nufcjmc Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 If he doesn't finish 7th, he's failed. Long-term plan or no long-term plan. I hope your joking. Why? We're way behind the top 4, we're behind Spurs & Everton but with 3 signings in the areas we're very weak, we can bridge that gap. We're in the group with Bolton, Blackburn, Villa, etc. at the minute. Allardyce alone imo will add 10 points to our tally (no way would we have lost some of those sh*te home games last season with him in charge), so as we stand, I'm considering us as a 50-55 points a season team. With more signings, that should become 60-65. But if you think if he doesnt finish at least 7th he's failed then your an idiot. After everything that has gone on at this club, and after the past two seasons we have just had, a bit of stability and signs of improvement will be a great start. You cant go from a rotten club playing terrible football to finishing in the top 6-7 within 1 close season. Be realistic man! It was only a year ago a season combined with Souness & Roeder's management took us to 7th. Last year, Roeder was shocking. I'll ask you this, would we have finished where we did last season had Allardyce been in charge? Your question is totally irrelavant. We finsihed 7th under Roeder after Souness was bootedand the whole club got a temporary lift. There was no pressure on Roeder at the time to get results which also helped. You honestly think we started playing amazing football when Souness left and Roeder took over? No we didnt, there was a slight improvement and thats it. We got some good results and some lucky ones. Since SBR left the football has been nothing short of horrible for 90% of the games. Boring, Boring football, with the occasional canny game thrown in. This club is on the up, but at theminute, as it stands, there still a shit load of work to be done, and its people like you are a cancer to the club, who after 1 season, Sam doesnt finifh in top 7 and you say he has failed. How can this club ever be a success when people are already talking about failure? sort of off topic but the club has been let down badly season after season so much promise sometimes massive investment and all for nothing, not that I'm not proud of the club and what we have done but even with massive changes until we start consistantly winning games and finishing top 6 then people are going to start voiceing concerns its a fans right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza ladra Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I can see your point and by no means do i want to stop the good vibes but thinking that way also means thinking that teams around us will also not try to improve. I can see us going up the table how competitive we are when it comes to places all comes down to the players we bring in, how fit the squad stays and how long our cup runs I suppose it is not just as simple as we get better so our table does. Look, a lot went wrong over the past couple of seasons. Can't be that bad again. Can't be. Surely. But even if everything goes wrong again, I mean EVERYTHING.... we are better off now. Allardyce is a better manager than Roeder/Souness. He will do better. I'm positive. And the competition we're talking about here (Not the top four)... Spurs, Villa, Everton, West Ham, Blackburn. They'd kill to have talent like Owen, Martins, Barton, Duff, Milner, Dyer, Emre, Taylor, and Given. We have a lot of talented players. It is time for those players to deliver. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I don't think its unrealistic to think Manchester United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal will definitely finish above us. I see no reason why Everton and Spurs will not look to be around the same positions next season, they both look like investing in their squads. There is normally a team or two who do a lot better than expected (Reading, Wigan etc..). Teams like Villa, West Ham and Portsmouth will no doubt have quite a bit to spend over the summer, even Birmingham have been linked to a take over by the 5th richest man in the world! Its not completely out of the question (and a failure) in my opinion for us to finish out of the top 7. Allardyce has come into a shambles of a club, its rumoured he will have a fair bit to spend but we have seen before this doesn't always mean we should shoot up the table (West Ham). As long as we look a lot more organised on the pitch, play better football and don't look as if we have struggled/fluked the points we have managed to get I wouldn't be calling it a failure to fall a little short of top 7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Exactly. People are talking about finishing 7th as if it's finishing 3rd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazza ladra Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 As long as we look a lot more organised on the pitch, play better football and don't look as if we have struggled/fluked the points we have managed to get I wouldn't be calling it a failure to fall a little short of top 7. Yes. But like the man says. We're not talking about top 3. We're talking about top 7 here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Exactly. People are talking about finishing 7th as if it's finishing 3rd. On the other hand people are talking about finishing 7th as if there aren't any other good teams in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I can see your point and by no means do i want to stop the good vibes but thinking that way also means thinking that teams around us will also not try to improve. I can see us going up the table how competitive we are when it comes to places all comes down to the players we bring in, how fit the squad stays and how long our cup runs I suppose it is not just as simple as we get better so our table does. Look, a lot went wrong over the past couple of seasons. Can't be that bad again. Can't be. Surely. But even if everything goes wrong again, I mean EVERYTHING.... we are better off now. Allardyce is a better manager than Roeder/Souness. He will do better. I'm positive. And the competition we're talking about here (Not the top four)... Spurs, Villa, Everton, West Ham, Blackburn. They'd kill to have talent like Owen, Martins, Barton, Duff, Milner, Dyer, Emre, Taylor, and Given. We have a lot of talented players. It is time for those players to deliver. Im agreeing totally with SA on this one fans want us up there FFS we deserve to be up there I believe even in the good seasons we have been agonisingly close alot more close than some of our new found competitors. We will Im sure finish top 7 what Im fighting for is the acceptance that for whatever reason if we do not that we dont call for mass changes once more or moving the manager. With a better manager last season we were top 9/10 the "lesser" teams we performed so badly against home form was average and away form was as poor as usual. Just gettting rid of bramble will give us 7-10 points more a season and allowe fans to stop holding their breath so much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Still no-one's answered my question... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Still no-one's answered my question... my answer above pointed out we should have been top 9/10 if everything was the same at the club (including injuries) except the manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Still no-one's answered my question... The would we have finished where we did with Allardyce in charge question? If so, no I reckon we would have done better. Doesn't change the fact that this will be his first season here, we are in a complete mess and there are teams in the league who are probably a lot better prepared to take at least the top 6 places. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Still no-one's answered my question... The would we have finished where we did with Allardyce in charge question? If so, no I reckon we would have done better. Doesn't change the fact that this will be his first season here, we are in a complete mess and there are teams in the league who are probably a lot better prepared to take at least the top 6 places. I mean even the smoggies are aiming top six while the top 4 seem unbreakable everyone aims to the next best thing, top 6 uefa or intertoto. Looking at last seasons results we saw villa, blackburn, spuds, everton, bolton all being our main competition for places I can see that being exactly the same next season seen as they all have money to spend and will all want to improve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I don't understand that though Gejon. Allardyce is a top quality manager, we have some very good players which Allardyce should be adding too. 7th should be the bare minimum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 If he doesn't finish 7th, he's failed. Long-term plan or no long-term plan. That is bull shit, failed at what? And if we don't finish 7th what should happen to Sam in your opinion? Sacked? Or one life left? I despair... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Simply finishing top 10 isn't acceptable...otherwise why we were on Roeder's back for finishing where we did? Even on a small budget, he should be able to strengthen the areas we were seriously lacking in last season. If he hasn't at the very least got us back on level par with Spurs & Everton this time next year, then that's not good enough. What?.. do you really think that the only problem with Roeder was that we finished low in the league with him as manager?.. The bloke was a f****** disaster in just about everything he did. Even when we finished in a European place the season before I was still on his back, because I could see that despite his lucky finish the bloke didn't have a clue. If Allardyce finishes 10th but IMO he's doing the right things to improve the club then I'll be happy. But yes I would be pretty confident of him finishing a lot higher. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I don't understand that though Gejon. Allardyce is a top quality manager, we have some very good players which Allardyce should be adding too. 7th should be the bare minimum. Because we arent the only team in the league with a good manager, the other teams also have more settled squads. Honestly I think we probably will make a big improvement and will finish top 7 but it wont be the bare minimum because we won't definitely be the 7th best team in the league next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Allardyce is a top quality manager, we have some very good players which Allardyce should be adding too. 7th should be the bare minimum. So was Sir Bobby, who finished 11th in his first season, and with a better squad than the one Allardyce inherited, certainly a team with a better core of key players. There should be no targets of the kind. Just because we have a good manager and a new super rich owner doesn't mean the problems will just go away in the blink of an eye, certainly not in a 9 month timeframe anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 If he doesn't finish 7th, he's failed. Long-term plan or no long-term plan. That is bull s***, failed at what? And if we don't finish 7th what should happen to Sam in your opinion? Sacked? Or one life left? I despair... No he shouldn't be sacked. But his aim next season should be to finish on top of the mini-league of us, Villa, Pompey, Bolton, Blackburn, etc. If he doesn't do that, he hasn't succeeded. Benitez failed last season because he didn't finish top 2, Mourinho failed last season because he didn't win the title. Doesn't mean they should be sacked or they did poorly does it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I don't understand that though Gejon. Allardyce is a top quality manager, we have some very good players which Allardyce should be adding too. 7th should be the bare minimum. Because we arent the only team in the league with a good manager, the other teams also have more settled squads. Honestly I think we probably will make a big improvement and will finish top 7 but it wont be the bare minimum because we won't definitely be the 7th best team in the league next year. I don't have any pre-conceived answers to this, so it is not a 'loaded' question - but do you think that Ashley would be content with 7th/less than 7th, some 10 months after he has spent £133M to buy the club + Debt Repayment, plus money on players in two transfer windows? What do you think he would expect the following season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Allardyce is a top quality manager, we have some very good players which Allardyce should be adding too. 7th should be the bare minimum. So was Sir Bobby, who finished 11th in his first season, and with a better squad than the one Allardyce inherited, certainly a team with a better core of key players. There should be no targets of the kind. Just because we have a good manager and a new super rich owner doesn't mean the problems will just go away in the blink of an eye, certainly not in a 9 month timeframe anyway. we possibly were in more shits creek when sir bob took over than we are now but cause of all the take overs I feel that after the top 4 the league is far more competitive than it once was so in balance I feel your right. I think that there is nothing wrong with fans having a view to where we should finish but we also should realise we are not involved in all the factors how much funding we get how much other teams develop how many players we get in and will SA get his back room set up i could go on and on as there are so many things standing in our way on paper right now I say we are top 6, knowing the league and the fact the game isnt played on baby I would say a top 10 finish is good enough for me to give SA a second season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I don't understand that though Gejon. Allardyce is a top quality manager, we have some very good players which Allardyce should be adding too. 7th should be the bare minimum. Because we arent the only team in the league with a good manager, the other teams also have more settled squads. Honestly I think we probably will make a big improvement and will finish top 7 but it wont be the bare minimum because we won't definitely be the 7th best team in the league next year. I don't have any pre-conceived answers to this, so it is not a 'loaded' question - but do you think that Ashley would be content with 7th/less than 7th, some 10 months after he has spent £133M to buy the club + Debt Repayment, plus money on players in two transfer windows? What do you think he would expect the following season? I am sure Allardyce will tell jim straight and I hope he actually looks at the bigger picture. Do you think Lerner is going to sack M'ON for finishing 11th? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I don't understand that though Gejon. Allardyce is a top quality manager, we have some very good players which Allardyce should be adding too. 7th should be the bare minimum. Because we arent the only team in the league with a good manager, the other teams also have more settled squads. Honestly I think we probably will make a big improvement and will finish top 7 but it wont be the bare minimum because we won't definitely be the 7th best team in the league next year. I don't have any pre-conceived answers to this, so it is not a 'loaded' question - but do you think that Ashley would be content with 7th/less than 7th, some 10 months after he has spent £133M to buy the club + Debt Repayment, plus money on players in two transfer windows? What do you think he would expect the following season? I am sure Allardyce will tell jim straight and I hope he actually looks at the bigger picture. Do you think Lerner is going to sack M'ON for finishing 11th? I am an Allerdyce fan, and I am certain he will explain the practicalities. My concern is that (as for Raniere and Abramovich) Allerdyce is not "Ashley's man". It could be to our benefit, it may not be, but I feel there will be a combined pressure on here, to (a) build a sound structure, and (b) to start a big improvement - "ASAP". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Before anyone asks I don't know who "jim" is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Before anyone asks I don't know who "jim" is was just about to ask you who the fuck is jim an why have i not heard of him before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Some idiots in this thread. I'd be happy with finishing in the top 10 so long as we are improving, hell i'd be happy with having a season like Villa had last season so long as things were being done right on and off the park. Their fans seem to have their head screwed on and realise they're heading in the right direction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcjmc Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Some idiots in this thread. I'd be happy with finishing in the top 10 so long as we are improving, hell i'd be happy with having a season like Villa had last season so long as things were being done right on and off the park. Their fans seem to have their head screwed on and realise they're heading in the right direction. I think it is more down to heightened expectations sinse the new manager comes in, old chairman is almost a figure head and the dead wood is off, and thats why some people are already making demands. I dont think anyone is being daft wanting this, but reality will soon hit home IF we go on a bad run of injuries start mounting up or one or two new signings do shite. Thats why I feel top 10 is enough we need to see some movement on all fronts from training to coaches to everything else not just on the pitch results. I feel it may also be down to how we play as well as the result, SA will be judged on how they play as a team do they offer fight and a never say die attitude or follow roedent and never recover after leaking a goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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