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feel like a broken record. i quite agree with baggio (i think it is) that when we "replaced" dyer we didnt bring in someone who shares the same strengths ie. not a like for like trade. we lost a player with burning pace, good passing and with a calm finisher... yes he gets paid double of what he deserves. yes he doesnt put the effort in. yes hes a generally unlikeable person.. but its obvious that him living leaves a void in our midfield. right now we must have the slowest grittiest midfield in the league, where are the "flashy skills" players, the ones who can change the game in an instant?

 

Saying Smith is a worse passer/finisher than Dyer is taking it some fucking stretch, man, surely the most avid Smith-basher couldn't take it that far.

 

Dyer's short-range passing was underrated, I'll grant you that, but from what I've seen of Smith over the years he looks a player with the ball at his feet.

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feel like a broken record. i quite agree with baggio (i think it is) that when we "replaced" dyer we didnt bring in someone who shares the same strengths ie. not a like for like trade. we lost a player with burning pace, good passing and with a calm finisher... yes he gets paid double of what he deserves. yes he doesnt put the effort in. yes hes a generally unlikeable person.. but its obvious that him living leaves a void in our midfield. right now we must have the slowest grittiest midfield in the league, where are the "flashy skills" players, the ones who can change the game in an instant?

 

Saying Smith is a worse passer/finisher than Dyer is taking it some f****** stretch, man, surely the most avid Smith-basher couldn't take it that far.

 

 

Dyer's short-range passing was underrated, I'll grant you that, but from what I've seen of Smith over the years he looks a player with the ball at his feet.

 

 

i think people have taken my comment the wrong way.. it wasnt meant to bash smith at all. i rate smith highly im saying that in terms of creativity dyer (on his day) has him beat. i guess it wasnt very well written because i didnt mean to imply that smith's passing was poor in any way.. simply highlighting dyers strengths and what we will miss. then again i doubt we'll see smith blaze past players like dyer used to. i personally just want to see a player of the same mould as dyer, but preferrably with more hunger.

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1) I said "excellent" for 3-5 games a season and invisible for a fair few as well, nothing about having 3-5 "good" games.

 

Sorry, I'll remember to use the correct word next time, I can see how it can move the goalposts so to speak.

 

 

2) I thought this might have shown you I had actually read your post: "If we're simply arguing about the quality of his replacement here, then fair enough." Leading me into discussing my thoughts on what you call an "inferior" replacement - did you miss them 3 paragraphs where I was trying to have a debate with you by addressing your concerns?

 

Are you in a huff?

 

3) I haven't seen you acknowledge that Dyer wanted to leave in any of your posts in this thread today... have you written it in white writing? Apologies if you're talking about a post from another day/in another thread, I don't read everything posted.

 

I've acknowladged that he wanted to go when I didn't argue the case when you said it, I said something along the lines of "I didn't say anything about whether he wanted to leave" or words to that affect, I didn't come out and say he wasn't to leave though.

 

4) However, I'm sure I do recall a post from you commenting on Bolton's fans' reactions to Faye's departure as well, odd from someone who doesn't pay attention to what opposition fans think of a player leaving.

 

I seem to remember it being a "Bolton fans arn't happy :lol:" with a link to their site as to take the piss out of their misery, I wasn't using it to say he was a good player.

 

 

You've now been broken down to admitting that both Smith and Dyer would be substitutes, but Dyer would be a better option from the bench. Bit of a come-down, if you ask me, and a lot nearer the truth of the matter at hand. Not a great difference between the players at all, except Dyer might be a better option from the bench because of his pace, which has been sort of my point all along.

 

Why are you arguing with me then?

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feel like a broken record. i quite agree with baggio (i think it is) that when we "replaced" dyer we didnt bring in someone who shares the same strengths ie. not a like for like trade. we lost a player with burning pace, good passing and with a calm finisher... yes he gets paid double of what he deserves. yes he doesnt put the effort in. yes hes a generally unlikeable person.. but its obvious that him living leaves a void in our midfield. right now we must have the slowest grittiest midfield in the league, where are the "flashy skills" players, the ones who can change the game in an instant?

 

Saying Smith is a worse passer/finisher than Dyer is taking it some f****** stretch, man, surely the most avid Smith-basher couldn't take it that far.

 

 

Dyer's short-range passing was underrated, I'll grant you that, but from what I've seen of Smith over the years he looks a player with the ball at his feet.

 

 

i think people have taken my comment the wrong way.. it wasnt meant to bash smith at all. i rate smith highly im saying that in terms of creativity dyer (on his day) has him beat. i guess it wasnt very well written because i didnt mean to imply that smith's passing was poor in any way.. simply highlighting dyers strengths and what we will miss. then again i doubt we'll see smith blaze past players like dyer used to. i personally just want to see a player of the same mould as dyer, but preferrably with more hunger.

 

Apologies from my end too, wasn't necessarily calling your fine self a "Smith basher", was just saying even those sorts would be stretching to claim he was a worse passer/finisher than Dyer. You're spot-on about losing his pace, which is a concern I can see myself as plain as day, but I'm hoping/thinking it won't be a major factor in this new Allardyce team.

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I must admit I liked Dyer when he was playing to the best of his ability but my problem was that he didn't do it often enough.  He's wasted a lot of potential and he'll probably look back at it in 10 years with regret.

 

Refusing to play on the right wing is beyond forgiveness, especially when a few days later he was more than happy to play left wing for England.

 

I would have been happy if he'd stayed but I'm just as happy, possibly more so that he's gone and we've got a very good price for him.

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Dyer may have felt calm when he was finishing, but he didn't score very often.

 

thats not necessarily true.. was our second top scorer last season and is more than decent in front of goal.

 

that said im content that he' gone and for 6-8 million it seems fair. we just need to use that money and also some of ashleys to invest wisely.... we need pace!

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feel like a broken record. i quite agree with baggio (i think it is) that when we "replaced" dyer we didnt bring in someone who shares the same strengths ie. not a like for like trade. we lost a player with burning pace, good passing and with a calm finisher... yes he gets paid double of what he deserves. yes he doesnt put the effort in. yes hes a generally unlikeable person.. but its obvious that him living leaves a void in our midfield. right now we must have the slowest grittiest midfield in the league, where are the "flashy skills" players, the ones who can change the game in an instant?

 

Saying Smith is a worse passer/finisher than Dyer is taking it some f****** stretch, man, surely the most avid Smith-basher couldn't take it that far.

 

 

Dyer's short-range passing was underrated, I'll grant you that, but from what I've seen of Smith over the years he looks a player with the ball at his feet.

 

 

i think people have taken my comment the wrong way.. it wasnt meant to bash smith at all. i rate smith highly im saying that in terms of creativity dyer (on his day) has him beat. i guess it wasnt very well written because i didnt mean to imply that smith's passing was poor in any way.. simply highlighting dyers strengths and what we will miss. then again i doubt we'll see smith blaze past players like dyer used to. i personally just want to see a player of the same mould as dyer, but preferrably with more hunger.

 

Apologies from my end too, wasn't necessarily calling your fine self a "Smith basher", was just saying even those sorts would be stretching to claim he was a worse passer/finisher than Dyer. You're spot-on about losing his pace, which is a concern I can see myself as plain as day, but I'm hoping/thinking it won't be a major factor in this new Allardyce team.

 

 

a bit of flattery never hurts  :razz:

and for the last part.. i hope so, it seems alladyce's tactic is to out-muscle teams, which will work well against the top teams since we can never outplay them. i think that guile and grit is not the answer: i've always thought 2 gritty centre mids and 2 pacey creative (basically brazilian) left/right mids was the perfect midfield set up.

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1) I said "excellent" for 3-5 games a season and invisible for a fair few as well, nothing about having 3-5 "good" games.

 

Sorry, I'll remember to use the correct word next time, I can see how it can move the goalposts so to speak.

 

Aye, I wasn't slagging him by saying he only plays well for a few games a year, I was saying he is exceptional/invaluable for that many games, but equally useless/invisible for the same/a larger amount otherwise. I do actually rate Dyer, the player.

 

2) I thought this might have shown you I had actually read your post: "If we're simply arguing about the quality of his replacement here, then fair enough." Leading me into discussing my thoughts on what you call an "inferior" replacement - did you miss them 3 paragraphs where I was trying to have a debate with you by addressing your concerns?

 

Are you in a huff?

 

I am, because you didn't read my three paragraphs, and it took a few minutes to write them! Then you had the cheek to say I don't read your posts. This question smacks of being beaten-down argument-wise though, as does your Smith post in the playmaker thread!

 

3) I haven't seen you acknowledge that Dyer wanted to leave in any of your posts in this thread today... have you written it in white writing? Apologies if you're talking about a post from another day/in another thread, I don't read everything posted.

 

I've acknowladged that he wanted to go when I didn't argue the case when you said it, I said something along the lines of "I didn't say anything about whether he wanted to leave" or words to that affect, I didn't come out and say he wasn't to leave though.

 

You didn't mention anything regarding him "wanting" to leave until my 3rd/4th prompt, you merely acknowledged he'd been sold. Pernickety, again, I know :lol:

 

4) However, I'm sure I do recall a post from you commenting on Bolton's fans' reactions to Faye's departure as well, odd from someone who doesn't pay attention to what opposition fans think of a player leaving.

 

I seem to remember it being a "Bolton fans arn't happy :lol:" with a link to their site as to take the piss out of their misery, I wasn't using it to say he was a good player.

 

Aye, but you've actively went looking for some Bolton fans' opinions on Faye, which is a bit of strange thing to do for someone who doesn't "care what fans of other clubs think of a player leaving", to paraphrase a bit, if you ask me.

 

 

You've now been broken down to admitting that both Smith and Dyer would be substitutes, but Dyer would be a better option from the bench. Bit of a come-down, if you ask me, and a lot nearer the truth of the matter at hand. Not a great difference between the players at all, except Dyer might be a better option from the bench because of his pace, which has been sort of my point all along.

 

Why are you arguing with me then?

 

That was me sort of doing a general summary asserting that I've won this gargantuan battle, after having dragged you over to having basically the same opinion as me on the two players. :parky:

 

Previous to that, I've been arguing with you to feed your craving for conflict since Vic's departure, seeing how I've had nowt better to do with my time either. It's been lovely.

 

I hope all that was old-school "NE5" enough for you, I understand you need your fix. :laugh:

 

Is this one over, now?

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Again, losing Dyer means we have lost a 'flashy skills player who can change games in an instant'?

 

Yet everyone agrees he would only make the bench?

 

Nonsense! 

 

 

I don't know how long you have watched Dyer for but the guy is a waste of space.

 

Is he quick? YES. Is he an England international? YES. On his day is he a threat to most teams? YES.

 

However, i have never once seen a consistant Kieron Dyer. He only ever performs when he feels like it, that isn't me basing it on opinion but from what i have seen.

 

When he came back from injury last season he was fanstastic for two games (Man City and Arsenal). He then did NOTHING until Roeder was sacked. When he realised we had a new manager watching, he scores against Watford, IMO because he made a consious decsion to put that little bit more effort in.

 

The guy is injury prone and not the greatest technically, for 6-8m pound i'm very very happy to get rid of him.

 

He will peform well for West Ham for half a season perhaps and then he will drift back into the wilderness.

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I don't know how long you have watched Dyer for but the guy is a waste of space.

 

Is he quick? YES. Is he an England international? YES. On his day is he a threat to most teams? YES.

 

However, i have never once seen a consistant Keiron Dyer. He only ever performs when he feels like it, that isn't me basing it on opinion but from what i have seen.

 

When he came back from injury last season he was fanstastic for two games (Man City and Arsenal). He then did NOTHING until Roeder was sacked. When he realised we had a new manager watching, he scores against Watford, IMO because he made a consious decsion to put that little bit more effort in.

 

The guy is injury prone and not the greatest technically, for 6-8m pound i'm very very happy to get rid of him.

 

Him will peform well for man city for half a season perhaps and then he will drift back into the wilderness.

bluelaugh.gif

Have West Ham got rid of him already? 

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1) I said "excellent" for 3-5 games a season and invisible for a fair few as well, nothing about having 3-5 "good" games.

 

Sorry, I'll remember to use the correct word next time, I can see how it can move the goalposts so to speak.

 

Aye, I wasn't slagging him by saying he only plays well for a few games a year, I was saying he is exceptional/invaluable for that many games, but equally useless/invisible for the same/a larger amount otherwise. I do actually rate Dyer, the player.

 

2) I thought this might have shown you I had actually read your post: "If we're simply arguing about the quality of his replacement here, then fair enough." Leading me into discussing my thoughts on what you call an "inferior" replacement - did you miss them 3 paragraphs where I was trying to have a debate with you by addressing your concerns?

 

Are you in a huff?

 

I am, because you didn't read my three paragraphs, and it took a few minutes to write them! Then you had the cheek to say I don't read your posts. This question smacks of being beaten-down argument-wise though, as does your Smith post in the playmaker thread!

 

3) I haven't seen you acknowledge that Dyer wanted to leave in any of your posts in this thread today... have you written it in white writing? Apologies if you're talking about a post from another day/in another thread, I don't read everything posted.

 

I've acknowladged that he wanted to go when I didn't argue the case when you said it, I said something along the lines of "I didn't say anything about whether he wanted to leave" or words to that affect, I didn't come out and say he wasn't to leave though.

 

You didn't mention anything regarding him "wanting" to leave until my 3rd/4th prompt, you merely acknowledged he'd been sold. Pernickety, again, I know :lol:

 

4) However, I'm sure I do recall a post from you commenting on Bolton's fans' reactions to Faye's departure as well, odd from someone who doesn't pay attention to what opposition fans think of a player leaving.

 

I seem to remember it being a "Bolton fans arn't happy :lol:" with a link to their site as to take the piss out of their misery, I wasn't using it to say he was a good player.

 

Aye, but you've actively went looking for some Bolton fans' opinions on Faye, which is a bit of strange thing to do for someone who doesn't "care what fans of other clubs think of a player leaving", to paraphrase a bit, if you ask me.

 

 

You've now been broken down to admitting that both Smith and Dyer would be substitutes, but Dyer would be a better option from the bench. Bit of a come-down, if you ask me, and a lot nearer the truth of the matter at hand. Not a great difference between the players at all, except Dyer might be a better option from the bench because of his pace, which has been sort of my point all along.

 

Why are you arguing with me then?

 

That was me sort of doing a general summary asserting that I've won this gargantuan battle, after having dragged you over to having basically the same opinion as me on the two players. :parky:

 

Previous to that, I've been arguing with you to feed your craving for conflict since Vic's departure, seeing how I've had nowt better to do with my time either. It's been lovely.

 

I hope all that was old-school "NE5" enough for you, I understand you need your fix. :laugh:

 

Is this one over, now?

 

Nearly.

 

Aye, but you've actively went looking for some Bolton fans' opinions on Faye, which is a bit of strange thing to do for someone who doesn't "care what fans of other clubs think of a player leaving", to paraphrase a bit, if you ask me.

 

I didn't look because I want their opinion of the player, it was more a case of finding out if they know anything more about the deal than we would, similar to how a West Ham fan would come on here to get articles from the Chronicle etc to find out what we know about the deal.

 

Them getting in a flap was just the icing on the cake after we beat them, that and all the shite they've come out with since Allardyce came here.

 

 

That is all. O0

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I don't know how long you have watched Dyer for but the guy is a waste of space.

 

Is he quick? YES. Is he an England international? YES. On his day is he a threat to most teams? YES.

 

However, i have never once seen a consistant Keiron Dyer. He only ever performs when he feels like it, that isn't me basing it on opinion but from what i have seen.

 

When he came back from injury last season he was fanstastic for two games (Man City and Arsenal). He then did NOTHING until Roeder was sacked. When he realised we had a new manager watching, he scores against Watford, IMO because he made a consious decsion to put that little bit more effort in.

 

The guy is injury prone and not the greatest technically, for 6-8m pound i'm very very happy to get rid of him.

 

Him will peform well for man city for half a season perhaps and then he will drift back into the wilderness.

bluelaugh.gif

Have West Ham got rid of him already? 

 

ITK i tell thee. We pulled out again at the last minute!

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Again, losing Dyer means we have lost a 'flashy skills player who can change games in an instant'?

 

Yet everyone agrees he would only make the bench?

 

Nonsense! 

 

 

I don't know how long you have watched Dyer for but the guy is a waste of space.

 

Is he quick? YES. Is he an England international? YES. On his day is he a threat to most teams? YES.

 

However, i have never once seen a consistant Kieron Dyer. He only ever performs when he feels like it, that isn't me basing it on opinion but from what i have seen.

 

When he came back from injury last season he was fanstastic for two games (Man City and Arsenal). He then did NOTHING until Roeder was sacked. When he realised we had a new manager watching, he scores against Watford, IMO because he made a consious decsion to put that little bit more effort in.  -when nobody else did in that match

The guy is injury prone and not the greatest technically, for 6-8m pound i'm very very happy to get rid of him.

 

Him will peform well for man city for half a season perhaps and then he will drift back into the wilderness.

 

chezgiven was saying dyer was crap. so why you quoted him is beyond me. yeah, and he went to west ham..

aaah so when we had a new manager watching he put in the effort.. good thing we don't have one of those like.

 

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i actually think Dyer looked at his best in the rare times he played under Souness and Roeder. He became a lot more composed in front of goal for instance, even if he can only "place" the ball rather than blast it. If he stays fit i think Wham have a very good player on their hands and one who we know works well with Bellamy.

 

Personally i think he's a better player than Smith, Dyer scored 7 goals last season playing as a link-man in a hopeless side, Smith has 2 in 51 despite playing up-front in half those games for the best side in the country. and, like a lot of pacy players, i don't think you can even accurately measure Dyer's strengths in statistics. i appreciate Smith brings qualities that you'd never associate with Dyer - aggression, work-rate, selflessness, solidity and so on. though you can pick up players with those strengths cheaply rather than for £6m (Faye from Bolton for instance). As a midfielder Smith reminds me of Parker, albeit with a better first touch and less caution, but essentially a huff and puff worker who produces little. As a forward i'd say he's a bit better but doesn't exactly offer much variety. not saying i don't want him in the squad, he is good cover and decent enough in a number of key positions, but i wouldn't want Smith to be here at the expense of a genuine replacement for Dyer/Nobby.

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Again, losing Dyer means we have lost a 'flashy skills player who can change games in an instant'?

 

Yet everyone agrees he would only make the bench?

 

Nonsense! 

 

 

I don't know how long you have watched Dyer for but the guy is a waste of space.

 

Is he quick? YES. Is he an England international? YES. On his day is he a threat to most teams? YES.

 

However, i have never once seen a consistant Kieron Dyer. He only ever performs when he feels like it, that isn't me basing it on opinion but from what i have seen.

 

When he came back from injury last season he was fanstastic for two games (Man City and Arsenal). He then did NOTHING until Roeder was sacked. When he realised we had a new manager watching, he scores against Watford, IMO because he made a consious decsion to put that little bit more effort in.  -when nobody else did in that match

The guy is injury prone and not the greatest technically, for 6-8m pound i'm very very happy to get rid of him.

 

Him will peform well for man city for half a season perhaps and then he will drift back into the wilderness.

 

chezgiven was saying dyer was crap. so why you quoted him is beyond me. yeah, and he went to west ham..

aaah so when we had a new manager watching he put in the effort.. good thing we don't have one of those like.

 

 

No i wasnt saying he was crap, i was saying that he wasnt a 'flashy skills player who can change a game in an instant'. I was also pointing out that if there was a general consensus that with all players fit he was not likely to start, the loss cant be that great.

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Again, losing Dyer means we have lost a 'flashy skills player who can change games in an instant'?

 

Yet everyone agrees he would only make the bench?

 

Nonsense! 

 

 

I don't know how long you have watched Dyer for but the guy is a waste of space.

 

Is he quick? YES. Is he an England international? YES. On his day is he a threat to most teams? YES.

 

However, i have never once seen a consistant Kieron Dyer. He only ever performs when he feels like it, that isn't me basing it on opinion but from what i have seen.

 

When he came back from injury last season he was fanstastic for two games (Man City and Arsenal). He then did NOTHING until Roeder was sacked. When he realised we had a new manager watching, he scores against Watford, IMO because he made a consious decsion to put that little bit more effort in.  -when nobody else did in that match

The guy is injury prone and not the greatest technically, for 6-8m pound i'm very very happy to get rid of him.

 

Him will peform well for man city for half a season perhaps and then he will drift back into the wilderness.

 

chezgiven was saying dyer was crap. so why you quoted him is beyond me. yeah, and he went to west ham..

aaah so when we had a new manager watching he put in the effort.. good thing we don't have one of those like.

 

 

No i wasnt saying he was crap, i was saying that he wasnt a 'flashy skills player who can change a game in an instant'. I was also pointing out that if there was a general consensus that with all players fit he was not likely to start, the loss cant be that great.

 

on those rare days when he gave a crap he was one of those players. and no, i think he'd start pretty regularly, probably in place of milner or even slot behinb attackers in a 442 formation.

oh and i what i said about you saying he was crap- took it upon myself to read between the lines, if that not what you meant than sorry; but still it was pretty stupid of rodham to quote what you said and then argue it, because you were saying the same thing.

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Again, losing Dyer means we have lost a 'flashy skills player who can change games in an instant'?

 

Yet everyone agrees he would only make the bench?

 

Nonsense! 

 

 

I don't know how long you have watched Dyer for but the guy is a waste of space.

 

Is he quick? YES. Is he an England international? YES. On his day is he a threat to most teams? YES.

 

However, i have never once seen a consistant Kieron Dyer. He only ever performs when he feels like it, that isn't me basing it on opinion but from what i have seen.

 

When he came back from injury last season he was fanstastic for two games (Man City and Arsenal). He then did NOTHING until Roeder was sacked. When he realised we had a new manager watching, he scores against Watford, IMO because he made a consious decsion to put that little bit more effort in.  -when nobody else did in that match

The guy is injury prone and not the greatest technically, for 6-8m pound i'm very very happy to get rid of him.

 

Him will peform well for man city for half a season perhaps and then he will drift back into the wilderness.

 

chezgiven was saying dyer was crap. so why you quoted him is beyond me. yeah, and he went to west ham..

aaah so when we had a new manager watching he put in the effort.. good thing we don't have one of those like.

 

 

No i wasnt saying he was crap, i was saying that he wasnt a 'flashy skills player who can change a game in an instant'. I was also pointing out that if there was a general consensus that with all players fit he was not likely to start, the loss cant be that great.

 

on those rare days when he gave a crap he was one of those players. and no, i think he'd start pretty regularly, probably in place of milner or even slot behinb attackers in a 442 formation.

oh and i what i said about you saying he was crap- took it upon myself to read between the lines, if that not what you meant than sorry; but still it was pretty stupid of rodham to quote what you said and then argue it, because you were saying the same thing.

 

His first line suggests he wanted a pop at me tbh :hmm:

 

I'm 30 fucking 4 next week  8)

 

Be very interesting to see where Curbs plays him, he is in the squad for the B'ham game tomorrow.

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i actually think Dyer looked at his best in the rare times he played under Souness and Roeder. He became a lot more composed in front of goal for instance, even if he can only "place" the ball rather than blast it. If he stays fit i think Wham have a very good player on their hands and one who we know works well with Bellamy.

 

Personally i think he's a better player than Smith, Dyer scored 7 goals last season playing as a link-man in a hopeless side, Smith has 2 in 51 despite playing up-front in half those games for the best side in the country. and, like a lot of pacy players, i don't think you can even accurately measure Dyer's strengths in statistics. i appreciate Smith brings qualities that you'd never associate with Dyer - aggression, work-rate, selflessness, solidity and so on. though you can pick up players with those strengths cheaply rather than for £6m (Faye from Bolton for instance). As a midfielder Smith reminds me of Parker, albeit with a better first touch and less caution, but essentially a huff and puff worker who produces little. As a forward i'd say he's a bit better but doesn't exactly offer much variety. not saying i don't want him in the squad, he is good cover and decent enough in a number of key positions, but i wouldn't want Smith to be here at the expense of a genuine replacement for Dyer/Nobby.

 

you say players like smith can be picked up cheaply but then go on to compare him favourably to Parker who went for £7m??

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His first line suggests he wanted a pop at me tbh :hmm:

 

I'm 30 f****** 4 next week  8)

 

Be very interesting to see where Curbs plays him, he is in the squad for the B'ham game tomorrow.

 

 

well i'll forget so happy birthday now  :wav:

 

i want to see the match to watch how he plays.. hope he doesn't go on to become the player we always wanted him to be. abit selfish, but come on who doesn't hate west ham.

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