Colocho Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think the Carroll sale was the beginning. The reason why we've not been a "selling club" for the last few years, is because we've had no-one good to sell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Antec Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think the Carroll sale was the beginning. The reason why we've not been a "selling club" for the last few years, is because we've had no-one good to sell. Apart from Given, N'Zogbia and Milner of course who we did well to hang on to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginola Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 You can't really say we're a selling club based on the Carroll sale. To take £35mil for a player who has had a good 6months in the PL doesn't make us a selling club, a lot of clubs in a similar situation would've done the same imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 There were other reason behind their sales, Carroll (as was Milner, arguably) was comfortable here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginola Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 They both handed in transfer requests Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theregulars Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think we came off badly in it. Agree. Quite simply we sold one of our best players and didn't get anyone, leaving us with an extremely average strike force. To the extent that our squad is significantly worse for the move we come off badly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Is anyone taking the financial benefit to the club into account, or are we purely going to judge this deal on the players we buy with the money? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginola Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Is anyone taking the financial benefit to the club into account, or are we purely going to judge this deal on the players we buy with the money? It certainly should be, given some of the trouble some clubs have gotten themselves into due to financial problems. Obviously it's easier to just look at the players and the performances on the field rather than considering the financial implications, but the balance has to be right. Good team on the pitch, good finances off it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I hurt - badly - over the Carroll sale, but when the dust settles and you get your head around the figure and the terms (sell on etc) you begin to think - hmmmm.. that was pretty good business and I can't imagine any club knocking it back. Sure his departure weakened our squad, but he had been injured, was injured and still is injured, and frankly (and perhaps surprisingly) we've fared pretty well without him over the last 2 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk77 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think we came off badly in it. Agree. Quite simply we sold one of our best players and didn't get anyone, leaving us with an extremely average strike force. To the extent that our squad is significantly worse for the move we come off badly. I think it's very hard to make a plan for potential outcomes of a transfer deadline day. First of all: They didn't search for replacement, because they were not interested in selling Carroll. Second, neither MA or we could have predicted the amount of money we got for him. When they got this offer it changed all original plans. Due to our economical situation, it was unwise to say no. Third, just because we got no replacement, doesn't mean that the club didn't try! Carroll's sale proved how off the mark the january prices are. The big difference between now and before, is that the club is not willing to pay gold, only to receive s*** in return. MA and Pardew took a gamble, that could turn out to be hugely positive for this club. Also they probably thought that we have plenty of cm,am back soon, meaning we could switch to a 4-5-1 formation. And lastly, we still had to mange without Carroll regardless. He's probably weeks away from playing. Come summer, the prices will cool, meaning that we will get more for less, in contrary to the winter window. Then our money will come in real handy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I didn't say you need local players as a hard and fast rule, my point was about creating a club identity, a mentality, which is what you need to build something that will last in football. You miss my point entirely talking about the influence of Guti on Madrid, it's his off field influence that was as important as anything, just like at Man United. Carroll is more comparable to Raul, a brilliant talismanic striker who should have been the symbol of this club for ten years, like Shearer before him, with everything built around him. Every football empire ever built has been on great local players produced by the clubs themselves, from Ferguson to the Liverpool boot room. Wenger might not stay local but it's the same principle - building from the bottom up instead of top down. Any fucker can splash a load of money on good players and have a bit of success but to keep it going across the years is something completely different. Ashley claims it's all about the academy but selling Carroll proves otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Ran out of characters... Not saying we're going to create a footballing empire but the only way we'll make it back where I think we should be, at least challenging for the Champions League, is building, bit by bit, and Carroll should have been built around, like successful clubs do, no matter how much is offered. Selling off players that we have bought a year earlier is bad enough but selling off ones that the club has spent years producing and that a whole city had their pride and their hope pinned on is absolutely disgusting and unforgivable as far as I'm concerned. Some people aren't bothered about local players playing for us but having grown up with Alan Shearer up front, I'll never be one of them. The club is named after our city for a reason and this regime is more than happy to put a price on our pride. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I didn't say you need local players as a hard and fast rule, my point was about creating a club identity, a mentality, which is what you need to build something that will last in football. You miss my point entirely talking about the influence of Guti on Madrid, it's his off field influence that was as important as anything, just like at Man United. Carroll is more comparable to Raul, a brilliant talismanic striker who should have been the symbol of this club for ten years, like Shearer before him, with everything built around him. Every football empire ever built has been on great local players produced by the clubs themselves, from Ferguson to the Liverpool boot room. Wenger might not stay local but it's the same principle - building from the bottom up instead of top down. Any f***er can splash a load of money on good players and have a bit of success but to keep it going across the years is something completely different. Ashley claims it's all about the academy but selling Carroll proves otherwise. I agree in principle with what your saying about local talismen in the club, and mistakenly believed we had one. Carroll betrayed that belief and despite his public utterances, a new 5 year contract and the promise of an immediate review at the end of the season he proved that London lads like Rob Lee and Warren Barton, and scouse lads like Nolan and Joey Barton have more allegiance to the club than the the greedy Gateshead charva did at the end of the day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginola Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Surely the whole situation is different when he hands in a transfer request though? You shouldn't have the figurehead of your team, the Raul/Shearer type, wanting to leave the club, should you? Obviously I don't know the whole ins and outs and everything that went on behind the scenes to do with the transfer, but for us to reject a bid, have a transfer request handed in, and then accept it, I know what it looks like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Surely the whole situation is different when he hands in a transfer request though? You shouldn't have the figurehead of your team, the Raul/Shearer type, wanting to leave the club, should you? Obviously I don't know the whole ins and outs and everything that went on behind the scenes to do with the transfer, but for us to reject a bid, have a transfer request handed in, and then accept it, I know what it looks like. He was FORCED to hand that transfer request in. [/obviously] He loved and still loves the club. He's have played for peanuts if Ashley had only given him a hugh and told him how much he loved him. Carroll was only ever interested in the future of NUFC, until we forced him out into the cold Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest axel Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Surely the whole situation is different when he hands in a transfer request though? You shouldn't have the figurehead of your team, the Raul/Shearer type, wanting to leave the club, should you? Obviously I don't know the whole ins and outs and everything that went on behind the scenes to do with the transfer, but for us to reject a bid, have a transfer request handed in, and then accept it, I know what it looks like. He was FORCED to hand that transfer request in. [/obviously] He loved and still loves the club. He's have played for peanuts if Ashley had only given him a hugh and told him how much he loved him. Carroll was only ever interested in the future of NUFC, until he found out he got 80k pw at Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginola Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Surely the whole situation is different when he hands in a transfer request though? You shouldn't have the figurehead of your team, the Raul/Shearer type, wanting to leave the club, should you? Obviously I don't know the whole ins and outs and everything that went on behind the scenes to do with the transfer, but for us to reject a bid, have a transfer request handed in, and then accept it, I know what it looks like. He was FORCED to hand that transfer request in. [/obviously] He loved and still loves the club. He's have played for peanuts if Ashley had only given him a hugh and told him how much he loved him. Carroll was only ever interested in the future of NUFC, until we forced him out into the cold Forced by the club or his agent? I really doubt that the club forced him to hand in a transfer request. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I'm with wullie on this, as far as I'm concerned, there was no price-tag on how gutted I was when a local, academy number 9 was sold. I hate using this phrase, but it really is selling out to think otherwise imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 As far as that part of the transfer goes, it depends whether you believe that what you see played out like a soap opera on SSN is gospel and that there is nothing else more complicated to the situation. I don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 At the end of the day, if the club wanted to keep hold of him, they would have. The only consolation we can have as fans in that we had £30m paid up front, and a 20% sell-on clause as part of the deal. As Dave has often pointed out though, how does that affect us on a Saturday afternoon, when we go to watch our side play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Surely the whole situation is different when he hands in a transfer request though? You shouldn't have the figurehead of your team, the Raul/Shearer type, wanting to leave the club, should you? Obviously I don't know the whole ins and outs and everything that went on behind the scenes to do with the transfer, but for us to reject a bid, have a transfer request handed in, and then accept it, I know what it looks like. He was FORCED to hand that transfer request in. [/obviously] He loved and still loves the club. He's have played for peanuts if Ashley had only given him a hugh and told him how much he loved him. Carroll was only ever interested in the future of NUFC, until we forced him out into the cold Fucking hell. Peanuts? £30k+ a week is NOT peanuts and he felt that wasnt enough! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 At the end of the day, the point you're making about identity and creating a culture at this club doesn't really work if the player you're talking about jumps ship at the first opportunity he gets. And don't bother with all that 'he was forced out' nonsense. He could've quite easily dug his heels in and stayed. But he didn't. So good riddance. As for whether the money will or wont be reinvested, that's another question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 At the end of the day, if the club wanted to keep hold of him, they would have. The only consolation we can have as fans in that we had £30m paid up front, and a 20% sell-on clause as part of the deal. As Dave has often pointed out though, how does that affect us on a Saturday afternoon, when we go to watch our side play. If you've been watching us, then quite surprisingly, you'll have noticed that the absence of Carroll and £30M in the bank hasn't affected us much at all. However the real answer to that question is more likely to be answered on a Saturday afternoon in August rather than February. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginola Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 At the end of the day, the point you're making about identity and creating a culture at this club doesn't really work if the player you're talking about jumps ship at the first opportunity he gets. And don't bother with all that 'he was forced out' nonsense. He could've quite easily dug his heels in and stayed. But he didn't. So good riddance. As for whether the money will or wont be reinvested, that's another question. My sentiments exactly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Surely the whole situation is different when he hands in a transfer request though? You shouldn't have the figurehead of your team, the Raul/Shearer type, wanting to leave the club, should you? Obviously I don't know the whole ins and outs and everything that went on behind the scenes to do with the transfer, but for us to reject a bid, have a transfer request handed in, and then accept it, I know what it looks like. He was FORCED to hand that transfer request in. [/obviously] He loved and still loves the club. He's have played for peanuts if Ashley had only given him a hugh and told him how much he loved him. Carroll was only ever interested in the future of NUFC, until we forced him out into the cold Fucking hell. Peanuts? £30k+ a week is NOT peanuts and he felt that wasnt enough! I'm afraid for a top striker who has market value of 35m that is peanuts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now