BottledDog

Last night a footballer that I couldn't give two fucks about scored a goal for a team that I couldn't give two fucks about. Now get a grip. Fucker. So why even bother to comment about him in the thread then Gem? I really fucking hope so. See, no point getting all het up, you do care really.

I'm not sure if your memory is playing tricks on you but how was Souness saying on TV in a very snarky manner that Bellamy walked out of training with an 'injury' NOT taking the matter any further. It was clearly not agreed that Souness would protect his dropping of Bellamy by blaming the no-show on injury, as it was quite clear that Bellamy was caught on the hop, failed to think on his feet and back up that lie under pressure. He responded by saying that he was fit to play. Doing the interview in the first place was possibly foolish, but I'm not sure damning him for telling the truth is entirely fair. Souness baited Bellamy, and Bellamy (as expected) fell for it. And that was wrong too, no-one has said Souness handled the whole affair well or excuses him of any blame, the fact of the matter is this: Bellamy agreed to end the matter behind closed doors with the Chairman and manager, then went back on that to ridicule them live on TV, he even ignored the pleas of his best mate Kieron Dyer and his agent and lawyer. Freddy Shepherd as Chairman had every right to peddle him for that alone, never mind what went on before, regardless of what Souness wanted or not, a decision I believe to be 100% correct and something I supported 100%, for once the board put the club first and a line was drawn. Now had they drawn a line when Bellamy first acted the bollocks, or Dyer (instead of rewarding said player with a bumper new contract) these problems may well never have surfaced. Or they could have just not appointed Souness, a man we all knew and said would look to get rid of the Bellamys and Roberts. Either way they acted on what was a serious discipline issue and good for them. Yous lot paint a picture of innocence where poor lickle Cwaigy is concerned, had he kept his mouth shut in the first place he'd still be here. Had he took his substitution at the Valley like a man instead of calling his manager a c*** or whatever it was, he wouldn't have been reprimanded like the little child he is in front of the full squad to piss him off to the extent of feining injury and causing this whole sorry afair. Souness pushed him of course but Bellamy reacted in the wrong manner, every action leads to a reaction and all that and his reaction caused his demise here at Newcastle, not Souness', not NUFC's, his fate was in his own hands. Telling the truth has nowt to do with it either, he was wrong to speak out full stop. I seem to remember you and others slagging Souness for coming out with "you'll never win anything with a team of Milners", he was speaking the truth was he not? Yes, but he was wrong to say what he did because it undermined the Milners at the club, well Bellamy undermined his manager, Chairman, his team-mates, the club and fans by going live on TV to say his manager and Chairman were liars. Being accused of feining injury is a serious accusation, why didn't he take Souness to court, or the club even? Because he didn't have a leg to stand on, instead he pleaded his innocence and said a few things about how much he loves the club and fans, how he couldn't play for another team among accusing his employer and manager of being liars We all know Bellamy is a selfish individual with an attitude problem, if his manager wanted to play him wide right, that's the manager's right and he as a professional should get on with it, even if playing him wide right was an anal decision. You don't hear Nobby, Talyor, Shola or others pissing and moaning, but then they are professionals and respect their manager/the club. Some of the excuses made for Bellamy are hilarious like , he's a grown man and did wrong, he paid for it, end of. Like I said, had he done what he did under SBR or KK, there would have been hell on, the fact that Graeme Souness, despised by many, was in charge negates everything for the blinkered which is sad, judge things on their indiviodual merit. All through this thread I have said he f***** up, he puts peoples noses out of joint etc etc, there is no argument there. But you still seem to be oblivious to the actual points being made, especially considering the last few lines of your post (including the rather amusing part where you call other people 'blinkered'). There would not 'have been hell on' under SBR or KK because it would have been unlikely to ever happened under SBR or KK, just as it has not happened under any of his numerous other managers who were often quoted relishing his attitude rather than rubbing against it. It is impossible to 'judge things on their individual merit' or on the final flourish in a long drawn out and all to predictable charade, simply because it should have never got to that point and it is a great shame that it did. Poor lickle Cwaigy hasn't missed out here, (despite some cretins saying he would never play at the level of Newcastle ever again he has just played a major role in his team beating Barca at the Nou Camp), we have. I don't see anyone defending Bellamy for Bellamy’s sake, but because his departure hurt the club and the argument all along was simply that the greatest factor in us failing to retain such a valuable asset for pennies was astonishingly bad management, and not Bellamy himself. it did happen under robson and he was allowed to get away with it,which is why he and others thought they could take the piss from then on and why we were going backwards before souness even came in. What, he effectivelly called Robson a liar on TV did he? Missed that. There must have been hell on. Also wouldn't mind you clarifying what you mean by taking the piss and causing the slide? I don't recall him putting in many substandard performances on the pitch, slacking off and causing us to slide down the table. when you say it's unlikely there'd be hell on under KK or SBR,he did tell robson to fuck off and there should have been hell on for that and ignoring team orders,there wasn't! and how come he was part of a better team than we have now and we were going backwards,robson never tried to play him out of position again,dyer was crucified for doing it...how come ? you know i didn't mean the exact same scenario occurred,so why try and score cheap points ? I'm not scoring cheap points. I took HTT to mean that if he had done what he did, i.e 'the interview' under Robson then there would have been hell on. He may have told Robson to fuck off, I cannot remember the context (and as Carver says it was not an unusual part of Craig's vocabulary) but the point was that Robson held onto him because like all his other managers bar Souness, Robson understood it was worth the hassle because of the things the player brought to the team. Whether there should or should not have been hell on is not my arguement, take it up with HTT. As to laying the blame for the team going backwards at Bellamy's door again, I'm still trying to understand what you mean. Why was Dyer crucified and not Bellamy? No idea, different scenarios? Besides, I dismiss that idea that he was in such a position to force Robson to only play him up front, nevermind accepting that his not being played out of postion added to our 'slide'. Apart from Shearer needing his legs alongside him for the most part, and apart from being a bit shit at crossing, it was not as if we had that a great selection of strikers at the club at the time to have the leeway to put arguably our best forward out on the wing. Certainly as a strikeforce it was no better or even that much deeper than the one we have at present were Owen anywhere near the first team.

I'm not sure if your memory is playing tricks on you but how was Souness saying on TV in a very snarky manner that Bellamy walked out of training with an 'injury' NOT taking the matter any further. It was clearly not agreed that Souness would protect his dropping of Bellamy by blaming the no-show on injury, as it was quite clear that Bellamy was caught on the hop, failed to think on his feet and back up that lie under pressure. He responded by saying that he was fit to play. Doing the interview in the first place was possibly foolish, but I'm not sure damning him for telling the truth is entirely fair. Souness baited Bellamy, and Bellamy (as expected) fell for it. And that was wrong too, no-one has said Souness handled the whole affair well or excuses him of any blame, the fact of the matter is this: Bellamy agreed to end the matter behind closed doors with the Chairman and manager, then went back on that to ridicule them live on TV, he even ignored the pleas of his best mate Kieron Dyer and his agent and lawyer. Freddy Shepherd as Chairman had every right to peddle him for that alone, never mind what went on before, regardless of what Souness wanted or not, a decision I believe to be 100% correct and something I supported 100%, for once the board put the club first and a line was drawn. Now had they drawn a line when Bellamy first acted the bollocks, or Dyer (instead of rewarding said player with a bumper new contract) these problems may well never have surfaced. Or they could have just not appointed Souness, a man we all knew and said would look to get rid of the Bellamys and Roberts. Either way they acted on what was a serious discipline issue and good for them. Yous lot paint a picture of innocence where poor lickle Cwaigy is concerned, had he kept his mouth shut in the first place he'd still be here. Had he took his substitution at the Valley like a man instead of calling his manager a c*** or whatever it was, he wouldn't have been reprimanded like the little child he is in front of the full squad to piss him off to the extent of feining injury and causing this whole sorry afair. Souness pushed him of course but Bellamy reacted in the wrong manner, every action leads to a reaction and all that and his reaction caused his demise here at Newcastle, not Souness', not NUFC's, his fate was in his own hands. Telling the truth has nowt to do with it either, he was wrong to speak out full stop. I seem to remember you and others slagging Souness for coming out with "you'll never win anything with a team of Milners", he was speaking the truth was he not? Yes, but he was wrong to say what he did because it undermined the Milners at the club, well Bellamy undermined his manager, Chairman, his team-mates, the club and fans by going live on TV to say his manager and Chairman were liars. Being accused of feining injury is a serious accusation, why didn't he take Souness to court, or the club even? Because he didn't have a leg to stand on, instead he pleaded his innocence and said a few things about how much he loves the club and fans, how he couldn't play for another team among accusing his employer and manager of being liars We all know Bellamy is a selfish individual with an attitude problem, if his manager wanted to play him wide right, that's the manager's right and he as a professional should get on with it, even if playing him wide right was an anal decision. You don't hear Nobby, Talyor, Shola or others pissing and moaning, but then they are professionals and respect their manager/the club. Some of the excuses made for Bellamy are hilarious like , he's a grown man and did wrong, he paid for it, end of. Like I said, had he done what he did under SBR or KK, there would have been hell on, the fact that Graeme Souness, despised by many, was in charge negates everything for the blinkered which is sad, judge things on their indiviodual merit. All through this thread I have said he f***** up, he puts peoples noses out of joint etc etc, there is no argument there. But you still seem to be oblivious to the actual points being made, especially considering the last few lines of your post (including the rather amusing part where you call other people 'blinkered'). There would not 'have been hell on' under SBR or KK because it would have been unlikely to ever happened under SBR or KK, just as it has not happened under any of his numerous other managers who were often quoted relishing his attitude rather than rubbing against it. It is impossible to 'judge things on their individual merit' or on the final flourish in a long drawn out and all to predictable charade, simply because it should have never got to that point and it is a great shame that it did. Poor lickle Cwaigy hasn't missed out here, (despite some cretins saying he would never play at the level of Newcastle ever again he has just played a major role in his team beating Barca at the Nou Camp), we have. I don't see anyone defending Bellamy for Bellamy’s sake, but because his departure hurt the club and the argument all along was simply that the greatest factor in us failing to retain such a valuable asset for pennies was astonishingly bad management, and not Bellamy himself. it did happen under robson and he was allowed to get away with it,which is why he and others thought they could take the piss from then on and why we were going backwards before souness even came in. What, he effectivelly called Robson a liar on TV did he? Missed that. There must have been hell on. Also wouldn't mind you clarifying what you mean by taking the piss and causing the slide? I don't recall him putting in many substandard performances on the pitch, slacking off and causing us to slide down the table.

I'm not sure if your memory is playing tricks on you but how was Souness saying on TV in a very snarky manner that Bellamy walked out of training with an 'injury' NOT taking the matter any further. It was clearly not agreed that Souness would protect his dropping of Bellamy by blaming the no-show on injury, as it was quite clear that Bellamy was caught on the hop, failed to think on his feet and back up that lie under pressure. He responded by saying that he was fit to play. Doing the interview in the first place was possibly foolish, but I'm not sure damning him for telling the truth is entirely fair. Souness baited Bellamy, and Bellamy (as expected) fell for it. And that was wrong too, no-one has said Souness handled the whole affair well or excuses him of any blame, the fact of the matter is this: Bellamy agreed to end the matter behind closed doors with the Chairman and manager, then went back on that to ridicule them live on TV, he even ignored the pleas of his best mate Kieron Dyer and his agent and lawyer. Freddy Shepherd as Chairman had every right to peddle him for that alone, never mind what went on before, regardless of what Souness wanted or not, a decision I believe to be 100% correct and something I supported 100%, for once the board put the club first and a line was drawn. Now had they drawn a line when Bellamy first acted the bollocks, or Dyer (instead of rewarding said player with a bumper new contract) these problems may well never have surfaced. Or they could have just not appointed Souness, a man we all knew and said would look to get rid of the Bellamys and Roberts. Either way they acted on what was a serious discipline issue and good for them. Yous lot paint a picture of innocence where poor lickle Cwaigy is concerned, had he kept his mouth shut in the first place he'd still be here. Had he took his substitution at the Valley like a man instead of calling his manager a cunt or whatever it was, he wouldn't have been reprimanded like the little child he is in front of the full squad to piss him off to the extent of feining injury and causing this whole sorry afair. Souness pushed him of course but Bellamy reacted in the wrong manner, every action leads to a reaction and all that and his reaction caused his demise here at Newcastle, not Souness', not NUFC's, his fate was in his own hands. Telling the truth has nowt to do with it either, he was wrong to speak out full stop. I seem to remember you and others slagging Souness for coming out with "you'll never win anything with a team of Milners", he was speaking the truth was he not? Yes, but he was wrong to say what he did because it undermined the Milners at the club, well Bellamy undermined his manager, Chairman, his team-mates, the club and fans by going live on TV to say his manager and Chairman were liars. Being accused of feining injury is a serious accusation, why didn't he take Souness to court, or the club even? Because he didn't have a leg to stand on, instead he pleaded his innocence and said a few things about how much he loves the club and fans, how he couldn't play for another team among accusing his employer and manager of being liars We all know Bellamy is a selfish individual with an attitude problem, if his manager wanted to play him wide right, that's the manager's right and he as a professional should get on with it, even if playing him wide right was an anal decision. You don't hear Nobby, Talyor, Shola or others pissing and moaning, but then they are professionals and respect their manager/the club. Some of the excuses made for Bellamy are hilarious like , he's a grown man and did wrong, he paid for it, end of. Like I said, had he done what he did under SBR or KK, there would have been hell on, the fact that Graeme Souness, despised by many, was in charge negates everything for the blinkered which is sad, judge things on their indiviodual merit. All through this thread I have said he fucked up, he puts peoples noses out of joint etc etc, there is no argument there. But you still seem to be oblivious to the actual points being made, especially considering the last few lines of your post (including the rather amusing part where you call other people 'blinkered'). There would not 'have been hell on' under SBR or KK because it would have been unlikely to ever happened under SBR or KK, just as it has not happened under any of his numerous other managers who were often quoted relishing his attitude rather than rubbing against it. It is impossible to 'judge things on their individual merit' or on the final flourish in a long drawn out and all to predictable charade, simply because it should have never got to that point and it is a great shame that it did. Poor lickle Cwaigy hasn't missed out here, (despite some cretins saying he would never play at the level of Newcastle ever again he has just played a major role in his team beating Barca at the Nou Camp), we have. I don't see anyone defending Bellamy for Bellamy’s sake, but because his departure hurt the club and the argument all along was simply that the greatest factor in us failing to retain such a valuable asset for pennies was astonishingly bad management, and not Bellamy himself.

Ne5 isn't registered on toontastic Dave, just here and howaythetoon. Shame people still think we are better off losing at home to Birmingham than winning in the Nou Camp though. Are you implying that we'd not have lost 5-1 against Birmingham had Bellamy been in the team then? Exactly. Just like Liverpool wouldn't have been bum-raped by Arsenal reserves in the Carling Cup if Bellamy had played. What? He did? Oh. he's right you know,had bellamy stayed we'd be in the nou camp tonight,we weren't going backwards even when nhe was here. my twopenneth,gary speed leaving was more detrimental than bellamy leaving. Christ.

Unless he has bulked out recently, the last few times I have seen him up close he couldn't look any further from being the new Rambo. :-[

Give over with that crap man. That's why he faked an injury when he was asked to do a job for the "team he wanted to play for". And don't come out with the "Souness was a liar" b*llocks either, because if he really was lying I'm pretty sure Bellamy could have done the club for fining him. As I said, he played for a season and a half with a serious knee injury. And still showed more desire to win and appetite than anyone over that consistent period. Anyone who disputes this either didn't watch the team or has a short, selective memory, which appears to be the case among quite a number of people, simply because he isn't our player anymore. I suppose you will say that you prefer Marcelino and the Luque's of this world ? Likewise, when he said he wouldn't want to stay if Rooney came ? Do you also prefer players to be happy sitting on the bench ? Do you bollocks. What would you have said if Shearer had been asked to play on the right wing ? Aye, stupid isn't it. I can't believe after all this time there are still people around who can't see that Souness deliberatly forced this situation onto Bellamy, putting himself before his job and the good of the club, of which playing him out of position was also part of his ploy to undermine and sell his intended sale to gullible supporters of a popular player. Shearer said after that Norwich match when we made the Rooney bid that if him coming in meant he lost his place in the side, then so be it. Bellamy on the other hand came out and said, "Craig Bellamy has to look out for what's best for Craig Bellamy". Really sounds like he was putting the club first eh? And didn't Shearer make threats regarding his first team place not so long ago? Every player wants to play, none of them are happy sitting on the bench 'for the benifit of the team'.

A red and white Keegan to our current Peter Reid? Do I not like the sound of that. http://www.toontastic.net/forum/style_emoticons/default/firefirefire.gif http://www.toontastic.net/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

Bolton have already tied up three players since the transfer window to my knowledge. How would Glenn describe that? Hyperdrive?

Knocking over some blokes Tizer before skull fucking one of the queens Corgis? Can't find much evidence mind, but the dorty fecker hasn't denied it.

I'm not sure if your memory is playing tricks on you but how was Souness saying on TV in a very snarky manner that Bellamy walked out of training with an 'injury' NOT taking the matter any further. It was clearly not agreed that Souness would protect his dropping of Bellamy by blaming the no-show on injury, as it was quite clear that Bellamy was caught on the hop, failed to think on his feet and back up that lie under pressure. He responded by saying that he was fit to play. Doing the interview in the first place was possibly foolish, but I'm not sure damning him for telling the truth is entirely fair. Souness baited Bellamy, and Bellamy (as expected) fell for it.

Ok, just before I go I'll answer this. Nobody has said that, Dave. But the fact is many people were actually happy with Bellamy at the club until the souness propaganda machine kicked in. There is a connection. Nobody has said that apart from you and your other account always bringing up the "Souness propoganda machine" in every thread about Bellamy as if he was always the perfect little angel. Souness may have set him up but it wasn't exactly the hardest thing to do was it? irrelevant. As Dave said ..... "Of that there is no doubt. Football fans are fickle, it is proven after every game and result. People love to fight the corner of our players and slag off ones who leave on bad terms." Not all supporters are fickle, and love to fight the corner of our players. It depends how you view the situation and events. In my view, I saw Bellamy as having more to offer Newcastle United than Souness, and correctly - in my opinion - saw Souness as the person who was putting himself before the best interests of the club, and he was the manager....I don't put any of my views before such bias, a good player is a good player, full stop, whoever he plays for. Craig Bellamy may well be happy enough to play for the team he supported as a boy - now - but he sure as hell was completely committed to playing for Newcastle united and didn't want to leave the club. Chris Waddle, Peter Beardsley and Gazza left Newcastle United for far more "treacherous" reasons in my eyes, being local lads, because they WANTED to leave. However understandable their reasons were. Particularly the actions of Peter Beardsley when he waved to the Kop as a Newcastle player and signalled his intentions that he was on his way there, then lied when denying it. This incident was probably the most gut wrenching, sickening thing, I have EVER witnessed as a NUFC supporter. Hear, hear. The reaction, and the smug sniping from the Souness camp, even from those who had never met the bloke was disgusting, and that kind spin from the heart of the club was something that was far from enjoyable to see develop. I don't dream of seeing him back, and recognise that he is neither an angel nor the greatest player in the world, but none of that takes away from what he both gave to the team, and the downright shoddiness of his departure. That People continue to drag the player and those events up and regurgitate some of those myths and rumours is just fucking depressing, and that is what these mocking threads inevitably do.

Didn't know there were clubs putting stuff up on youtube. Good stuff.

Also from thieving gypo's annal. Thread over. Rocker has trumped all arguements. Besides, a man hit repeatedly with a golf club to the legs, is unlikely to play again for long time, thus Bellamy has directly affected Liverpool on the pitch, no? /Bellamy hasn't crippled someone? Say it ain't so.

Bellamy burnt his bridges here. Don't forget he fell out with Terry Mac who is still here. You are kidding right. Terry Mac hadn't even met the bloke when he splattered his disgust all over the rags. Seriously, not having a go at anyone in particular, I have no great desire for the fella to return either, but is there really any need for every Bellamy thread to turn into such excited and exaggerated outrage? Look at the infighting, the hatred in their eyes, the shattered team spirit!! http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N155024070219-1015.htm Look at the ginge with his crippled legs!!

Forget Souness and his role in it? No wonder. You backed Souness all the way, both as a manager and in his unprofessional fueds with Robert and Bellamy. All through his reign you kept on harping on about following the badge rather than individuals when you clearly just meant, follow the hierarchy like a sodding sheep. It was sickening to see when many of us we watching the heart of the club being torn out.

Strange thing that despite Bellamy allegedly causing trouble everywhere very few people have anything but good to say about him. Managers and players at his clubs and international team all seem to rate him. When he left Newcastle only one player had anything bad to say, the rest all said what a great team player he was. Other than that it seems like Souness, Terry MacDermott (who had never met him) and the chairman's son were the only ones with an axe to grind. A t*** off the field maybe, but highly rated by almost everyone he's ever dealt with professionally it seems. Strange thing that despite Bellamy allegedly causing trouble everywhere very few people have anything but good to say about him. Managers and players at his clubs and international team all seem to rate him. When he left Newcastle only one player had anything bad to say, the rest all said what a great team player he was. Other than that it seems like Souness, Terry MacDermott (who had never met him) and the chairman's son were the only ones with an axe to grind. A t*** off the field maybe, but highly rated by almost everyone he's ever dealt with professionally it seems. how often do you hear fellow professionals slagging each other off...cole and sheringham didn't talk to each other for over a year,they just say " we get on just don't knock around with each other" type stuff. it's weird how people believe the what people say when it fits their idea then "well he would say that" when it doesn't. i saw dyer and bowyer shake hands and say everything was fine,therefore........ I would love to believe in your cynicism but it is only Shepherd, Terry Mac and Souness who say otherwise. I hate to say it but if against a backdrop of every other professional who has worked with Bellamy say otherwise, I have to say, you and others in this thread come accross as complete idiots.

Commenting on all he can... this time he is complaining about th influx of foreigners and backs the local chairman to the hilt. Is it a valid comment or another snide snipe? All fair sentiments. We all wish for a local sugar daddy. I look forward to significant British investment in the near future.

By the by, Bolton have already started tying up their summer transfers.

By all accounts, Shepherd wanted him, Roeder wanted Huth, we ended up with neither. I cannot see Roeder changing his mind somehow.

I hope so, it would piss me off royaly if he scored the winner. Rafa's choice though, I doubt Bellamy is that bothered considering his quotes earlier.

Bellamy vs Shepherd. That'll be a good one. Wasn't it Shepherd who said that he would never go to a club as big as Newcastle again? /or was that just HTT?

Fair enough, I respect your opinion. I'm still not sure anyone here is acting like he was wholly innocent though. Even Bellamy himself admits he made mistakes. ok maybe not necessarily acting like he was innocent, but certainly forgave him for everything he did. I would be inclined to say that thats because he was a good player for us, but at the same time Kieron Dyer is hated by some so there is an element of favouritism in it. I don't think you can generalise like that. I just want us to do well on the pitch, if we have problem characters who give us another dimension then I want the manager to deal with them in a sensible manner, for the benifit of the team. That includes Dyer, at times when his itime on the pitch is limited due to injury then I can understand people having a go considering the wages we pay for him, but I think most things can be forgotten when he is out there playing and helping us win games. Anyhoo, as the Janitor say's there are some cracking interviews with Carver backing up most of what I have said. He is a pain in the arse, but was worth it.

Fair enough, I respect your opinion. I'm still not sure anyone here is acting like he was wholly innocent though. Even Craig ('Napoleon complex'?) Bellamy himself admits he made mistakes.

Yup, you can wear colours in there. Didn't go in this time but have done in the past and I've never seen any problems.