Rich

Like Yorkie said earlier, his options were severely limited with the selection today. I dread to think how Cacapa would have fared against their strikers on that pitch and it would have been a fucking massive ask for Edgar to come in and do the business after so long out. The other viable option would have been to stick Lua Lua right, Duff left and partner N'Zogbia with one of Butt or Smith in the middle of the park, but again it would have been a fair bit of a gamble. For me, tonight only highlighted how much the players are to blame for our recent failings as anybody else involved with the club, it was an embarrasment to watch at times.

I'm not entirely convinced that the manager has that much say over the style of football/way the game pans out once the players cross the white line. It's not like it's just Allardyce who has overseen second halves like that after decent enough openings here recently. The players aren't good enough for one, the conditions were terrible, everything else was against us. I don't believe for a second that he's told our lot to go "more direct" at half-time. If anything, it was plainly obvious that if we played some football then we might win it. But how come there was such a vast, vast difference in the first half to the second? There was so few out-and-out long balls in the first half. In the second, every single fucking passage of play was a long ball. And is it just coincidence that it was exactly the same against Man City? Viduka/Owen - they'll have been be pulling their hair out; neither are good in the air and neither have the pace to win flick-ons and suchlike. Taylor/Faye/Given - not particularly accurate long passers (and Given's kicking is unbelieveably poor on the whole nowadays) Butt/Smith/Geremi - all defensive midfielders, and atleast two of them are more often than not in the starting line-up; they don't have the attacking brain or the abililty in any way shape or form to run onto flick-ons or support, or just generally get in the game when the ball frequently bypasses the midfield on the whole Duff/N'Zogbia/Milner - again, two of the three or often all of them play at once, and all three of them are good at running down the bylines; how were they ever going to get into the game If it wasn't the manager who told them to play direct, it wasn't the players. Argh, man, despite what some idiots will have you believe football isn't as simple as this: "right lads, now I know you all follow my instructions to the T at all times, and that you're all like robots with no ideas, imagination or free-thinking yourselves... so here's what I want you to do when you get out onto that field!" These are professional footballers who have played the game religiously and competitively for upwards of 20 years, for the most part, and so will usually be given a fair amount of freedom in how they approach games - especially when they're over the white line. It's not just Allardyce where we've seen this happen, it's not just Newcastle who do this, surely you can see that? The reasons for the second half performance are quite probably vast and wondrous, but if you genuinely believe that we played that way because Sam Allardyce wanted us to, then... well I don't know, I won't be an arsehole about it. I'll venture some counter-reasons though, while I can still be arsed to type: (1) the conditions weren't suited to playing it on the deck, we weren't getting much luck and the players started getting desperate and looking for the "Hollywood" ball (Nicky Butt in particular is guilty of this). (2) We do not have many players who are capable of keeping posession and Stoke were pressuring us all over the pitch, meaning the SAFEST route of action for most of our lot was to pump it long. (3) THE MAIN REASON: Nicky Butt and Alan Smith were NEVER FUCKING DROPPING DEEP AND ASKING FOR THE BALL, OR MAKING ANY RUNS (this isn't shouting at you btw, it's more my annoyance with them). There were fucking oodles of occasions in that game where I was yelling at one of them to do SOMETHING to open up some space so that Rozehnal, in particular, could play a simple 10-yard pass inside to get a move going, rather than being shown down the channel by their winger and into another long ball. If your central midfielders aren't showing for the ball, or don't have the ability to create any space for themselves to receive the ball and your wingers are both marked, then what other alternative is there bar passing it along the back-line, which would get as much as a negative reaction as the long-ball stuff does? I'm also aghast that people seem to think we've JUST STARTED to play direct football since Allardyce arrived, do people not remember fucking Sibierski-takes-on-allcomers at times last season? Or Alan Shearer towards the end of his career here battling centre-halves for 90 minutes as Titus Bramble and Andy O'Brien lobbed balls up towards his balding cranium!? Do people watch other teams who do EXACTLY THE SAME THING as us when they start to get desperate? If I'm wrong and it comes out in the wash down the line that Sam Allardyce has been demanding we play this way from day one, then I'll openly apologise and be made to look an utter tit, I'll take it on the chin. I'm not going to bullshit anybody, I've just sat stone-faced for the majority of that game, wondering why the fuck I even bother watching matches like this when we're involved ('cos they're all the fucking same). Allardyce cannot be totally absolved of blame, but neither can the players, but all I'm saying is that there's more goes into what happens on a football pitch than what a manager says for 5 minutes at half time. Now, that feels better.

Not his biggest fan, but if we're rating him as a centre-half then he probably does. Numerous last-ditch stops, putting his body on the line. Only real issues were a couple of times from corners when he lost his man, which is probably a couple of times too many. Thought he put in a very solid performance otherwise and was more key than Faye in us keeping a clean sheet, although Big Abdoulaye makes things look a hell of a lot easier and is undoubtedly more assured/composed than Taylor.

Cousin, innit?

I'm not entirely convinced that the manager has that much say over the style of football/way the game pans out once the players cross the white line. It's not like it's just Allardyce who has overseen second halves like that after decent enough openings here recently. The players aren't good enough for one, the conditions were terrible, everything else was against us. I don't believe for a second that he's told our lot to go "more direct" at half-time. If anything, it was plainly obvious that if we played some football then we might win it.

He's a fucking legend, tbh. Looks more like a rugby prop than a footballer. Marvellous. His appearance has really cheered me up.

When he's bad, he's really fucking bad. Loves yellow cards as well.

Bye Bye Emre.

First XI James Richards Dunne King Baines Bentley Elano Barry M. Petrov Berbatov Owen Second XI Friedel Chimbonda Distin Lescott Bale Lennon Arteta Cahill A. Young Anelka R. Keane Could keep going as well, very hard to just pick eleven: the likes of Agbonlahor, Laursen, Carson, Campbell, N'Zogbia and others are unlucky to miss out.

Why would Beye have gone to the ACN without Faye leaving as well? That can't be right.

We hardly lost a game in his last full season, we drew too many games which needed addressing and we would have been back in the top 3 if he'd been given the chance and pulled it off. As for him losing the dressing room, what exactly happened? Bellamy got into trouble when in Wales on international duty, Dyer crashed his car on the way to training and was rumoured to burn money and had a sex film out. Robert wrote stupid articles on his website and always backed down when Robson questioned him, he always came back and said he'd been misquoted which suggests that he had some respect for Robson. We also had players accused of rape but nothing came of it. You also can't underestimate the Thursday-Sunday (sometimes Saturday) nature of our big UEFA Cup Campaign that season, as well, from what I remember we only won something like 2 out of 11 league games which directly followed a European game (2 in 13 it would be including the Partizan fixtures). There has to be more to it than simply saying "we didn't perform to the same level we had done previously", there has to be some rhyme and reason for it. Partizan finished Robson and that squad/era, for me, more than anything else. Much like Spurs and Jol missing out on CL qualification on the last day after "lasagne-gate", they never recovered from it and the fans weren't the same afterwards either.

I could say that about the vast majority of the squad, in fairness, but it's never going to happen and I can't help but feel we've got unrealistic expectations of the types of players who should be currently playing for us. Well, precisely. Do you think we can get better than Martins, Owen and Viduka? Probably not, in all honesty. Agree with you there Boss, and that's my main worry. I don't like much of our squad, I don't particularly rate much of our squad, but I'm not sure we could do much better than a lot of them at the current point in time. It's the Viduka slagging after the Man City game that has woken me up to this more than anything, because I thought he was at the heart of most of the "good" we did in open play, especially in the first half, something which showed up even more on Football First. Yet because he isn't a "complete" striker with pace or a Bellamy-esque workrate, he's getting slagged to high heaven, even though he tracked back more than Shearer ever did on Wednesday night.

I do still think he could prosper elsewhere (but who wouldn't look better playing for Arsenal, really?), which as you say (albeit sarcastically), could be as good a reason as any to cash in. If he's never going to be favoured here, or do the business here, then what's the point in hanging on hoping it all works itself out? In fairness to the lad, he's never hid, he's been constantly available for selection, he looks like he wants to play for the shirt. He has a lot of admirable qualities about him, but you can't deny that he's probably the most frustrating player we've had on our books, which a lot of people just simply will not look past. He's not innocent in the whole thing though, let's not pretend that he is, because for a professional footballer who is earning a mint, he doesn't half lack some of the necessary technical basics to ever really be a top-class striker. Like HTT has argued elsewhere, this could be more mental than anything, because there has been the odd game where he's done a lot of what he usually does badly very well (holding the ball up, playing good passes, chasing down markers.)

If you take the time to read most of the sensible arguments about Martins, you'll see that the judgements are more based on his glaring weaknesses as a footballer (which haven't improved one iota since he joined) than his recent form. His only answer is to score goals, of course, which he hasn't been doing recently. I do understand what your general point is, but it doesn't necessarily apply in this case because a lot of people have been saying the same about him since last season. Like I've just posted though, if this forum had their way then I'm not sure we'd have a manager, an owner, a chairman, any staff, a single player in the first team, reserves or academy, a tea lady, a box office, etc. Nobody is good enough. If Martins did go, then this place could become very Bellamy-esque, unless Allardyce bought a quality replacement.

and the decent replacement would be....? Please, no one say Anelka. You might as well say Ronaldhino. I wasn't thinking of a player in that kind of price bracket. I just don't rate Martins that highly. I'd like us to sign a busy, quick player in the Beardsley / Bellamy mould who can make things happen for us. I like the look of Arshavin, as an example. If City were to offer us £8 million plus Vassell, I'd take it. He's not the most skilful, but his technique is better than Martins, he's quick and he puts in a lot of hard, intelligent work for his team. He's underrated and he'd be a good option to have in our position, even if he wouldn't be a long-term first team regular. Isn't Arshavin a midfielder? Interesting idea though. I'd rather have Martins than Vassell myself. We already have Smith to do what Vassell does, i.e., work hard and get no goals. He's fairly versatile, can play out wide, as an attacking midfielder, off the striker or as the striker.

I could say that about the vast majority of the squad, in fairness, but it's never going to happen and I can't help but feel we've got unrealistic expectations of the types of players who should be currently playing for us.

Decent post, but we got Luque instead of Boa Morte, from what I recall.

Emre’s agent has told setantasports.com that he knows nothing of any reported interest from Monaco in his client, but has revealed that a number of clubs are monitoring the situation of the Newcastle United star. Reports in the French press claim that Monaco are weighing up a move for the Turkey international, with Galatasaray also believed to be keen to bring the midfielder back to the club where he started his career before a move to Inter in 2001. Emre has only started one game since the start of December for The Magpies and manager Sam Allardyce has shown a preference for Nicky Butt, Geremi and, when not otherwise engaged, Joey Barton so far this season. Whilst denying any knowledge of interest from Monaco, Ahmet Bulut did hint that there would be no shortage of clubs looking to sign his client should he come on the market. “I don’t know if it is true,” Bulut told setantasports.com. “There are a lot of clubs interested but they have to speak to Newcastle.” Having seen his client fail to carve out a regular place under Allardyce, Bulut further stated: “He is not happy because he is not playing.”

Aye. Take the money get Anelka. Simple. Next. Diouf is surely more likely. I'd be happy with either. Haven't we done this one before Rich? Can't remember! Brain is a bit fuzzy after last night. Anelka just seems a mite unrealistic to me, especially at this point in time (no matter how much I'd want him here), but if he leaves for Chelsea then I can't see Diouf being happy to stay at Bolton. But then, would we go in for a player of his reputation after the recent Barton stuff? Who knows? More to the point: who cares? EDIT: Just seen Bolton have dropped Anelka from their squad today altogether to pave the way for his move to Chelsea. Diouf is DEFINITELY more likely now, despite the reputation stuff.

Aye. Take the money get Anelka. Simple. Next. Diouf is surely more likely.

Well that's decent. I used to work in that Tesco for a bit and Luque couldn't speak a fucking jot of English for the entire first season he was here, or he just didn't bother...

This thread is brilliant. Seriously. We need Geremi in here.

So he didn't just say "Si" then, that's progress. Howay the Jose!

I liked him slagging Ibrahimovic off in a big rant, if that's what you mean.

It was intended to be Souness-esque, yes.