectations because we are a f***** club and that won't be reversed over night.

 

I'd be happy if we did nowt all season until the final few months, ending strongly like we did under Roeder as caretaker, then aim high the following season like FS should have done in his manager search after Roeder took us to 7th.

 

Anyway regardless, I am convinced or rather very positive that say in a few years time, we'll be doing alreet because we have a top manager on board and a new owner to come in who will be demanding success himself.

 

couple of things - i think you are firstly being a little conservative but more importantly i think you're overestimating the opposition for the types of places we're on about....everton/bolton/villa are no great shakes it's just we've been worse than them for a while now, well not villa of course

 

we beat spurs twice last season, lets not forget, with a poor manager and injuries galore regardless of how much they harp on about how well they played we still beat 'em

 

as for the bedding in time thing in my opinion it all depends on the players - if they're of good enough quality they'll gel regardless of time...look at chel$ki's first season under ranieri....with GOOD players they still gelled and were up there most of the season (they finished 2nd right?) so while we're not gonna obviously spend 100m like they did that summer if we spend an amount and spend it well then why can't we push the other teams?

[Guest Sniffer]

Don't agree at all. Sam is merely covering his arse.

 

With the squad we should have by the time the season starts, 5th spot is the target with a CL position representing a stretch goal. If we go into this season  expecting anything less then it smacks of lack of ambition. I have no problem with Allardyce messing with the infrastructure of the club, but on the day it's eleven against eleven and whatever way you look at it, dropping points against poor teams is unacceptable. I don't expect  to drop easy points  this time around...not in a few years as some people are comfortable with apparently.....so when you look at the teams outside the top four from last season, we should be able to beat them with a well prepared, motivated team which were qualities lacking last season.  These are Sam's strengths as I  understand him so if he can get the likes of n'zogbia and duff back on track plus we are easily capable of seeing off the likes of everton and reading which only leaves spurs as serious competition. 

[Guest Knightrider]

We already have the nucleus of a squad that should be in Europe every season, a Manager with a pre-season, a transfer budget and no interfering should be able to cultivate that immediately.

 

You dont even have to be that good a Manager to get the likes of Given, Solano, Taylor, Milner, Dyer, Emre, Butt, Barton, Duff, Charlie, Owen, Viduka, Oba into bloody Europe as Roeder has proven.

 

Outside the top 4 there was nothing, obviously this summer that will change, but so will our position.

 

Its not even beyond the realms of possibility that with only one extra player fit (Owen) we could have finished way above where a lot of people on here would be happy for Fat Sam to finish.

 

All true and I tend to agree but if this management lark was as easy as sending the best 11 players out to win games, we'd all be doing it. I honestly think we have bigger problems than we realise and some are underestimating the competition.

 

We have many players lacking in confidence and just playing won't eradicate this, we also have many under performing players and at current our squad doesn't have any real shape or pattern to it, furthermore if as many new faces come in as expected, these players and this new team will take time to gell. It will take months of hard work on the training pitch to turn our team into a solid competent one that can keep clean sheets and score goals as a unit. Individually we may have the players (or a few of them) but we've always had that and that alone doesn't guarantee things. I'm probably being conservative here I know but I don't want to build my hopes up too much only to see them dashed so therefore my expectations for next season are quite sedated and I'd be very happy with a top 10 finish so long as we are heading in the right direction on the pitch and just as importantly off it as that's the key to long-term success and not fly by night success.

 

What I fear is we'll start the season well (honeymoon period etc.) and be up there at October time, and that people will expect us to stay there, and when it doesn't happen, people turn on the manager.

 

I think Big Sam is correct in preaching caution and I hope fans don't get too heady with their expectations because we are a f***** club and that won't be reversed over night.

 

I'd be happy if we did nowt all season until the final few months, ending strongly like we did under Roeder as caretaker, then aim high the following season like FS should have done in his manager search after Roeder took us to 7th.

 

Anyway regardless, I am convinced or rather very positive that say in a few years time, we'll be doing alreet because we have a top manager on board and a new owner to come in who will be demanding success himself.

 

Do you think we're in any worse a position than what Portsmouth were when Redknapp took over? He made wholesale changes in a short period of time and took them halfway up the league. They were in the sh*t with players like Robert, Mbesuma, Viafara, Priske, Silva, etc. He came in, sorted them out player-wise, and they were unrecognisable. Just took a half decent coach to organise them. I think Allardyce is a much better coach than Redknapp and will easily be able to do the same with us.

 

Redknapp knows that place inside out so didn't exactly have to start afresh and while his impact has been huge, their problems weren't as big as ours and lets not forget about the pressure aspect, all he has to do there is keep them up and he's a success and that makes managing a whole lot easier. I'm not making excuses here BTW for Big Sam, had he taken over from Sir Bobby when we finished 5th I'd be expecting a top 5 finish and actually think we'd have had that under him but this Newcastle is a world away from that Newcastle. He's taken over a club where half the team have zero respect for the shirt or the staff, where the rest lack motivation, confidence and are underperforming, we also have a side that is unbalanced, new faces will need to gel, it will take months for his ideas and methods to register never mind to get to grips with, the players are in for a culture shock when they come back for pre-season training. Add on top of that the teams who are above us having had at least 2 years of consistent building already in place, their own new faces to come in to improve them further and all kinds of things.

 

Don't get me wrong I hope we do do as well as you and others are hoping for or expecting, I'm just keeping my own expectations low for now because I don't believe things will change overnight.

[Guest Sniffer]

Keep them low and you won't be disappointed. Are you Homer?

[Guest Knightrider]

Keep them low and you won't be disappointed. Are you Homer?

 

Yes, I am a yellow drawing.

[mrmojorisin75]

We already have the nucleus of a squad that should be in Europe every season, a Manager with a pre-season, a transfer budget and no interfering should be able to cultivate that immediately.

 

You dont even have to be that good a Manager to get the likes of Given, Solano, Taylor, Milner, Dyer, Emre, Butt, Barton, Duff, Charlie, Owen, Viduka, Oba into bloody Europe as Roeder has proven.

 

Outside the top 4 there was nothing, obviously this summer that will change, but so will our position.

 

Its not even beyond the realms of possibility that with only one extra player fit (Owen) we could have finished way above where a lot of people on here would be happy for Fat Sam to finish.

 

All true and I tend to agree but if this management lark was as easy as sending the best 11 players out to win games, we'd all be doing it. I honestly think we have bigger problems than we realise and some are underestimating the competition.

 

We have many players lacking in confidence and just playing won't eradicate this, we also have many under performing players and at current our squad doesn't have any real shape or pattern to it, furthermore if as many new faces come in as expected, these players and this new team will take time to gell. It will take months of hard work on the training pitch to turn our team into a solid competent one that can keep clean sheets and score goals as a unit. Individually we may have the players (or a few of them) but we've always had that and that alone doesn't guarantee things. I'm probably being conservative here I know but I don't want to build my hopes up too much only to see them dashed so therefore my expectations for next season are quite sedated and I'd be very happy with a top 10 finish so long as we are heading in the right direction on the pitch and just as importantly off it as that's the key to long-term success and not fly by night success.

 

What I fear is we'll start the season well (honeymoon period etc.) and be up there at October time, and that people will expect us to stay there, and when it doesn't happen, people turn on the manager.

 

I think Big Sam is correct in preaching caution and I hope fans don't get too heady with their expectations because we are a f***** club and that won't be reversed over night.

 

I'd be happy if we did nowt all season until the final few months, ending strongly like we did under Roeder as caretaker, then aim high the following season like FS should have done in his manager search after Roeder took us to 7th.

 

Anyway regardless, I am convinced or rather very positive that say in a few years time, we'll be doing alreet because we have a top manager on board and a new owner to come in who will be demanding success himself.

 

Do you think we're in any worse a position than what Portsmouth were when Redknapp took over? He made wholesale changes in a short period of time and took them halfway up the league. They were in the sh*t with players like Robert, Mbesuma, Viafara, Priske, Silva, etc. He came in, sorted them out player-wise, and they were unrecognisable. Just took a half decent coach to organise them. I think Allardyce is a much better coach than Redknapp and will easily be able to do the same with us.

 

Redknapp knows that place inside out so didn't exactly have to start afresh and while his impact has been huge, their problems weren't as big as ours and lets not forget about the pressure aspect, all he has to do there is keep them up and he's a success and that makes managing a whole lot easier. I'm not making excuses here BTW for Big Sam, had he taken over from Sir Bobby when we finished 5th I'd be expecting a top 5 finish and actually think we'd have had that under him but this Newcastle is a world away from that Newcastle. He's taken over a club where half the team have zero respect for the shirt or the staff, where the rest lack motivation, confidence and are underperforming, we also have a side that is unbalanced, new faces will need to gel, it will take months for his ideas and methods to register never mind to get to grips with, the players are in for a culture shock when they come back for pre-season training. Add on top of that the teams who are above us having had at least 2 years of consistent building already in place, their own new faces to come in to improve them further and all kinds of things.

 

Don't get me wrong I hope we do do as well as you and others are hoping for or expecting, I'm just keeping my own expectations low for now because I don't believe things will change overnight.

 

OR the players might come back for pre-season, see that they've got a manager they shouldn't fuck with or he'll bin them, they've got professional training regimes and are being taught tactics...they might all take to it like a fish to water and thus improve on pretty much everything from last season

 

and who knows the new signings might do the same meaning we have lift off

 

gonna be interesting to find out eh?

[Guest Knightrider]

We already have the nucleus of a squad that should be in Europe every season, a Manager with a pre-season, a transfer budget and no interfering should be able to cultivate that immediately.

 

You dont even have to be that good a Manager to get the likes of Given, Solano, Taylor, Milner, Dyer, Emre, Butt, Barton, Duff, Charlie, Owen, Viduka, Oba into bloody Europe as Roeder has proven.

 

Outside the top 4 there was nothing, obviously this summer that will change, but so will our position.

 

Its not even beyond the realms of possibility that with only one extra player fit (Owen) we could have finished way above where a lot of people on here would be happy for Fat Sam to finish.

 

All true and I tend to agree but if this management lark was as easy as sending the best 11 players out to win games, we'd all be doing it. I honestly think we have bigger problems than we realise and some are underestimating the competition.

 

We have many players lacking in confidence and just playing won't eradicate this, we also have many under performing players and at current our squad doesn't have any real shape or pattern to it, furthermore if as many new faces come in as expected, these players and this new team will take time to gell. It will take months of hard work on the training pitch to turn our team into a solid competent one that can keep clean sheets and score goals as a unit. Individually we may have the players (or a few of them) but we've always had that and that alone doesn't guarantee things. I'm probably being conservative here I know but I don't want to build my hopes up too much only to see them dashed so therefore my expectations for next season are quite sedated and I'd be very happy with a top 10 finish so long as we are heading in the right direction on the pitch and just as importantly off it as that's the key to long-term success and not fly by night success.

 

What I fear is we'll start the season well (honeymoon period etc.) and be up there at October time, and that people will expect us to stay there, and when it doesn't happen, people turn on the manager.

 

I think Big Sam is correct in preaching caution and I hope fans don't get too heady with their expectations because we are a f***** club and that won't be reversed over night.

 

I'd be happy if we did nowt all season until the final few months, ending strongly like we did under Roeder as caretaker, then aim high the following season like FS should have done in his manager search after Roeder took us to 7th.

 

Anyway regardless, I am convinced or rather very positive that say in a few years time, we'll be doing alreet because we have a top manager on board and a new owner to come in who will be demanding success himself.

 

Do you think we're in any worse a position than what Portsmouth were when Redknapp took over? He made wholesale changes in a short period of time and took them halfway up the league. They were in the sh*t with players like Robert, Mbesuma, Viafara, Priske, Silva, etc. He came in, sorted them out player-wise, and they were unrecognisable. Just took a half decent coach to organise them. I think Allardyce is a much better coach than Redknapp and will easily be able to do the same with us.

 

Redknapp knows that place inside out so didn't exactly have to start afresh and while his impact has been huge, their problems weren't as big as ours and lets not forget about the pressure aspect, all he has to do there is keep them up and he's a success and that makes managing a whole lot easier. I'm not making excuses here BTW for Big Sam, had he taken over from Sir Bobby when we finished 5th I'd be expecting a top 5 finish and actually think we'd have had that under him but this Newcastle is a world away from that Newcastle. He's taken over a club where half the team have zero respect for the shirt or the staff, where the rest lack motivation, confidence and are underperforming, we also have a side that is unbalanced, new faces will need to gel, it will take months for his ideas and methods to register never mind to get to grips with, the players are in for a culture shock when they come back for pre-season training. Add on top of that the teams who are above us having had at least 2 years of consistent building already in place, their own new faces to come in to improve them further and all kinds of things.

 

Don't get me wrong I hope we do do as well as you and others are hoping for or expecting, I'm just keeping my own expectations low for now because I don't believe things will change overnight.

 

OR the players might come back for pre-season, see that they've got a manager they shouldn't fuck with or he'll bin them, they've got professional training regimes and are being taught tactics...they might all take to it like a fish to water and thus improve on pretty much everything from last season

 

and who knows the new signings might do the same meaning we have lift off

 

gonna be interesting to find out eh?

 

Aye true, and that's the hope. Long-term and I've always maintained this, he'll do wonders here as he's arguably the best manager we've had in terms of all-round skills if not for experience and CV.