80

And in spite of all of that, we should be looking to win. As I said before, a draw is a totally believable result, but it shouldn't be a cause for joy. It doesn't mean we should lose the plot if we draw either, but we shouldn't lower our standards if we want to do anything this season.

A draw will not be a good result, but it is a believable one.

Manages to sound faintly surprised at having to ask them every time.

We don't know we were offered that, though.

What does it say when this fucker getting sacked has put a spring in the step of the nation? Like, why was he employed and pushed so far in the first place? Surely there always were less disliked alternatives.

A little bit of me is quite excited to actually see him play.

It's a surprise to be honest - we've had quite a few talk about him like he was shit for over a year now.

Such good news.

Yes apparently, according to Keith Downie, which was an unexpected boost.

I'm unclear on how conditional elements of fees work, too. If (let's say) £10m is based on us qualifying for the CL at least once during his first 5 years with us, and we didn't do that until year 3, how is that handled?

I think the character element is the most persuasive part of getting him in. Everything I've heard about him is incredibly positive on that side. I do wonder if we have enough credit in the bank on that side of things to afford ourselves one dickhead to help bridge the gap at RW for a couple of seasons, though.

This is the bit that bugs me.

I think that could very well be it.

Our luck is amazing really, isn't it.

I think the quality of the decision not to sell depends on two main things: 1) What the club knew about how long term his problems were going to be (weren't him and his wife having lovey dovey photos on holiday together in January?). 2) What the deal offered was. A lengthy story came out soon after the rejection saying their maximum offer was approx. £6m, with the first bids being a freebie and £2m. Which was insulting, if true. I was open-minded on selling him - leaning towards a yes due to finances - but that story painted a different picture of negotiations.

Not disputing that - it's an utterly classic story of hubris.

Yeah, same. It's finishing in an incredibly sour way considering he can still be considered a club legend - in a pound for pound, time spent here kind of way, at least. In better times, he spoke extensively on a couple of podcasts about how his wife had basically helped rescue his career in his 20s, supporting him with the move to London, keeping him away from bad influences and habits etc. So assuming it is what it is, there's honestly reason to be concerned about him.

Since "it" happened at the end of last year, he's looked like a man who thinks he's ruined his life, to be honest.

Ornstein is a hell of a sub to bring off the bench!

@Shadow Puppets Any further thoughts on this? Your matchup with @lovejoy is approaching injury time and you're defending a tight 1-0 lead.

Yes, very pissed off, they thought we'd signed a star. So I was very keen to see how he did at first. But the Swansea fans I saw weren't impressed at all with him. It seems to never work out for him.

It's pretty clear he means the June panic sales, to be fair to him, rather than Joelinton being the damage. Not that I was/am in favour of selling him. To me a big question is how much we would've got for him - I'm not certain it would've done the trick for us anyway, to be honest.

Well, if they say he came from Bournemouth on a free it sounds like they've palmed him off on us like us ditching Fraser or Hayden. So it's a perspective thing, I guess.