madras

even more frightening when you think that means guthrie,nolan and taylor.

leeds seems a strange choice for a club desperate to do everything on the cheap. think of all the extra police etc we'll need compared to if we'd played wigan or some such.

They are just two positions above Fiji Good luck to them in any case, is it possible for South and North Korea to be drawn together in the group stages? they just have been in the qualifiers.

money. good for him though.

the ref telling an egyptian to move back so the italians can take a long throw ? when did this start ?

he left because he was told that he would have to sell to buy, he had already bought a and built a title challenging team, the board changed to wanting to make money rather then win summik. Having said that KD was still given some canny wedge to spend. In that scenario of KK staying you'd have to imagine that he wouldn;t have had to sell anyone. if he stayed of course. see what i mean. a definitive reason why he left has never been established. he himself used the "the club was becoming a plc and i was going to have to commit to longer than i felt happy with" reason. also the " i wasn't happy with how the club would be ran as a plc" reason and at the time the "i've taking them as far as i can" reason. doug and fred reckon they got rid of him and there was the story he left after giving yet another ultimatum about signing beppe signori. one of them may be true.

If KK left without provocation, then why did no half decent manager want to take his place at NUFC? On the other hand, why hasn't there been a queue of clubs saying, "Here you go Kev, it's all yours"? Because a lot of people in football fall for the oft peddled myth that he's a quitter rather than a man of principle. Given the present circumstances my money would be on Southampton returning to the Premiership before we do; he gets teams promoted. At this point in time, and if they get Keegan, that'd be a good bet. I just can't understand why any NUFC fan can be negative towards Keegan. either too young, stupid, deliberate agitator, or an arse hole Tbh, the people who do have question marks about him have exactly the same views that Ginola & Beresford had on that programme a few weeks ago. Both of those felt let down/betrayed that Keegan walked out when he did first time, in a similar way some fans feel let down by him this time. I think everyone felt let down/betrayed at the time its only when the dust settles you find out reasons. he still left us at the peak and with the best team we had in decades. I bet if we pushed on under another manager won summik people would be saying "he helped kick start the club" but instead the club has been on a fcking m,assive decline with only SBR getting us in any decent positions again. Everything else has been utter f***ing shyte. the dust settled a long time ago....why did he leave the first time ?

and an adminstrationometer adjudicator.

to be fair he only really worked the magic here. at fulham and citeh he was given spending power far in advance of the competition. (i think)

All that typing and you didn't even read it? He never does. yes i read it, the main point that stood out for me was "before player trading" did you catch that bit...almost as if it doesn't count and we don't have to pay for the paying staff. if you'd notice the club hasn't been able to break even,even with the extra 18mill....how come ? or are you saying the old board would have been able to ship out the high earners and brought players in on lowetr wages. just that with the players brought in by the club before fred left that didn't seem to be the plan. Did you read the sentence after it? The one which includes all cash in and cash out? I said that there was a loss of around £10m, it's not like I'm trying to hide it. Most of that came from the debt repayments, player trading actually amounted to about £2m of the loss. That Summer we shipped out high earners like Parker, Dyer, Emre, Luque, Carr, Babayaro and Solano. There was certainly plenty of scope for at least maintaining the wage bill at a similar level. The reason the club hasn't been able to break even in the last few years is due to how Ashley has "sorted out the finances" since he took over. The 2 main ones being the fact that the wage bill has gone up around 22% in 2 years, and that the club has been paying upfront for transfers in while transfers out are being paid for in instalments (not necessarily a bad thing per se, but it doesn't look good on the books until you've been running it like that for a few years). we shipped out those players, were we still paying for them ? did the wage bill go up because of their replacements ? put simply we were losing money and i personally couldn't see the playing side getting better, which would lead to more losses. (basically what has happened in any case)

All that typing and you didn't even read it? He never does. yes i read it, the main point that stood out for me was "before player trading" did you catch that bit...almost as if it doesn't count and we don't have to pay for the paying staff. if you'd notice the club hasn't been able to break even,even with the extra 18mill....how come ? or are you saying the old board would have been able to ship out the high earners and brought players in on lowetr wages. just that with the players brought in by the club before fred left that didn't seem to be the plan.

The club may have been balance sheet insolvent (as are half the premiership) but it was not cash flow insolvent. "Many large companies operate permanently in this state." - Wiki. The net debt repayments were around £7m per year. This is not an unsustainable amount. The majority of the debt was the £45m remaining on the stadium loan which was a long term contract that couldn't be foreclosed on unless the ownership changed, so your doomsday scenario of all the debtors wanting their money NOW could not in fact have happened under the old board with the financial arrangements they had in place. In 06-07, the operational loss before player trading & amortisation was £0.3m. The actual cash flow loss was < £10m more out than in. Not great, however this was in the knowledge that we were going to get a £18m boost in turnover the following year from TV revenue alone. Running the club in the same way (that includes having a £10m transfer budget), with anything less than a 14% increase in expenditure (due to wages say) would have seen us break even or make a profit. Are you telling me that would have been impossible to do under the old board? That they were inevitably going to let costs run away even more? It's possible they would have increased the debt slightly if they could get the finance, but it was certainly not a necessary inevitability as some are making out. I know I keep mentioning it, but I think it's an important point when the old board is being accused of financial mismanagement based on the amount of the debt, but the majority of the debt was due to the stadium expansion which was paying for itself over time and bringing in extra revenue. I don't know about you, but I don't call this financial mismanagement, I call it a shrewd investment. Only the remainder of the debt, around £25m, was due to "wasting money on trophy players", to get us into Europe on average 1 year in 2. This level of operational debt is less than most clubs in the premiership (all but Blackburn and the the 3 promoted teams in 07-08). Again, I fail to see how anyone can call this level of debt financial mismanagement,. Finally, in response to you're implication that we were in debt up to our absolute limit in another thread, I apologise for the lack of credibility and the location of the link, but I couldn't find a better source. I have no reason to think the Man U fan made it up : http://www.joinmust.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24381 I guess a lot must have changed in a year. The idea that we were days away from administration before Ashley came along and saved us (Ashley himself being the biggest proponent of this myth) is about as ridiculous as the idea of Ashley putting the club into administration now. but was it not that everything had been hocked and the club was losing money...where was the money going to come from to cover these year on year losses. i personally think we were reaching a position like west ham when the banks just said "sorry,no more"

talk to any ex-pros and they'll tell tales of training ground fisticuffs, it happens but barton went too far too often.

if he was just a player who had got sent off then yes....but it was more than that rerally wasn't it ? a bit like when you gave examples of clough/ferguson........but neither of them had joey barton and everything that goes with him (oh and by the way clough would often be outspoken in the press about his players and would quite probably have been more outspoken ithan shearer in this instance) Different era with clough but Im sure Paul McGrath was a bit of a handful for Fergie, as was Yorke, not in the same class but the examples are there, SBR consistently got the best out of Bellmay even though he was a jumped up prick and a thug as well, his downfall was probably that he may of been too lenient howeverhe didnt drag the club thorugh the mud when things went wrong. Really struggling for inspiration here, gonna cut my losses. i iunderstand your point i just think joey barton is a different level of knacka and defending him in any way wouldn't have done the club any good. Barton is a nutcase. bartons a violent knacka......you are a nutcase. Does the name Cantona ring any bells when it comes to Fergie's handling of nutjob football players? not quite in bartons psycho league i'm afraid. Are you sure? We are talking about a player who lunged two footed into the crowd on live TV. It's also worth noting Cantona fell out with every manager he served under until Fergie. kicked someone in a crowd is hardly stubbing a cigar out in a team mates eye or attacking a team mate and continuing to do it when he;s out cold,then getting imprisoned for was it plain old assault or abh ? theres falling out with people then there is regular violence. I think you need to know a little bit more about Cantona. From wikipedia: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm punched someone,threw boots and a ball.......knocked no-one out and hospitalised no one, i suspect his punches were like dyers and bowyers.

if he was just a player who had got sent off then yes....but it was more than that rerally wasn't it ? a bit like when you gave examples of clough/ferguson........but neither of them had joey barton and everything that goes with him (oh and by the way clough would often be outspoken in the press about his players and would quite probably have been more outspoken ithan shearer in this instance) Different era with clough but Im sure Paul McGrath was a bit of a handful for Fergie, as was Yorke, not in the same class but the examples are there, SBR consistently got the best out of Bellmay even though he was a jumped up prick and a thug as well, his downfall was probably that he may of been too lenient howeverhe didnt drag the club thorugh the mud when things went wrong. Really struggling for inspiration here, gonna cut my losses. i iunderstand your point i just think joey barton is a different level of knacka and defending him in any way wouldn't have done the club any good. Barton is a nutcase. bartons a violent knacka......you are a nutcase. Does the name Cantona ring any bells when it comes to Fergie's handling of nutjob football players? not quite in bartons psycho league i'm afraid. Are you sure? We are talking about a player who lunged two footed into the crowd on live TV. It's also worth noting Cantona fell out with every manager he served under until Fergie. kicked someone in a crowd is hardly stubbing a cigar out in a team mates eye or attacking a team mate and continuing to do it when he;s out cold,then getting imprisoned for was it plain old assault or abh ? theres falling out with people then there is regular violence.

if he was just a player who had got sent off then yes....but it was more than that rerally wasn't it ? a bit like when you gave examples of clough/ferguson........but neither of them had joey barton and everything that goes with him (oh and by the way clough would often be outspoken in the press about his players and would quite probably have been more outspoken ithan shearer in this instance) Different era with clough but Im sure Paul McGrath was a bit of a handful for Fergie, as was Yorke, not in the same class but the examples are there, SBR consistently got the best out of Bellmay even though he was a jumped up prick and a thug as well, his downfall was probably that he may of been too lenient howeverhe didnt drag the club thorugh the mud when things went wrong. Really struggling for inspiration here, gonna cut my losses. i iunderstand your point i just think joey barton is a different level of knacka and defending him in any way wouldn't have done the club any good. Barton is a nutcase. bartons a violent knacka......you are a nutcase. Does the name Cantona ring any bells when it comes to Fergie's handling of nutjob football players? not quite in bartons psycho league i'm afraid.

if he was just a player who had got sent off then yes....but it was more than that rerally wasn't it ? a bit like when you gave examples of clough/ferguson........but neither of them had joey barton and everything that goes with him (oh and by the way clough would often be outspoken in the press about his players and would quite probably have been more outspoken ithan shearer in this instance) Different era with clough but Im sure Paul McGrath was a bit of a handful for Fergie, as was Yorke, not in the same class but the examples are there, SBR consistently got the best out of Bellmay even though he was a jumped up prick and a thug as well, his downfall was probably that he may of been too lenient howeverhe didnt drag the club thorugh the mud when things went wrong. Really struggling for inspiration here, gonna cut my losses. i iunderstand your point i just think joey barton is a different level of knacka and defending him in any way wouldn't have done the club any good. Barton is a nutcase. bartons a violent knacka......you are a nutcase.

if he was just a player who had got sent off then yes....but it was more than that rerally wasn't it ? a bit like when you gave examples of clough/ferguson........but neither of them had joey barton and everything that goes with him (oh and by the way clough would often be outspoken in the press about his players and would quite probably have been more outspoken ithan shearer in this instance) Didnt Brian Clough clump Roy Keane in the dressing room ? Clough also turned Kenny Burns from a thug into a class footballer. he turned him from an aggressive footballer with a temprament problem into and aggressive footballer who could use his talent. he was never a neo psychotically violent thug.

if he was just a player who had got sent off then yes....but it was more than that rerally wasn't it ? a bit like when you gave examples of clough/ferguson........but neither of them had joey barton and everything that goes with him (oh and by the way clough would often be outspoken in the press about his players and would quite probably have been more outspoken ithan shearer in this instance) Different era with clough but Im sure Paul McGrath was a bit of a handful for Fergie, as was Yorke, not in the same class but the examples are there, SBR consistently got the best out of Bellmay even though he was a jumped up prick and a thug as well, his downfall was probably that he may of been too lenient howeverhe didnt drag the club thorugh the mud when things went wrong. Really struggling for inspiration here, gonna cut my losses. i iunderstand your point i just think joey barton is a different level of knacka and defending him in any way wouldn't have done the club any good.

gallowgate has similar views and closer to the pubs of the city centre.

was in keegans first stint aswell.

if he was just a player who had got sent off then yes....but it was more than that rerally wasn't it ? a bit like when you gave examples of clough/ferguson........but neither of them had joey barton and everything that goes with him (oh and by the way clough would often be outspoken in the press about his players and would quite probably have been more outspoken ithan shearer in this instance)

this is nufc....nothing happens quick

Yeah. Like the media aren’t going to find out Barton had been suspended. If you want to poke holes in Shearer’s eight game spell his numerous tactical changes would be a better bet. An experienced manager would probably have kept it simple and consistent, but even that carries little weight such was the desperate state of the club when he came in. We don’t know how good a manager Shearer might be, but to compare him to Souness and Keane because he didn’t publicly kiss Barton’s bollocks is plain stupid. and he wasn't helped by inheriting a very unbalanced,thin squad and getting the usual nufc injury crisis. (and the odd suspension to contend with)

Christ - im sure i said "good/great" not that that makes any difference to the post. If you neither agree or disagree with my post then why say anything? I dont think he will be a good manager - more in the mould of Souness, people who diasgree with me think he'll be nothing like Souness and will be a good manager, theres no grey area here, you either want him here becasue you think he'll be a good manager or you dont want him here becasue you dont. Im struggling to see whats so difficult to comprehend, if you diasgree with me then what is it that you've physcially seen which makes you think he might become a good manager? Just because I've argued against you claiming he's going to be like Souness doesn't mean I automatically think he's going to be good or great. What? So my relatively irrelavent comparison to Souness is your only point of contention? What have we achieved? If you look back yes, that's the only thing I've been disputing. Considering it's at the core of why you think he's not going to be any good I reckon it's worthy of discussion. I simply don't see any similarities to Souness (ie the Bellamy affair) whatsoever. Then we're gonna have to agree to disagree. Ive also mentioned Keane and Ince. Ive also mentioned Wenger, Mourihno and Ferguson as counter examples of what im trying to explain. but none of them were dealing with joey barton.