Message to the Doom and Gloom Merchants

[WhatTheFunk]

if I was relocating to Amsterdam then I can think of a number of forms of entertainment that would be higher up my list than football !

 

Personally I think a section of the fan base still believe its 95/96 and have the same level of expecation that we had back then.

 

My doom and gloom had been in place since Robson wasn't moved into a Director of Football type role in Summer 04. But that was because we had a board who were inept and a succession of managers who didnt know their arse from their elbow.

 

For the first time in years I now have faith in the people making decisions on behalf of the club and I'll give them my backing, even if we do play out a scoreless home bore draw with teams like Villa.

 

rome wasn't built in a day....

 

That's the way forward!

 

Fine...you can stay

[Minhosa]

New 'Billionaire' Owner.................

New Manager who speaks sense and knows his job............

An improved squad with a net spend of less than £10m.......

A Chairman who is keen to engage fans, not so keen to make stupid statements/claims for the press........

A more organised side where players know their role............

 

Some people still having a whinge...........fucking priceless.

 

Get a grip lads.

 

It's 4 points of of 6. We look nice and tidy at the back WITH a new left back due a start and with a RB likely to be brought in within the next 6 months and we've got a bunch of forwards who still need to learn each others games.

 

I'm still mega-optimistic.

 

C'mon the lads.

 

PS: I'd rather watch a Sam Allardyce team than a Martin O'Neill one ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

[Guest samjack]

New 'Billionaire' Owner.................

New Manager who speaks sense and knows his job............

An improved squad with a net spend of less than £10m.......

A Chairman who is keen to engage fans, not so keen to make stupid statements/claims for the press........

A more organised side where players know their role............

 

Some people still having a whinge...........f****** priceless.

 

Get a grip lads.

 

It's 4 points of of 6. We look nice and tidy at the back WITH a new left back due a start and with a RB likely to be brought in within the next 6 months and we've got a bunch of forwards who still need to learn each others games.

 

I'm still mega-optimistic.

 

C'mon the lads.

 

PS: I'd rather watch a Sam Allardyce team than a Martin O'Neill one ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

 

Totally agree with this...we have lost our leaky defense that the ignorant southern press used to love to ridicule at every opportunity.

We have got a group of midfielders (when all fit) that as we already know are solid & workmanlike as well as being able to create & link up with the forwards.

Not to mention a fantastic selection of big man little man strikers who all have qualities in their own right!!!

2 Top quality keepers, i have no doubt our squad/team will be strengthened again before the end of next week aswell !!

 

All in all i reckon with BS & MA at the helm we are'nt going to go too far wrong this seaon & then push on again next season to hopefully take us to the next level.

 

So come on guys give the new regime a chance  :clap:

[Unbelievable]

Love all the "Holier than thou" attitudes here, "I'm a super fan me cos I didn't have a pop at the side after a poor performance, anyone who does is an idiot"

 

Well I freely admit to being one of those "idiots" because that performance was truely shocking, and but for the inemptitude of the Villa Strikers would have sent us away with a defeat, a defeat we would have thoroughly deserved.

 

More worrying than the result was the performance, I can live with a 0-0 against Villa, even though Villa are nothing more than mid table dross themselves. But the performances lacked everything, don't be conned into thinking we kept them out because we gifted them a few good chances, they just weren't good enough to take them, we created very little and showed no desire to step things up and win the game.

 

I still believe in Sam and what he is trying to achieve but things need to improve drastically if they are to achieve what Mike Ashley will be expecting this season, which is Europe whether Mort says it or not. There is still plenty of time of course, and it's still very much early days but don't be surprised if the new owners get impatient if no signs of improvement are made, remember Sam's not their man.

 

Do you think booing the players after a draw will help Sam and what he's trying to achieve then?  It's not a question of being holier than thou, but your reaction to one game is certainly thicker than thick.

 

What an utter disappointing reaction to a point well made. Also, nothing too wrong with that Neil Farrington article. Why can't people just call it like it is and say we were lucky to get a draw and we will need to do better..?

[Guest firetotheworks]

Love all the "Holier than thou" attitudes here, "I'm a super fan me cos I didn't have a pop at the side after a poor performance, anyone who does is an idiot"

 

Well I freely admit to being one of those "idiots" because that performance was truely shocking, and but for the inemptitude of the Villa Strikers would have sent us away with a defeat, a defeat we would have thoroughly deserved.

 

More worrying than the result was the performance, I can live with a 0-0 against Villa, even though Villa are nothing more than mid table dross themselves. But the performances lacked everything, don't be conned into thinking we kept them out because we gifted them a few good chances, they just weren't good enough to take them, we created very little and showed no desire to step things up and win the game.

 

I still believe in Sam and what he is trying to achieve but things need to improve drastically if they are to achieve what Mike Ashley will be expecting this season, which is Europe whether Mort says it or not. There is still plenty of time of course, and it's still very much early days but don't be surprised if the new owners get impatient if no signs of improvement are made, remember Sam's not their man.

 

Do you think booing the players after a draw will help Sam and what he's trying to achieve then?  It's not a question of being holier than thou, but your reaction to one game is certainly thicker than thick.

 

What an utter disappointing reaction to a point well made. Also, nothing too wrong with that Neil Farrington article. Why can't people just call it like it is and say we were lucky to get a draw and we will need to do better..?

 

I think lucky is too much praise for Villa, MON is always going to say they were hard done by, he's that type of manager. I thought a draw was fair myself, but perspective is needed. I heard someone saying 'How could we have played so well with the same players last week?'....thats because we were playing Bolton and not Aston Villa. Daft question really. The booing was an absolute fucking joke. I understand it to an extent when the fans boo through lack of effort, but that was never in question yesterday. I fear that this level of reduculously high expectation with fans and the bandwagon jumping of the local media is not only counter productive but it has been and will continue to be our downfall if some people dont learn stop being so fickle. Ive said it once and I'll say it again, best away fans in the country, worst home fans.

[Guest robertbobo]

I think we did excellent because it was easily a game we could have lost. I never expected our strikers to get much service today due to our midfield but we did have our chances.

 

In Sam's eyes our central striker got excellent service throughout the time he was on the park. High balls from the keepers kick outs or punts into the box from our defence or midfield. Only thing wrong was that Viduka hardly got off the ground or kept giving fouls away. It's percentage football we're playing. If he'd won a couple and knocked anything into another toon players path to score we'd be hearing this morning what an outstanding buy, etc.

 

Our team needs time to gel and Sam needs time to get our tactics right, once he does that and once we get the likes of Barton, Duff and Emre back we will be banging them in, not to mention once Owen gets full fitness.

 

What tactics - he wanted to sign players with Premier League experience - so surely to God after all those years at Bolton and having knowledge of the Premier League opposition he should have an idea of the tactics he is going to play. I think we are going to have to get used to 'tactics' like yesterday.

Personally I wouldn't call it tactics, tactics can change, this is a style. Last season we ripped Roeder for not changing tactics when things weren't working. Well it was the same yesterday. 90 minutes of the same from start to finish.

Twice in the game Harper rolled the ball out to a defender. The rest of the time he punted the ball up the park. Every bye kick was also a punt up the park. He even came half way up his own half on occasion to punt free kicks into the opposition penalty box. Other players free kicks were taken like 7 iron golf shots straight to the edge of the eighteen yard box for a knock down. This will get more and more frustrating as the season goes on if things don't change. O'Neil plays the same way so it was sort of cat and mouse.

I'm not slagging anyone off but these tactics will piss off the crowd, the likes of Martins and Owen feeding of knock downs isn't playing to their strengths.

What we saw yesterday was Bolton of old. It was a game I did not enjoy. Football isn't lumpimg a ball up the park.

 

[ohmelads]

Is this the way things are going to be all season? This thread is a knee jerk reaction itself, there's hardly any doom and gloom about man. Most people were philosophical after the match and admitted there's work needs to be done. Then I read all this stuff like "ffs it's week 2 chill out man your fickle as f*** you".

 

Why don't we just call a spade a spade, give Sam/the team praise where they've done a good job, and constructive criticism where they haven't? To say "we did have our chances" sounds good but it's not true and I doubt any neutral watching that match or any Villa fan would agree with that assertion. Taking a step back, 4 points from 6 is a decent enough start, but there's a lot of work to be done yet and most of the reactions I've heard/read were in relation to the performance and not the result, which is fair enough.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I think we did excellent because it was easily a game we could have lost. I never expected our strikers to get much service today due to our midfield but we did have our chances.

 

In Sam's eyes our central striker got excellent service throughout the time he was on the park. High balls from the keepers kick outs or punts into the box from our defence or midfield. Only thing wrong was that Viduka hardly got off the ground or kept giving fouls away. It's percentage football we're playing. If he'd won a couple and knocked anything into another toon players path to score we'd be hearing this morning what an outstanding buy, etc.

 

Our team needs time to gel and Sam needs time to get our tactics right, once he does that and once we get the likes of Barton, Duff and Emre back we will be banging them in, not to mention once Owen gets full fitness.

 

What tactics - he wanted to sign players with Premier League experience - so surely to God after all those years at Bolton and having knowledge of the Premier League opposition he should have an idea of the tactics he is going to play. I think we are going to have to get used to 'tactics' like yesterday.

Personally I wouldn't call it tactics, tactics can change, this is a style. Last season we ripped Roeder for not changing tactics when things weren't working. Well it was the same yesterday. 90 minutes of the same from start to finish.

Twice in the game Harper rolled the ball out to a defender. The rest of the time he punted the ball up the park. Every bye kick was also a punt up the park. He even came half way up his own half on occasion to punt free kicks into the opposition penalty box. Other players free kicks were taken like 7 iron golf shots straight to the edge of the eighteen yard box for a knock down. This will get more and more frustrating as the season goes on if things don't change. O'Neil plays the same way so it was sort of cat and mouse.

I'm not slagging anyone off but these tactics will piss off the crowd, the likes of Martins and Owen feeding of knock downs isn't playing to their strengths.

What we saw yesterday was Bolton of old. It was a game I did not enjoy. Football isn't lumpimg a ball up the park.

 

 

Goalkeepers usually hit the ball up the park. I dont see how that can be a critisism. As for lumping the ball up the park not being football then what is? Playing 4-4-2 and having a few nice touches but getting pissed on 5-1 by Birmingham? Allardyce has already said that his style is the winning type, it didnt work yesterday but its only been 2 games. Things dont need to change imo, we just need to practice. The people in the crowd who get pissed off are just that. In the crowd. Whereas Big Sam, whos a proven premiership manager, is in the dug out because he's just that, a proven premiership manager. One of them knows what football is. The other thinks they know.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Is this the way things are going to be all season? This thread is a knee jerk reaction itself, there's hardly any doom and gloom about man. Most people were philosophical after the match and admitted there's work needs to be done. Then I read all this stuff like "ffs it's week 2 chill down man your fickle as f*** you".

 

Why don't we just call a spade a spade, give Sam/the team praise where they've done a good job, and constructive criticism where they haven't? To say "we did have our chances" sounds good but it's not true and I doubt any neutral watching that match or any Villa fan would agree with that assertion. Taking a step back, 4 points from 6 is a decent enough start, but there's a lot of work to be done yet and most of the reactions I've heard/read were in relation to the performance and not the result, which is fair enough.

 

I think it depends what youve heard. In contrast Ive heard loads of people saying we were s**** and that this and that needs to change. you're right that this in itself is a counter knee jerk if you will, but I think some of us worry about the detrimental effect that some of the other kneejerk can have and want to protect the team from it by going maybe too far the other way before were all agreed that we are s**** because of the detrimental effect that the kneejerk critisism has had. Do you know what I mean? I know that you cant change a lot of people, but you can be optimistic and perhaps be overprotective in order to balance things out a bit more and to get behind the lads when you know we have a good chance of building a very good side for the first time in a long time. Youve made a very very valid point though.

[black_n_white]

Totally agree! I was a little dissapointed yesterday but you have to be realistic..ITS EARLY DAYS! and we look far more solid than many a season! I think Barton will be a massive player for us going forward! Using 3 defensive midfielders is great for away games but we need that attacking player like barton to open up teams in our home games, so just give it time and lets see what happens after 38 matches not 2!!

[Dave]

Wasn't even that bad tbh. Sure, the tactics didn't work (no surprise to me he stuck with a successful system) and we didn't create much at all. But Villa are tough to beat and will be a rival of ours this year. This is still a new team with a new manager. Put it this way, I bet most Villa fans are happy with a point; we are not. That says it all.

[STM]

People forget that Man Utd have two points less than us in two far easier games. They've also conceded a goal more than us and scored one less.

 

Personally, i took alot of positives but i was disapointed we didn't win.

[Unbelievable]

People forget that Man Utd have three points less than us in two far easier games. They've also conceded a goal more than us and scored one less.

 

Personally, i took alot of positives but i was disapointed we didn't win.

 

No they don't.. They look at the performance of Newcastle United and Newcastle United only and conclude there is still a lot of work to be done regardless of other teams' performances and results..

[Baggio]

Love all the "Holier than thou" attitudes here, "I'm a super fan me cos I didn't have a pop at the side after a poor performance, anyone who does is an idiot"

 

Well I freely admit to being one of those "idiots" because that performance was truely shocking, and but for the inemptitude of the Villa Strikers would have sent us away with a defeat, a defeat we would have thoroughly deserved.

 

More worrying than the result was the performance, I can live with a 0-0 against Villa, even though Villa are nothing more than mid table dross themselves. But the performances lacked everything, don't be conned into thinking we kept them out because we gifted them a few good chances, they just weren't good enough to take them, we created very little and showed no desire to step things up and win the game.

 

I still believe in Sam and what he is trying to achieve but things need to improve drastically if they are to achieve what Mike Ashley will be expecting this season, which is Europe whether Mort says it or not. There is still plenty of time of course, and it's still very much early days but don't be surprised if the new owners get impatient if no signs of improvement are made, remember Sam's not their man.

 

Do you think booing the players after a draw will help Sam and what he's trying to achieve then?  It's not a question of being holier than thou, but your reaction to one game is certainly thicker than thick.

 

What an utter disappointing reaction to a point well made. Also, nothing too wrong with that Neil Farrington article. Why can't people just call it like it is and say we were lucky to get a draw and we will need to do better..?

 

We were shite but if you say we were shite then you're an idiot. GREAT.

[Guest TPIB]

 

 

OK we didn't play particularly well, BUT unlike way too many similar games through the decades I've followed this lot, we didn't lose the game or concede a goal.

 

There is massive room for improvement admittedly, but at least we're looking at improvement from an unbeaten position and not from a position of playing shit with shit results behind us.

 

We will get better

 

Villa are VERY solid at the back and will cause lots of teams problems.

[Willow]

 

 

OK we didn't play particularly well, BUT unlike way too many similar games through the decades I've followed this lot, we didn't lose the game or concede a goal.

 

There is massive room for improvement admittedly, but at least we're looking at improvement from an unbeaten position and not from a position of playing shit with shit results behind us.

 

We will get better

 

Villa are VERY solid at the back and will cause lots of teams problems.

 

Exactly.

 

As long as theres people with a bit of common sense, patience and ability to see the bigger picture then they'll mostly keep the doom mongers at bay.

 

We'll need plenty of those kinds of people on this forum to remain positive over the season, fingers crossed the fickle few don't get the better of a potentially fantastic future ahead of us

 

 

 

 

[S.S.R.]

Love all the "Holier than thou" attitudes here, "I'm a super fan me cos I didn't have a pop at the side after a poor performance, anyone who does is an idiot"

 

Well I freely admit to being one of those "idiots" because that performance was truely shocking, and but for the inemptitude of the Villa Strikers would have sent us away with a defeat, a defeat we would have thoroughly deserved.

 

More worrying than the result was the performance, I can live with a 0-0 against Villa, even though Villa are nothing more than mid table dross themselves. But the performances lacked everything, don't be conned into thinking we kept them out because we gifted them a few good chances, they just weren't good enough to take them, we created very little and showed no desire to step things up and win the game.

 

I still believe in Sam and what he is trying to achieve but things need to improve drastically if they are to achieve what Mike Ashley will be expecting this season, which is Europe whether Mort says it or not. There is still plenty of time of course, and it's still very much early days but don't be surprised if the new owners get impatient if no signs of improvement are made, remember Sam's not their man.

 

Do you think booing the players after a draw will help Sam and what he's trying to achieve then?  It's not a question of being holier than thou, but your reaction to one game is certainly thicker than thick.

 

What an utter disappointing reaction to a point well made. Also, nothing too wrong with that Neil Farrington article. Why can't people just call it like it is and say we were lucky to get a draw and we will need to do better..?

 

We were s**** but if you say we were s**** then you're an idiot. GREAT.

 

Exactly. 

 

Not allowed to point out what went wrong without being perceived as 'Kneejerk' or being a 'Doom and Gloom merchant'.

 

I'm quite positive about Sam's plans for the club, but I'm not going to say the last two games were anything but average.

 

I'dbangawhore got through in the same fashion as Anelka did last week. Laursen got a f****** free header (to quote Steve Harper)

 

Allardyce waited far too long to take Viduka off. Keep Viduka away from the box and he's neutered.

 

Alan Smith's daft two-footed challenges to try and cover the fact he did f*** all else.

 

Postives - Harper, Martins, Milner, Halford, Anderson, Rozenhal, Ameobi(!)

[Baggio]

What have the doom merchants said to get everyone's backs up anyway?

 

Apart from pointing out how shit we looked yesterday?

[STM]

Is this the way things are going to be all season? This thread is a knee jerk reaction itself, there's hardly any doom and gloom about man. Most people were philosophical after the match and admitted there's work needs to be done. Then I read all this stuff like "ffs it's week 2 chill out man your fickle as f*** you".

 

Why don't we just call a spade a spade, give Sam/the team praise where they've done a good job, and constructive criticism where they haven't? To say "we did have our chances" sounds good but it's not true and I doubt any neutral watching that match or any Villa fan would agree with that assertion. Taking a step back, 4 points from 6 is a decent enough start, but there's a lot of work to be done yet and most of the reactions I've heard/read were in relation to the performance and not the result, which is fair enough.

 

This.

 

The ones who are over critical are the same ones who think they are "super fans" because its better to be negative. Those who think we are the best team in the league and can't do wrong are just as stupid.

[Guest firetotheworks]

What have the doom merchants said to get everyone's backs up anyway?

 

Apart from pointing out how s*** we looked yesterday?

 

Saying that things need to to be changed after 2 games. We did look shit at times yesterday but that doesnt mean that any sort of football philosophy needs to be changed, just needs practicing in my opinion, were going in the right direction.Its not all about people saying we were shit, thats fair enough, its people saying we're a class act after one game and then saying things need to be changed after we draw against Villa.

[jimmymag]

When you can muster 1 shot shot on target in a home game you fully deserve all the criticism that comes your way.

 

For me it was a very poor performance. More so because from the first minute the system never worked and wasn't changed - except the last desperate 10 minutes when we just pushed forward.

 

Play 4-4-2 - the players understand it. As has been said why make a wide player of a natural striker and expect a natural wide man to be a striker. Viduka was on his own against the entire back 4 for most of the game.

 

And does anyone really think you'll get the best out of Owen when he's being played wide? 

 

I totally agree with your point regarding tactics. Sam seemed to be obsessed with getting a clean sheet at home, and he was very lucky to get it yesterday despite his negative tactics. This seemed to be confirmed by his post match interviews in which he said how important that clean sheet was to him because now he felt he had a foundation to build on.

 

What pisses me off are the "supporters" who are picking out individual players and saying that they're not good enough. IMO we've got a better than average Premiership squad and it's up to Sam to get the best out of it. I'm sure he learned some valuable lessons yesterday, and as long as I see a steady progression throughout this season then I'll be satisfied.

 

[Baggio]

What have the doom merchants said to get everyone's backs up anyway?

 

Apart from pointing out how s*** we looked yesterday?

 

Saying that things need to to be changed after 2 games. We did look shit at times yesterday but that doesnt mean that any sort of football philosophy needs to be changed, just needs practicing in my opinion, were going in the right direction.Its not all about people saying we were shit, thats fair enough, its people saying we're a class act after one game and then saying things need to be changed after we draw against Villa.

 

Things do need to be changed though, a midfield of Butt, Geremi and Smith at home is shocking and creates nothing, at least at Bolton Allardyce had decent ball players in midfield in Speed and Campo but the lads we've got will create very little.

[Guest firetotheworks]

What have the doom merchants said to get everyone's backs up anyway?

 

Apart from pointing out how s*** we looked yesterday?

 

Saying that things need to to be changed after 2 games. We did look s*** at times yesterday but that doesnt mean that any sort of football philosophy needs to be changed, just needs practicing in my opinion, were going in the right direction.Its not all about people saying we were s***, thats fair enough, its people saying we're a class act after one game and then saying things need to be changed after we draw against Villa.

 

Things do need to be changed though, a midfield of Butt, Geremi and Smith at home is shocking and creates nothing, at least at Bolton Allardyce had decent ball players in midfield in Speed and Campo but the lads we've got will create very little.

 

It was one game against one team. Last week in one game against one team it worked swimmingly, does that mean it will always work? No, but one game where it doesnt work doesnt mean it will never work. Theres the kneejerk youre looking for, rather than the jury still being out, which I think it should be.

[S.S.R.]

What have the doom merchants said to get everyone's backs up anyway?

 

Apart from pointing out how s*** we looked yesterday?

 

Saying that things need to to be changed after 2 games. We did look s*** at times yesterday but that doesnt mean that any sort of football philosophy needs to be changed, just needs practicing in my opinion, were going in the right direction.Its not all about people saying we were s***, thats fair enough, its people saying we're a class act after one game and then saying things need to be changed after we draw against Villa.

 

Things do need to be changed though, a midfield of Butt, Geremi and Smith at home is shocking and creates nothing, at least at Bolton Allardyce had decent ball players in midfield in Speed and Campo but the lads we've got will create very little.

 

It was one game against one team. Last week in one game against one team it worked swimmingly,

 

Our first two goals were due to Bolton's inability to clear and the third was a fluke. Bolton handed us that game on a silver platter.

 

The second half was uninspiring, and the way Bolton cut straight through the middle for their goal was repeated a couple of times against Villa. 

 

We've got a long way to go. Hopefully with Barton, Faye and Enrique we'll look a different prospect.

[Dokko]

TBh, this is the least amount of doom & gloom after a shite performance and poor result i've seen for a while.