macbeth Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 I think Mr Shepherd and his clan had their fingers in many pies (both literally and metaphorically) Wasn't there evidence of a deal being done with a warehouse that raised the Shepherds a couple of £mill? Wasn't every aspect of the Club separated into different sections (catering etc.) with Fred as a director of lots of imdividual companies? no doubt lifting a wage from each. I'm sure I saw a list of companies Shepherd is/was director of and most where connected to NUFC. I think the near £10m macbeth claims is only part of what he took out of the Club. The warehouse was sold between the Shepherds for £175,000 and leased back to the club for £150,000 per year. and the rest 2006 £341,000 2005 £335,000 2004 £271,000 2003 £316,000 2002 £265,000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crumpy Gunt Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 I think Mr Shepherd and his clan had their fingers in many pies (both literally and metaphorically) Wasn't there evidence of a deal being done with a warehouse that raised the Shepherds a couple of £mill? Wasn't every aspect of the Club separated into different sections (catering etc.) with Fred as a director of lots of imdividual companies? no doubt lifting a wage from each. I'm sure I saw a list of companies Shepherd is/was director of and most where connected to NUFC. I think the near £10m macbeth claims is only part of what he took out of the Club. as ever I only used the figures for pay and dividends straight from the club accounts. Any suggested dodgy dealings are difficult to believe. Wasn't having a go mate just merely stating that your figures might just be a part of what he took out. I've tried searching to see if I could find the companies he's director of with no luck, but I'm certain a year or two ago I saw such a list - consider he'll take a 'wage' from each. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbeth Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Urm, you can't by definition. Dividends are paid out profit.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend Check the accounts for 2000, loss and dividend payment. You can probably compensate losses with profits from previous years. Football is no different from any other business in this respect. Doesn't change the fact that any dividend needs to have been earned as profits before.. As I say, dividends are DEFINED AS paid out profits.. Can't seen how you can question this to incriminate Shepherd. It certainly doesn't make your argument more convincing.. 2000 accounts Operating profit before player trading £766,000 Player Trading £19,874,000 Operating Loss £19,108,000 Loss after interest and taxation £15,544,000 (so there was a tax credit in there) Dividends paid £3,836,000 Retained loss for year £19,380,000 And I've never understood how they did !! The only thing maybe that they split group and company results to somehow make it legal ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 You can probably compensate losses with profits from previous years. Football is no different from any other business in this respect. Doesn't change the fact that any dividend needs to have been earned as profits before.. As I say, dividends are DEFINED AS paid out profits.. Can't seen how you can question this to incriminate Shepherd. It certainly doesn't make your argument more convincing.. Did the club make a profit in 2000? The year they paid a dividend to shareholders. I couldn't care if they compensate losses with profits from another year, they made a loss that year yet still paid a dividend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbeth Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 I think Mr Shepherd and his clan had their fingers in many pies (both literally and metaphorically) Wasn't there evidence of a deal being done with a warehouse that raised the Shepherds a couple of £mill? Wasn't every aspect of the Club separated into different sections (catering etc.) with Fred as a director of lots of imdividual companies? no doubt lifting a wage from each. I'm sure I saw a list of companies Shepherd is/was director of and most where connected to NUFC. I think the near £10m macbeth claims is only part of what he took out of the Club. as ever I only used the figures for pay and dividends straight from the club accounts. Any suggested dodgy dealings are difficult to believe. Wasn't having a go mate just merely stating that your figures might just be a part of what he took out. I've tried searching to see if I could find the companies he's director of with no luck, but I'm certain a year or two ago I saw such a list - consider he'll take a 'wage' from each. It's okay, you have to read everything I say and picture me grinning. Only Shepherd's love child wound me up NUFC own various companies under the NUFC umbrella but I think they have to say what the total pay for any director is. So Douglas got his £450,000 per year for being a director of Newcastle United FC (International) Ltd, and this was reported inthe accounts. Not sure how our interntaional standing will survive without him in this role Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Urm, you can't by definition. Dividends are paid out profit.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dividend Check the accounts for 2000, loss and dividend payment. You can probably compensate losses with profits from previous years. Football is no different from any other business in this respect. Doesn't change the fact that any dividend needs to have been earned as profits before.. As I say, dividends are DEFINED AS paid out profits.. Can't seen how you can question this to incriminate Shepherd. It certainly doesn't make your argument more convincing.. 2000 accounts Operating profit before player trading £766,000 Player Trading £19,874,000 Operating Loss £19,108,000 Loss after interest and taxation £15,544,000 Dividends paid £3,836,000 Retained loss for year £19,380,000 And I've never understood how they did !! The only thing maybe that they split group and company results to somehow make it legal ?? Well, as a company owner in Holland I presume you have a similar system to us in the UK, where it is possible to offset one year's losses with the previous years profits paid out as dividends, for example: 2007 MyCo makes a 30k profit, I pay out 10k in divis, the remaining 2ok is retained in the company 2008 MyCo makes a 5k loss. I can still pay out the retained profit from 2007. Of course, a company can only ever pay out profits it has actually made (in the fiscal period running or previously retained). No expert on UK fiscal law, but I presume it must be something like this.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribble Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Little bit about what Lord Michael of Forde was up to on behalf of Bolton. http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2036021,00.html http://krconnect.blogspot.com/2007/03/mike-forde-bolton-wanderers-football.html Not sure of there being a technical director at Bolton though. Good links, thanks. :icon_thumright: I think they might have been overlooked in the joy of Shep's departure. We had a thread in the past about the club helping players settle (or not as the case was). Good to see a bit of professionalism creeping in - can just imagine the look on terry Mac's face at one of Forde's update meetings Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 You can probably compensate losses with profits from previous years. Football is no different from any other business in this respect. Doesn't change the fact that any dividend needs to have been earned as profits before.. As I say, dividends are DEFINED AS paid out profits.. Can't seen how you can question this to incriminate Shepherd. It certainly doesn't make your argument more convincing.. Did the club make a profit in 2000? The year they paid a dividend to shareholders. I couldn't care if they compensate losses with profits from another year, they made a loss that year yet still paid a dividend. What do you mean you don't care? They would still be profits, only from a different fiscal period. You also have to remember that dividends are paid out to ALL shareholders equally. Some people make it sound like dividends were being used as a bonus payout to management. Others make it worse by suggesting this was OUR money somehow.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Pigs are fat but apparently quite clever. So I don't want to insult any intelligent party by making comparisons between said mamals and Freddie Shepherd. Let's just hope this is an end to jobs for the boys and future employment decisions are based on merit above all else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 What do you mean you don't care? They would still be profits, only from a different fiscal period. You also have to remember that dividends are paid out to ALL shareholders equally. Some people make it sound like dividends were being used as a bonus payout to management. Others make it worse by suggesting this was OUR money somehow.. I'm aware that the dividends are paid to all, I don't think it was our money the minute we handed it over but can understand where people are coming from when they say that it was ours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbeth Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 What do you mean you don't care? They would still be profits, only from a different fiscal period. You also have to remember that dividends are paid out to ALL shareholders equally. Some people make it sound like dividends were being used as a bonus payout to management. Others make it worse by suggesting this was OUR money somehow.. The differnce is that as both majority shareholders and board members they were making the majority of the payments to themselves. A justification can be made for their salaries, even if someone feels £10,000 per week may have been excessive. The club issuing dividends while not making money is just wrong. http://www.nufc-finances.org.uk/profits2.htm has two graphs ... http://www.nufc-finances.org.uk/profit2.gif http://www.nufc-finances.org.uk/profit5.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Those numbers are upside-down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Mortified. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texasmag Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 The Times are saying that FF got 1 million pound payoff, which equals 2 years of his salary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Dayyvvee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 The Times are saying that FF got 1 million pound payoff, which equals 2 years of his salary. They're not saying that he got it, I think they are saying that he was entited to it, it may have been negotiated out of his contract when he sold his shares. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom_NUFC Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Great news. Turrah Freddy, I won't miss you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlufPurdi Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Cheerio Fred. That chapter has now closed, time to see what the next lot can do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Shepherd saw axe coming By STEVE BRENNER July 25, 2007 FREDDY SHEPHERD was on his way out of Toon last night — and he always knew it was coming. Mike Ashley put an end to Shepherd’s controversial 15 years at St James’ Park by installing Chris Mort as chairman in a brutal statement of his intent on Tyneside. Ever since his stunning £133million takeover in May, Ashley has always insisted that his own men will be brought in to finally put an end to years of under-achievement. And he was as good as his word. Although Shepherd had originally been kept on in an advisory role at the billionaire’s request, once the internal review was conducted there was only going to be one outcome. A clean break was needed and a source close to Shepherd said: “Freddy knew this was coming. He worked his socks off for the club but things have changed now. “There has been so much change going on in the last few weeks and Freddy has played no part in that whatsoever. “Freddy remains a massive fan of Newcastle and will carry on going to games and supporting the club he loves.” The nice little sum of £38m — £37m from selling his shares and a £1m pay-off — will certainly soften the blow. But 65-year-old Shepherd — currently struggling with pneumonia and a collapsed lung — will be left hurting at his inability to finally bring some silverware to the long- suffering Toon army despite chucking almost £200m at his dream of domestic glory. Kevin Keegan nearly landed the Premiership title back in 1997 before famously blowing it. There has, however, been more than one false dawn on Tyneside and those brilliant fans have had enough. With sportswear mogul Ashley operating on a totally different financial planet to Shepherd, there was only ever going to be one outcome. Shepherd’s son Kenneth, who helped negotiate transfers, was also told he no longer had a role at the club as Ashley ripped up the previous regime and started to do things his way. His arrival just after Sam Allardyce was installed as manager following the clueless reign of Glenn Roeder has given the Toon army new hope. The final days of Shepherd’s stay in the boardroom have been as controversial as the previous 15 years — 10 of them as chairman — with St James’ Park raided last week by the City of London Police as part of an investigation into alleged corruption. That certainly would not have impressed Ashley. It made him realise a fresh break was needed for everyone concerned. Shepherd joined forces with the Hall family in 1992 to drive out the previous Newcastle board. He became chairman in 1997 but resigned in the wake of the sensational Toongate expose. Shepherd and Douglas Hall were caught describing Geordie women as dogs, labelling Alan Shearer as Mary Poppins and mocking fans for paying £30 for replica shirts. They were on the sidelines for only 10 months before voting themselves back on the board — prompting the resignation of three directors. Newcastle reached two FA Cup finals and figured in Europe during his decade as chairman but Shepherd has frequently been a target for disillusioned fans. He backed his six managers with cash but critics point out that he paid himself up to £550,000 a year and earned more than £5m in dividends. Shepherd’s opponents have also blasted him for sacking Bobby Robson and appointing managers such as Kenny Dalglish and Graeme Souness. New chairman Mort is a partner in an international law firm, who have given him leave to take control of United and introduce a plan for the future. Mort said: “I am delighted to become chairman of such a fabulous club. Since arriving at St James’ Park I have been hugely encouraged by the warm welcome I have received from so many supporters. “The strategic review of the club is going well and, with the new season fast approaching, we feel the time is right to make this change.” http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002390000-2007340266,00.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 I was assured by a number of people the other day that Mort was only here for a sabbatical and wouldn't take over from Shepherd permanently. Didn't take long to prove them wrong. Can't say I'm overly excited by having a laywer (!) as our new chairman.. Can't say you're excited that someone who knows what he's doing has been appointed? He knows what he's doing in a law farm, not a football club. Surely you recognise there is a subtle difference? As far as the chairman is concerned, the club is a business, just like everywhere else. Sam Allardyce is in charge of the footballing side. Even if you think that, a lawyer is not by definition a good chairman of a company? Again, there is a subtle difference.. He's a man that a Billionaire has been working with all his life, got to say I trust his opinion over yours He is taking through his arse anyway. Every biotech company is headed up by Lawyers just as a simple example. To say a lawyer by defintion doesnt make a good chairman is nonsense. Company leaders can come from anywhere, finance, marketing, sales, HR or even legal. If nothing else ,at least Mort is more likely check out contracts properly and kick the escape clauses into touch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 I think there's a chance Freddy might actually die soon, sounds in bad health. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NSMagpie Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Good riddance, this should have happened in 1998., after the Toongate, but better late than never. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 If nothing else ,at least Mort is more likely check out contracts properly and kick the escape clauses into touch You can forget buying any top quality players then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenum Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Can I see Mort's CV? What are his achievements in business so far. There is a small chance he is even less competent than Shepherd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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