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It depends on how you define "do badly". Personally I define any season where we don't get relegated as "okay". Edit: You edited. ^ that doesn't make much sense in the context of the edit. I think you're underestimating the ability of money to miraculously improve the apparent ability of managers. (eg Martin Jol). Do you think Avram Grant is a top class manager? He seems to be doing okay.

Because Souness is shite. I'll simplify it for you: Shit manager + no money = do badly Shit manager + lots of money = do okay, might get lucky occasionally Good manager + no money = do okay, might get lucky occasionally Good manager + lots of money = do well

We were up there when we were spending the money though. If we stop spending money then we definitely wont be. Don't forget to add in wages when you talk about expenditure too. Arsenal get away with not spending as much on transfers as the other "big 4" because of Wenger, but they still have a much higher wage bill than us. So will you be happy with the level of success shown by for example Charlton under Curbishley, or Bolton under Allardyce? They both had the stability and solid foundations you are talking about over the period where we didn't but were "spending ridiculous amounts" which didn't work at all; except for getting us into Europe/cup finals of course. Also could you explain how you account for the most successful team in Europe? Hint: since 1990 - 5 league titles, 4 domestic cups, 3 european cups, 20 (twenty) managers.

Mercenary! Seriously though: If the reason we have been so poor (over the season) was because he was trying to get players to adapt to a system he is convinced is for the best in the long run, then I would have some patience & understanding, even if personally I think he'd be wrong in doing that. However if he honestly thinks the system he's been using is the one which best suits the current players, then you have to seriously question his tactical abilities.

I don't care what he was touted as when he was 18, he's no more experienced in the PL at left back than Enrique is. Unless of course you think just watching Babayaro and Ramage do the job is experience enough.

He's protecting a 21 year old foreign player by playing a 21 year old foreign player out of position. If he's protecting Enrique is he sacrificing N'Zogbia? To be honest, I fail to see how being kept out of the team by someone playing out of position is "protecting" the player and giving him confidence. If he had played & been terrible in a couple of games, then fair enough give him a rest, but he's not been that bad when he's played has he? No worse than N'Zogbia (defensively) anyway. When players are in & out of the team it's often used as an excuse for WHY they play badly when they do play (eg N'Zogbia, Luque), so how does it HELP the player in this case? We have a run of 4 relatively easy games coming up before the season starts to get really hard for us. I think we'll see by whether or not he plays in these games as to whether Sam is "protecting" him or just doesn't think he's good enough.

That's where we have been going wrong, our players should of been doing reverse psychology. Isn't that what Allardyce has been trying? "We'll never beat this Derby side lads. I want to see you all back defending." Doesn't always work.

There was also a trademark Bramble sliced clearance which his own keeper had to save to prevent an own goal LOL Remember that time he was so poor he was taken off after 18 minutes when we were 3-0 down at home after 11 minutes.

I get a different total to you: F 16 A 13 Pts 19 Sunderland = Reading Birmingham = Sheff Utd Derby = Watford But the point still stands. We're not really doing better than last season at all.

As few as we have this season without him? You're right. He's not wrong.

It is? I've missed it then. Please enlighten me as to the visible progress made by Allardyce.

Go on then. You start.

I'll repeat what I said in another thread - we have less points and have conceded far more goals this season than from the equivalent fixtures last season. We're in a deceptively high position simply because of the relative ease of our early fixtures. I'm not calling for Sam's head, but sticking your own in the sand and pretending we're okay serves no purpose other than to increase the disappointment and panic when we start dropping down the table which we will do unless performances improve dramatically.

We have less points and have conceded loads more goals this season than from the equivalent fixtures last season. We're in a deceptively high position simply because of the relative ease of our early fixtures.

If he thinks that about the England team, what does he think about his own squad. Bar probably Carson every single player last night would walk into the Sunderland 1st team.

http://www.crewclothing.co.uk/public/images/product/outofstock.gif There are so many points in that post to take issue with it would take until next week to address them all, but this... Was it the sequence of league finished that bothered you? Obviously, and the associated implication that Allardyce started with the worst team we'd had since getting in the Premiership. Is accuracy expecting TOO MUCH?

http://www.crewclothing.co.uk/public/images/product/outofstock.gif There are so many points in that post to take issue with it would take until next week to address them all, but this...

A separate competition for women only is sexist and as such should not be endorsed or subsidised by the FA in any way. Women should be able to compete with male footballers for places in the full England squad. Equality for all.

Cheers for the history lesson, but the transfer window wasn't used in the Premiership until the 02-03 season. Sep 1999 Jose Rodrigues Alves Antunas ("Fumaca") MID Cantuna Loan Oct 1999 Kevin Gallacher FWD Blackburn £700,000 Nov 1999 Marino Rodrigues Cristovao Helder DEF Deportivo La Coruna £500,000 (for one season) Surely the first responsibility of a manager is to get as effective a team as he can from the players at his disposal onto the pitch.

Statistics - can be used to prove or disprove anything you want. - Discuss Best league start in ages - Discuss "Easiest" season start of any other team in the league. Current league positions of teams we've played so far: 18, 8, 17, 19, 20, 10, 3, 9, 14, 12, 6, 16 2 teams in the top 7, 6 of the bottom 7.

I wouldn't call myself a virulent Allardyce sceptic but seriously - "too many of his current squad are well short of fitness". What? How bloody long does it take to get players fit? He's had over 4 months FFS!

I hope none of the people arguing that he should be given a couple of seasons at least regardless of results or performances wanted Roeder out after one season beset by massive injuries.

Yep I'm sure were likely to see Cech, Reina and Van der Sar on the bench. You missed out Lehmann. Wonder why?

Ignoring the fact you're wrong, did Man U win those championships by going into a season with their youngsters having no adequate backup and expecting them to play 50 - 60+ games? Oh, sorry I forgot we had Luque and Emre who could play just as well on the left wing too. I don't believe N'Zogbia's form went to shit because we bought Duff, it was just a coincidence. If it did is that the sort of player we want to be relying on anyway? One that can't stand a bit of competition? So we're currently in this period with Allardyce then? I guess we should expect performances to get worse.

Good post. I could have written that myself.