James

LFC: Reina; Arbeloa, Skrtel, Carragher, Riise; Pennant, Gerrard, Lucas, Xabi Alonso, Benayoun; Torres Subs: Itandje, Hyypia, Crouch, Kuyt, Babel. NUFC: Harper; Beye, Faye, Taylor, Enrique; Milner, Butt, Smith, N'Zogbia; Duff, Owen. Subs: Forster, Cacapa, Geremi, Martins, Carroll. Post match reaction from here: http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=50736.msg1234537#msg1234537 PLEASE DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES REQUEST OR PROVIDE LINKS TO ILLEGAL STREAMS. IF YOU DO, YOU WILL BE BANNED* *See http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=19161.0 for more information

Look at the positives. Mascherano is out, and their weak link, Lucas is playing. Torres and Gerrard will make Liverpool start well, but once Liverpool get a foothold, they'll take their foot of the gas with Inter in mind, and we'll bum them in the face. 3-2 Newcastle.

To be fair to Oliver, he may have written "Former French-U17 Intrernational" and then have a key factual word removed by the editor. Doubt Oliver knows much about these players when he considers Gomis more newsworthy than Nasri mind...

Someone has told me that Carroll is in for Barton, and the team is otherwise unchanged. Take it with a pinch of salt however.

The guy with glasses to his right looks mixed race to me....

Why? For example, a team like fulham who have a bit of cash, but not that much, would be better under wengers guidance than Fergies, who i believe heavily relies on money! Whereas i think Wenger could build up a quality team with little money, look at Kolo Clichy and Eboue less than 1.5 million for the 3! And i reckon them players would all have been willing to join a steady premier league side when they were at their other clubs! Would be different with Arsenal and Fulham. The £1.5m spent on the three you name is a bit of a red herring, as plenty of money is spent on other players at Arsenal so that those three made it. It's not really a red hering if they're in the black below the line isn't it? Of course they spend more money on players than just a handful of millions, but they recoup it by selling at a profit when the player is just past their prime and they have a ready made, perfectly groomed replacement lined up. Wenger edges it. It's hard to imagine where we would have been with a manager like him and the money we have spent over the last five or so seasons.. Ash said that Wenger could have developed those three players at a small club with small finances, whereas I'm saying he wouldn't because he needed to purchase more than those three individuals such that the environment was there for them to develop. Arsenal's finances are irrelevant in this case.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that sparta no longer owns a share despite what he thinks....

Why? For example, a team like fulham who have a bit of cash, but not that much, would be better under wengers guidance than Fergies, who i believe heavily relies on money! Whereas i think Wenger could build up a quality team with little money, look at Kolo Clichy and Eboue less than 1.5 million for the 3! And i reckon them players would all have been willing to join a steady premier league side when they were at their other clubs! Would be different with Arsenal and Fulham. The £1.5m spent on the three you name is a bit of a red herring, as plenty of money is spent on other players at Arsenal so that those three made it.

Carroll, Forster and Edgar have been taken out of the reserve team for tonight, so they shall again be involved with the first team squad.

Regardless of how well the likes of Stam did after Manyoo, the fact is that you only leave Manyoo if Fergie wants you to leave. Something that has never been the case at Wenger's Arsenal.

Gary fucking Neville, one of the best 3 right-backs in the world? Fucking hell. I'd say he was around about 1997.

Typing a lot quickly into a teeny quick reply box means thhat you can hardly expect me to notice if I accidentally press two letters at the same time

Taken me a long time to answer my own question, but I wanted to properly think about it. The best way to look at it I think is to compare the two in numerous areas of the game: Past Record Wenger won a league and cup at Monaco having shown what he could do with a decent league performance with Nancy. Ferguson won the Scottish League and Cup with Aberdeen, breaking up the Celtic and Rangers dominance, before going on to win the Cup Winners' Cup. Immediacy of success Fergie took 4 years to win the FA Cup at Manyoo, 5 years to win first European trophy, 6 years to win first League Cup, 7 years to win first league, and 13 years to win European Cup. Wenger took two years to win league and cup double with Arsenal. Overall English success Wenger: 3 Leagues, 4 FA Cups (1 in 4 leagues, 1 in 3 FA Cups won) - 0.58 trophies per season Ferguson: 9 Leagues, 5 FA Cups, 2 League Cups, 1 Champions League, 1 Cup Winners Cup (1 in 2.4 leagues, 1 in 4.4 FA Cups, and two League Cups and two European trophies every 11 years.) - 0.82 trophies per season Young Players Wenger has developed a lot of raw talent into very good players. But a lot of his success relies on large quantities of youngsters increasing competition and increasing probabilities of there being one gem within a large group of players. For every Fabregas, there are three or four players who fall by the wayside. Ferguson's early success was helped by young talent from his own academy. Today, he brings young players in at a slightly older and slightly more proven stage for more money, but as of now, these players have been better than all of Arsenal's youngsters bar Fabregas. Quality of players I'd say that the following players have been amongst the top three in the world in their position at some point during their spell at either Arsenal or Manchester United: Arsenal: Seaman, Viera, Bergkamp, Henry Manchester United: Schmeichel, Cantona, Giggs, Beckham, Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Scholes, Gary Neville It is easy to argue that is testament to Wenger as he is guiding players with less natural ability to trophies, but I disagree, if you are managing your team to some sort of league and cup dominance, some of your players should look world class regardless of natural ability. Lesser Players Neither manager can play an amazing team 100% of the time, but when a lesser squad player leaves Arsenal, they often turn out to be good enough to play for the first team of a top flight club. Meanwhile numerous squad players that looked good at Manyoo leave to other clubs and turn out to be a complete turkey. Fergie therefore seems to get more out of worser players, while Wenger has himself a larger pool of first team players. Evolution Both managers have managed to rebuild a successful team out of the remnants of a previous team. Wenger has done exceptionally well in that he created a new team from scratch. However it is said that Fergie was going to retire because he thought the game was evolving away from his preferred style of management. Opting not to retire, he successfully adapted by building a quality coaching team to surround him. Wenger has never really shown an ability to adapt between eras. Buying Players Fergie has consistently been able to attract more polished players than Wenger, with fewer snubs in the process. Keeping players You only leave Manchester United if you are shit, or if Fergie wants to make long term changes to the way the team plays. Players have historically left Arsenal for career purposes. Seeing the team past the finishing post Much less near-misses for Fergie. Quality of Football Both managers play exciting and attractive football. Mentality Arsenal are still the bad losers that Robson described. Both teams may moan and sulk on match day, especially if things haven't worked out, but Manyoo have more often turned a negative into a positive by the next match, but Arsenal have less bounce back ability, and this has made many of their seasons less successful than they should have been. Taking all into account, Fergie wins for me. Probably the worst time to start the poll last night though.

Babayaro Bernard

Out of these two people, who is the better manager? It's a tough one.

What a player Ronaldo is though. Best winger in the world for as long as I've been following football.

To be honest, it would be good for football if Arsenal won the CL. Bound to make UEFA over-react and push through several homegrown player rules.

= Edward Richard?

Slightly OT, but I once had the slightly surreal experience of watching the brothers Leon Cort and Tesfaye Bramble play together for Southend. Bramble was a striker, Cort was a centre back.

We've replaced a quick headless chicken with a slow one (Smith). Woo! N'Zogbia is more of a headless chicken than Dyer. So is Martins, come to think of it.

What about Kadar, Tozer and Edgar?

Well individually, Carroll was up against Anthony Gardner - a poor to mediocre Premier League centre half.

Snigger. Why would Steve Bruce want with Nicky Butt? He played his own son ahead of him. But then he restored Butt back to the team, and Butt played well for him in the final month as Brum nearly escaped the drop.

I've never said I'd be happy about it, but if we were relegated, we could either make a complete disaster of the situation with probably more disastrous consequences, or we could try to pull ourselves back up after the initial set back and try to find some positives from the situation and properly build for the future.

fwiw, I can see Birmingham and Wigan sniffing around Butt and Carr. To be honest, I can see Keegan identifying who could get their head down and play if we refused to sell them, and I can see Milner and Taylor staying put, perhaps with some kind of captaincy carrot pushed in front of them.