NJS

Pat Heard John Trewick

I was working as part of university placement in Birmingham and travelled from there on my own. Post-match was looking dodgy so jumped on the special back to the town. Overrall sense of pride but at the same time realisation of the gulf between us and a proper team at the time. I used to travel with a lad known as Coventry John - huge, hard fucker who always wanted me to join him in taking on other fans on the train back to Brum from London games. He told me the next week he'd walked into The Kop pub and pulled his old lad out and pissed on the floor then just walked out - had it confirmed from a couple of others later - what a character he was.

Sort of an embarrassing contradiction. Both valid in my view - at times he was/is a lummox but the point that a decent coach could have got some good out him is also a fair one. Also I'd say the original was more of a serious point and the latter, after he had left, more of a piss-take.

Michael O'Neill. Another loss to "thank" Jim Smith for.

Brilliant solidarity

Probably an overused phrase but I think thats the biggest load of shite I've ever read on the internet - well done.

Ah how I miss that second of pointless hope I get when the ball goes to Shola. Dyer should never play (again). Martins was terrible. I think a team of our standing has to look at results this season against the likes of Reading, Sheff U, Fulham, Charlton and Wigan and just state that pathetic losses to those teams are unacceptable. One or two can be taken but a consistent level of shitness against wank teams is unforgiveable.

Andy Cole - I still think Keegan only did it to show that he could. I know theres bollocks about all out play being aimed at him scoring but thats crap - if you have a 25/30 goal striker you can accomdate him into any system. I'd rather have had Les Ferdinand and Andy Cole and not bothered signing Shearer.

I presume that means Owen won't get a game ahead of "his" Martins and Sibierski.

Belgium Vs USSR Mexico 86 - 4-3 - late night bonanza.

I wonder how many of the "bring them back!!" crowd have only seen us beat them? The agony of defeat outweighs the ecstacy of victory. Get them in the conference.

Sorry, I should have said that obviously you can only do your "best" in your era dependent on age. On expectations perhaps older fans do have more of a sense of fatalism regarding the ongoing failure but that doesn't mean I don't expect or demand success.

I think the thrust was what I've been saying - putting it harshly "sky boy" fans (and quite a few posters on here whose "real" support is tenuous at best) tend to demand loudly that we do better - I'm not going all NE5/LM here but an appreciation (and participtaion in a few of our cases) in the shit years pre Keegan I feel again gives them/us more of a "right" to talk about it. If that becomes condescending or "sneering" in your view then fair enough. They/I don't begrudge interest - its just a question of "earning" the level/degree of that interest. If music plays a large part in your life and you happen to be 40ish or more then what the hell is wrong with being a little "inventive" with some references? I'm not saying being an uber-fan makes your opinion always right - far from it - I've disagreed with a lot of stuff Biffa's written over the years. However I do think it gives that opinion more basic weight and right of respect.

Honest question - what was it that made you think he said that?

In simplistic terms I just meant that the effort put in does in my opinion give people who go to all of the games more of a right to "pontificate" and feel miserable about the losses than people who picked the team with a pin from half-way round the world (and all the levels in between). It might be old fashioned to talk in terms of "better fans" but I don't really give a shit - they are in my book.

Why is pointing out that people who invest more (in terms of effort, time and money) in actually watching the team have more right to feel the "suffering" counts as "disappearing up their own arses"? Gemmill: you had a go at that Pakistani lad for lecturing the people who go to the home games about creating a bad atmosphere - are you now joining the message board mentality that Biffa was attacking in thinking a nominal "login" is somehow equal to year after year of slogging your body around the UK and beyond? I know Biffa and he generally shares my view - that rant could have been written by me last Friday morning though it would probably have had more of an anti-team bias than the fan angle that has obviously hit a massive bullseye judging by the response from people here. Anyone can comment on the team, cheer when we win and feel let down when we lose - I don't dispute that. The point is the level of "pain" felt by people like Biffa is infinitely deeper and "earned" than by others simply by the effort they put in - that might sound like pretensious bollocks - perhaps it is and I know I'll get replies saying people have "lives" which is fair enough but don't then turn around and accuse people of "disappearing up their own arses" just because they occasionally touch a raw nerve.

The bit in bold shows your lack of understanding of what people have been saying about managing players, hardly surprising though. Ferguson is fantastic at man management and it's his methods I agree with, ie he put up with a difficult personality in Keane because he knew how important he was to his team. Ince. Beckham. Stam. Van Nistslerooy. Neville? Crossed once, never forgiven. I'd also add that as far as I can remember Keane had one off the field groundless assault probe - nothing compared to CB.

Sunderland's best hope would be that a move there would apply to his twatness. However I think the one brain cell he does have would realise it wouldn't do him any good really. Also Keane was quick to get rid of the video stars which would suggest his attitude to troublemakers is more from the Ferguson school of management than the HTL/LM one.

"Professionals" who should be 23 levels better than 99% of fans who can't hit the target from anywhere near the goal. "One-footed" players - work on it in training you bastards!!

If Chelsea win the league, it'll be interesting to find out if the media pounce upon the 9 pont lead Man Utd 'blew' in December '06...Somehow, i think they'll overlook that. :roll: Man U lost a 13 point lead to arsenal in 98 I think it was. The problem is that is surrounded by other wins - not one "glorious" failure.

One of the problems was Keegan switching them near the end as if he didn't have the confidence in either (probably the case).

I don't think you can compare a teams first appearance in Europe for years (how many did we take to Antwerp again?) and a "run of the mill" trip for seasoned campaigners. I think most people now look to the "big" games and especially limit themselves to places you can get to on a budget airline. A mate of mine who has gone absolutely everywhere since 94 booked up but then bottled it after the WH stories - I thought he was being a tad soft but I think he's earned that right.

Should I do a search on "I saw him play for Deportivo and he was excellent" I hate being negative about players but blind hope is daft as well.

That seems to be the consensus from too many on here. I think he has had enough chances to show something, anything worth persevering with. I know thanks to the shit squad building in the summer that he has now become a key player and I'd be delighted if he stepped up to the mark but I just don't see it. Blaming Roeder is a cop out given his performances.

Despite his failings this year I don't think Roeder is that daft. I would imagine that he has tried everything to get the lad going - the classic arm around the shoulder, building his confidence up by praose etc, etc - has it worked? - I'd say no. Now he tries a "trick" of saying "this is your chance, the pressure's on - go for it" - who knows it might work coz fuck all else has. Its like when Souness praised Shola when we had nobody else - maybe what he said about the lads ability was crap but what would be the point in saying "Shit, we're stuck with you so get on with it". I will encourage Luque while he is at the club ( and shows a modicum of effort for a start) but the idea that we have this world beater that the idiot manager won't play is laughable.