madras

i'm in the middle. i don't get the criticicism of him but don't get the over the top praise from some either.

fair play to the lad he done well after a nervy start.

still here as it's based on his performances in his 2 1/2 years here. i hope he proves me wrong, i also hope smith,nolan and geremi (if he's still on our books) prove me wrong.

that'll never happen in a million years, i'm sure southampton fans are loving this dunno like, sothampton could do with the cash but how many pompey fans would go there to watch ?.................how far is bournemouth from there ?

Has she ate her one time singing guitar playing partner? probably. Coupled with a few cheeky steak sandwiches from 'Quality Catering'. i think you'll find thats keefaz

surely too early to tell after one game.

pompey are dumber than i thought then and ashleys a genius negotiator could also mean that watford don't get any sell on fee.

he'd be having to think of outbidding others and wages if not fee then hoping we are the most attractive option for the player. worth throwing our hats in the ring but not to go overboard for an as yet unproven player.

Be happy? The past two years have been will have been a lesson to all how not to go about running a football club - lies, underhand deals with agents, employing mates, employing yes men, selling key players at silly times, taking huge gambles which could've potentially ruined the club etc. I could go on. The club isn't financially strong either. It's on a precipice. We're relying on the parachute payments and we need promotion, hence the reason they actually need to spend. They're not exactly cleaning up a mess they inherited any more, they made this mess for themselves. The players deserve credit, Chris Hughton deserves credit, the fans deserve credit. MA and DL deserve f*** all. lies.....name 1 manager,owner,chairman who doesn't. i wouldn't want the truth most of the time. underhand deals with agents........still curious as to why fifa/uefa/fa haven't investigated this further. employing mates...............who doesn't employing yes men..........se above selling key players at silly times..................i take it you mean n'zog and milner, players whom many claimed weren't key players and we have a long history of doing that. taking huge gambles etc...........................some would say freds transfer and wage policy was just that aswell.

it may be the only way forward for the club, given the financial climate. Its a diffrent market now. Things actually seem to be coming together a bit now, Ashley's penny pinching completely f***ed us up, but I think I'd prefer that than us being in a West Ham or Portsmouth situation like we may have been had Sheppard continued his borrowing. The way I see it: Ashley's an idiot, and has gone about pretty much everything the wrong way. Weirdly enough, despite royally cocking up the short term future of the club, it may have saved our long term future. Imagine what we could have done had we had a competent owner. does that mean you think we really had to cut costs and quickly ? It means I think had we continued with the transfer policy we were following under the old board we'd have been screwed. Sadly Ashley took it way too far in the opposite direction and would hardly spend at all. what if he had planned to spend but only when he freed up money by getting rid of some big earning wasters ? not saying thats what happened but it's as likely as "he's an idiot" ? What if he did? Doesn't change the fact that his inability to spend when we really needed it (after selling the likes of Zog) was part of what got us relegated. his inability ?.....wasn't it the clubs inability ? just because we sold zog doesn't mean we have that money to spend when the big wasters were still there. No, his inability. He's the man with the money, he's the one that lets the manager spend or not. Are you honestly saying you were satisfied with the January window last season? It was a joke man, we needed investment and we got Nolan and Taylor. Wasn't good enough, at all. no i wasn't happy but in the position i could just about understand it or as you say, we could have been in pompeys position...is it beyond the realms of possibility that he saw that. still can't excuse him bringing in kinnear and then hughton mind. That's what I'm saying, cocked up the short term future but maybe saved the long term future. Not beyond the realms of possibility that he saw that at all, just think he could still have invested a small amount more to keep us up. Completely agreed on the management, could not have gotten that any worse. but the way you are describing it he didn't cock up the short term future, he saw what it was and realised we couldn't go on like that. madras - in your rewriting of history where Ashley was sorting out our finances are you just going to ignore the fact that the wages went up 12% in Ashley's first year and up again in his next year. That we were buying 26 year old players unproven in our league on high wages while selling our best young players on low wages. If cashflow was a problem can you explain why we were paying up front for players while everyone else pays in instalments and why ALL debts were paid off even the ones which were not due or called in? In Ashley's first year we got an £18m bonus in extra turnover just because of the new TV deal, but that just vanished in the expenditure despite no net spend on players. The extra money that Ashley put into the club in the first 2 years was not in fact all necessary because of the state of the finances when he took over, but was mostly to fund his buy up front but sell on credit policy, and the money he is putting in now is to cover the cost of relegation due to HIS appalling decisions and appointments. His personnel decisions were terrible, but his financial ones were equally as bad. This idea that all the problems the club has had were inevitable and would have happened anyway is rubbish. Between 97 and 01 we had 4 years in the bottom half of the table. During this time the stadium was expanded and the net debt stood at £66m while the turnover was half what it was for Ashley's first year (taken from nufc-finances). Did we go under then? Did we weaken the squad and risk relegation? Nope, in fact we built on the good squad we had and had a moderately successful footballing period because of it. In the 15 years of the old board the final financial position was £70m debt, £45m of which was due to the stadium expansion which was paying for itself (as long as the ground was kept full - as it was). So that's £25m of debt due to the signings, wages, dividends and other costs over the years. Hardly massive financial mismanagement or over extending ourselves in my book, and before Ashley came in and told everyone who wanted to listen he had just saved us from the brink of administration, finances were only a topic of discussion when people were complaining about dividends, and how we weren't spending as much as Liverpool. The only talk of financial worries was from mad fantasising mackems. In fact the only thing particularly wrong with the finances in the last years of Shepherd & Hall was that the wages had grown too high. Not unrectifiable especially given the extra TV money due to come in which meant we only had to maintain our wages at the same level and we'd have been fine. not re-wroting anything at all. yes he fucked up then had to attempt at putting it right. he made a shit position shitter but he done what everyone wanted. let the manager spend etc...............oh and didn't we make a 30mill (?) loss in freds last term ? as for the stadium being kept full i doubt it would have been had fred stayed and how much would he have had to borrow after spending the sponsorship money up front. ashleys mistakes financially were to carry on in freds vein for a while. to say the only thing wrong was the wages got too high is a bit disingenuous as it is by far the biggest outgoing from the club and showed no signs of abaiting given freds last buys.

us,everton,chelsea

didn't realiase it was value added.

and you see fit to tell him what to do with his money ?

possibly, another 5million and we'd possibly still be paying the wages of duff,martins, beye aswell as the fees brought in for them.

even if he thought the alternative was for us to do a pompey ? But it wouldn't. Read in another thread a few days ago that he's still worth £800m, assuming that's accurate, £5m out of his pocket to protect his investment and keep us up would never have turned us into Portsmouth. it's 5mill on top of whatever he put in to start with and where did the nolan and taylor money come from, so in effect you are saying 10mill plus whatever he put in to keep us a float ? You aren't taking the Given or N'Zogbia money into consideration. Plus Taylor was free as a part of that deal. so if we bring in transfer money it has to be used on transfers, not paying other debts ? No of course not, but do you think that another £5m on transfers that would likely have kept us up, would have wrecked our financial situation with our £800m valued owner? not far off another nolan ? so, no. i don't necessarily think another 5mill would have kept us up with kinnear/hughton in charge.

even if he thought the alternative was for us to do a pompey ? But it wouldn't. Read in another thread a few days ago that he's still worth £800m, assuming that's accurate, £5m out of his pocket to protect his investment and keep us up would never have turned us into Portsmouth. it's 5mill on top of whatever he put in to start with and where did the nolan and taylor money come from, so in effect you are saying 10mill plus whatever he put in to keep us a float ? You aren't taking the Given or N'Zogbia money into consideration. Plus Taylor was free as a part of that deal. so if we bring in transfer money it has to be used on transfers, not paying other debts ?

even if he thought the alternative was for us to do a pompey ? But it wouldn't. Read in another thread a few days ago that he's still worth £800m, assuming that's accurate, £5m out of his pocket to protect his investment and keep us up would never have turned us into Portsmouth. it's 5mill on top of whatever he put in to start with and where did the nolan and taylor money come from, so in effect you are saying 10mill plus whatever he put in to keep us a float ?

even if he thought the alternative was for us to do a pompey ?

it may be the only way forward for the club, given the financial climate. Its a diffrent market now. Things actually seem to be coming together a bit now, Ashley's penny pinching completely f***ed us up, but I think I'd prefer that than us being in a West Ham or Portsmouth situation like we may have been had Sheppard continued his borrowing. The way I see it: Ashley's an idiot, and has gone about pretty much everything the wrong way. Weirdly enough, despite royally cocking up the short term future of the club, it may have saved our long term future. Imagine what we could have done had we had a competent owner. does that mean you think we really had to cut costs and quickly ? It means I think had we continued with the transfer policy we were following under the old board we'd have been screwed. Sadly Ashley took it way too far in the opposite direction and would hardly spend at all. what if he had planned to spend but only when he freed up money by getting rid of some big earning wasters ? not saying thats what happened but it's as likely as "he's an idiot" ? What if he did? Doesn't change the fact that his inability to spend when we really needed it (after selling the likes of Zog) was part of what got us relegated. his inability ?.....wasn't it the clubs inability ? just because we sold zog doesn't mean we have that money to spend when the big wasters were still there. No, his inability. He's the man with the money, he's the one that lets the manager spend or not. Are you honestly saying you were satisfied with the January window last season? It was a joke man, we needed investment and we got Nolan and Taylor. Wasn't good enough, at all. no i wasn't happy but in the position i could just about understand it or as you say, we could have been in pompeys position...is it beyond the realms of possibility that he saw that. still can't excuse him bringing in kinnear and then hughton mind. That's what I'm saying, cocked up the short term future but maybe saved the long term future. Not beyond the realms of possibility that he saw that at all, just think he could still have invested a small amount more to keep us up. Completely agreed on the management, could not have gotten that any worse. but the way you are describing it he didn't cock up the short term future, he saw what it was and realised we couldn't go on like that. By short term future I mean very short term, as in our relegation. i'm still of the opinion that he took the risk on us staying up and getting rid of the big earners. we'd have been in a very good position financially had it came off. wether it was to sell for a profit, him to milk the profits or to grow the club, who knows. he may even have saw a pompey situation coming had we not cut costs straight away.

it may be the only way forward for the club, given the financial climate. Its a diffrent market now. Things actually seem to be coming together a bit now, Ashley's penny pinching completely f***ed us up, but I think I'd prefer that than us being in a West Ham or Portsmouth situation like we may have been had Sheppard continued his borrowing. The way I see it: Ashley's an idiot, and has gone about pretty much everything the wrong way. Weirdly enough, despite royally cocking up the short term future of the club, it may have saved our long term future. Imagine what we could have done had we had a competent owner. does that mean you think we really had to cut costs and quickly ? It means I think had we continued with the transfer policy we were following under the old board we'd have been screwed. Sadly Ashley took it way too far in the opposite direction and would hardly spend at all. what if he had planned to spend but only when he freed up money by getting rid of some big earning wasters ? not saying thats what happened but it's as likely as "he's an idiot" ? What if he did? Doesn't change the fact that his inability to spend when we really needed it (after selling the likes of Zog) was part of what got us relegated. his inability ?.....wasn't it the clubs inability ? just because we sold zog doesn't mean we have that money to spend when the big wasters were still there. No, his inability. He's the man with the money, he's the one that lets the manager spend or not. Are you honestly saying you were satisfied with the January window last season? It was a joke man, we needed investment and we got Nolan and Taylor. Wasn't good enough, at all. no i wasn't happy but in the position i could just about understand it or as you say, we could have been in pompeys position...is it beyond the realms of possibility that he saw that. still can't excuse him bringing in kinnear and then hughton mind. That's what I'm saying, cocked up the short term future but maybe saved the long term future. Not beyond the realms of possibility that he saw that at all, just think he could still have invested a small amount more to keep us up. Completely agreed on the management, could not have gotten that any worse. but the way you are describing it he didn't cock up the short term future, he saw what it was and realised we couldn't go on like that.

it may be the only way forward for the club, given the financial climate. Its a diffrent market now. Things actually seem to be coming together a bit now, Ashley's penny pinching completely f***ed us up, but I think I'd prefer that than us being in a West Ham or Portsmouth situation like we may have been had Sheppard continued his borrowing. The way I see it: Ashley's an idiot, and has gone about pretty much everything the wrong way. Weirdly enough, despite royally cocking up the short term future of the club, it may have saved our long term future. Imagine what we could have done had we had a competent owner. does that mean you think we really had to cut costs and quickly ? It means I think had we continued with the transfer policy we were following under the old board we'd have been screwed. Sadly Ashley took it way too far in the opposite direction and would hardly spend at all. what if he had planned to spend but only when he freed up money by getting rid of some big earning wasters ? not saying thats what happened but it's as likely as "he's an idiot" ? What if he did? Doesn't change the fact that his inability to spend when we really needed it (after selling the likes of Zog) was part of what got us relegated. his inability ?.....wasn't it the clubs inability ? just because we sold zog doesn't mean we have that money to spend when the big wasters were still there. No, his inability. He's the man with the money, he's the one that lets the manager spend or not. Are you honestly saying you were satisfied with the January window last season? It was a joke man, we needed investment and we got Nolan and Taylor. Wasn't good enough, at all. no i wasn't happy but in the position i could just about understand it or as you say, we could have been in pompeys position...is it beyond the realms of possibility that he saw that. still can't excuse him bringing in kinnear and then hughton mind.

it may be the only way forward for the club, given the financial climate. Its a diffrent market now. Things actually seem to be coming together a bit now, Ashley's penny pinching completely f***ed us up, but I think I'd prefer that than us being in a West Ham or Portsmouth situation like we may have been had Sheppard continued his borrowing. The way I see it: Ashley's an idiot, and has gone about pretty much everything the wrong way. Weirdly enough, despite royally cocking up the short term future of the club, it may have saved our long term future. Imagine what we could have done had we had a competent owner. does that mean you think we really had to cut costs and quickly ? It means I think had we continued with the transfer policy we were following under the old board we'd have been screwed. Sadly Ashley took it way too far in the opposite direction and would hardly spend at all. what if he had planned to spend but only when he freed up money by getting rid of some big earning wasters ? not saying thats what happened but it's as likely as "he's an idiot" ? What if he did? Doesn't change the fact that his inability to spend when we really needed it (after selling the likes of Zog) was part of what got us relegated. his inability ?.....wasn't it the clubs inability ? just because we sold zog doesn't mean we have that money to spend when the big wasters were still there.

really think we ought to have a special song for them tomorrow. any ideas ?

it may be the only way forward for the club, given the financial climate. Its a diffrent market now. Things actually seem to be coming together a bit now, Ashley's penny pinching completely f***ed us up, but I think I'd prefer that than us being in a West Ham or Portsmouth situation like we may have been had Sheppard continued his borrowing. The way I see it: Ashley's an idiot, and has gone about pretty much everything the wrong way. Weirdly enough, despite royally cocking up the short term future of the club, it may have saved our long term future. Imagine what we could have done had we had a competent owner. does that mean you think we really had to cut costs and quickly ? It means I think had we continued with the transfer policy we were following under the old board we'd have been screwed. Sadly Ashley took it way too far in the opposite direction and would hardly spend at all. what if he had planned to spend but only when he freed up money by getting rid of some big earning wasters ? not saying thats what happened but it's as likely as "he's an idiot" ?

it may be the only way forward for the club, given the financial climate. Its a diffrent market now. Things actually seem to be coming together a bit now, Ashley's penny pinching completely f***ed us up, but I think I'd prefer that than us being in a West Ham or Portsmouth situation like we may have been had Sheppard continued his borrowing. The way I see it: Ashley's an idiot, and has gone about pretty much everything the wrong way. Weirdly enough, despite royally cocking up the short term future of the club, it may have saved our long term future. Imagine what we could have done had we had a competent owner. does that mean you think we really had to cut costs and quickly ?