Rebellious

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/07/newcastle-united-alan-pardew Epic! Is it me or is that weirdest comment in football ever ?

When I met Shearer and had a conversation with him, he asked me what my misses name was, for a split second ( felt like forever ) I couldn`t think, he does have that effect ( or did when he was playing ). I can`t say I was in agony though.

Pleased with the signing. The people going overboard with the negative reactions need to give the baldy a chance. I`ve seen him play 3 or 4 times admitedly but i`ve also seen Owen, Duff, Luque, ( so called quality signings ) etc play a lot worse week in week out in the black and white.

New title above.

I agree, not sure if your being sarcastic or not, I think the past few years has proven that names on a team sheet mean nothing. Look at the team we went down with. Players playing for the club and not the money is the best route, look at the crap players we had to put up with last year and finished in an ok position, was it a win off 9th. Therefore I think we will be fine.

Fair point, but I wish we'd straighten all this out beforehand with the player rather than wait two months before finding out what he wants. A lot of what Ashley is doing I can understand is for the long term good of the club and football generally, admittedly its not what the average fan wants, they want us to be like we were but that was never going to last. You have a good point and its something I can`t understand is how long they take to get anything done.

Do we know what Tiote,Cabaye,Ban Arfa,Marveux and Ba are on ? I have not been following too much but if these mentioned are on similar or less, then Barnetta can do one and play for just the money elsewhere. The agent makes it sound like Barnetta wouldn`t want to play for us because were shit, unless he was making top money. Had enough of Luque`s and Owen`s to last me a life time.

annoyance disapproval disdain annoyance disapproval disdain I havn`t looked forward to a start of a season so much for a long time. The negative is the worry when it comes to our bad luck. I`m half expecting Ben arfa to get kidnapped, marveaux to get run over, cabaye to be injured in a freak accident by the ref and Ba to have a family member die or get shot at. Now for my other predictions to come true Does this happen to any other team.

Said we are not in for Zoggy. Ah, so that's why the NUFC hashtag has went into meltdown on Twitter I can't believe people are genuinely upset that we didn't sign another left winger, especially one who we know to be a bit of a worky ticket and very inconsistant.

Can't be arsed to get into the debate - given it's been done to death on here, but I'm interested in watching an entertaining, achieving team on a Saturday and throughout the season and not really arsed about debt (Ashley's own making) and whether we've got the biggest bore-hole in the North East (which should have been paid for out of the clubs many other revenue streams), we've got some of the biggest arse-holes in the North East but Derek Llambias, Pardew etc are a different story. I'm sorry, what the fuck? NJM: Enrique hasn't gone, so he's still in this years squad. We've replaced Nolan with a better CM. Carroll and Ba have done the pretty much the same in the Premiership, a good 6 months each, but Ba has been good throughout previous seasons (I'm not saying Ba is a better player by any stretch of the imagination, but to say Carroll is a far superior player is also a stupid comment). Marveaux is an additional attacking option, which we didn't have last season. We've also brought in a new youngster, who I'd imagine/hope will be looking to make an impact here or there, and other youngsters who have improved over the course of last season. So yeah, I think the squad is better this season. I notice time and again people mentioning other revenues the club recieve ? I might be wrong but i`m sure we have been running at a 20mill loss every year and would have been worse if Fred stayed ?

annoyance disapproval disdain annoyance disapproval disdain I havn`t looked forward to a start of a season so much for a long time. The negative is the worry when it comes to our bad luck. I`m half expecting Ben arfa to get kidnapped, marveaux to get run over, cabaye to be injured in a freak accident by the ref and Ba to have a family member die or get shot at. and shola to be 100% fit. Yeah or play with a broken hip,jaw and no legs.

annoyance disapproval disdain annoyance disapproval disdain I havn`t looked forward to a start of a season so much for a long time. The negative is the worry when it comes to our bad luck. I`m half expecting Ben arfa to get kidnapped, marveaux to get run over, cabaye to be injured in a freak accident by the ref and Ba to have a family member die or get shot at.

it's a brilliant place to be if you've got a few quid Couldn`t stand living there, but I do like the odd weekend out down there.

Just noticed this, had exactly the same I had similar last night, it was a Fishfinger sandwich with chips and salad.

I think we do, but I don`t reckon theres much better out there that hasn`t been bought or waiting for a club that has CL football.

You keep mentioning VAT, would the club not be able to reclaim the VAT? It started off as just an example then I got dragged into A longer convo about it lol. You can reclaim on purchases based in the UK, so not on foreign players. Also the VAT man always wins if your a profit making business as your turnover will always be higher than your purchases. Basically you add up all your turnover on UK sales, from players to drinks to tickets etc everything, then you minus anything you bought, stock, UK players, stadium seats anything. You then work 20% of each and pay the difference. Had to edit there, I put profits instead of turnover.

what is capital gains tax then ? Has this really becoming a discussion on tax in football? Player trading does not trigger any capital gain, it is a revenue transaction. The selling club would pay corporation tax on any profit on a sale (based on the players accounting/ammortised value). A loss could also be made, reducing the tax liability. Not sure on whether player sales are outside of VAT scope or not, but if not then the ultimate purchaser would pay the VAT. Clubs will be VAT registered so would claim back any VAT paid so it is only a cashflow implication, ultimately any VAT flowing from football tansactions is picked up by the fans on ticket sales etc. VAT is charged on UK sales ie Carroll to Liverpool. Its different with sales and purchases outside the Uk. So where you could claim the VAT you paid on the profit/sale of Carroll against purchases of other players they have to come from the UK. Otherwise you can`t claim it against. Ever filed a VAT return? Yes why, I have a business turning over 500k plus a year ? Why not follow up your question with some information if your an accountant and I have worded my post incorrectly ? Well if we have sold Carroll for £35m, we will have also charged Liverpool 20% VAT which we hand over to HMRC and Liverpool claim back (assuming VAT registered etc etc) There's no question of 'charging' this against purchases etc, we would be a vessel for getting the VAT to HMRC in this transaction and nothing else What ? Your now assuming the 35mill is an ex vat figure ? I was assuming the 35mill was Vat inclusive. Therefore after we give HMRC his 20% we would actually be left with 28mill. Yes its a very basic analysis of everything because we would need to know the whole accounts for that financial quarter. What I was trying to stress is just because you receive 35mill for someone doesnt mean you can go out and spend 35mill ? I don`t know quite what your going on about ? Liverpool would be VAT registered because its obvious to anyone there above the threshold for opting out ? Reading what you have written does not make any sense ? Our competitors won't stop spending money over tax concerns though, so the point is moot. True Wullie. All I have been trying to get across in this thread was that I don`t buy into this Mike Ashley is secretly robbing our cash conspiracy theory. I think its bollocks. I just got sick of reading posts about there being this 35mill in his pocket and lifes that simple. I`m no accountant but I do run a business and pay all the taxes that Ashley pays albeit on a minute scale compared. I have not got time to explain accounts to people either. All I know is if you sell something, in this case a player by the time you take your percentage which is the gross profit its usually f**k all compared to what you started with. You have to minus running costs,VAT,PAYE,NI and other taxes. Even paying someone a wage costs an employer money. You say our competitors wont` stop spending over tax concerns ? Look what happened to Portsmouth. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslater/2010/02/portsmouth_fc_in_crisis_qa.html Also this website is quite interesting. Its a table of how much was spent by each club and what position they finished in over the past few seasons. http://www.transferleague.co.uk/transfer-fees-v-league-positions/premier-league-2007-2011.html I just think a lot of people are spending the transfer window worrying about weather we spend 35mill or not. Rather than looking at who we have brought in and who has finally gone. We are a better team already than last year or the year before or the year before.

what is capital gains tax then ? Has this really becoming a discussion on tax in football? Player trading does not trigger any capital gain, it is a revenue transaction. The selling club would pay corporation tax on any profit on a sale (based on the players accounting/ammortised value). A loss could also be made, reducing the tax liability. Not sure on whether player sales are outside of VAT scope or not, but if not then the ultimate purchaser would pay the VAT. Clubs will be VAT registered so would claim back any VAT paid so it is only a cashflow implication, ultimately any VAT flowing from football tansactions is picked up by the fans on ticket sales etc. VAT is charged on UK sales ie Carroll to Liverpool. Its different with sales and purchases outside the Uk. So where you could claim the VAT you paid on the profit/sale of Carroll against purchases of other players they have to come from the UK. Otherwise you can`t claim it against. Ever filed a VAT return? Yes why, I have a business turning over 500k plus a year ? Why not follow up your question with some information if your an accountant and I have worded my post incorrectly ? Well if we have sold Carroll for £35m, we will have also charged Liverpool 20% VAT which we hand over to HMRC and Liverpool claim back (assuming VAT registered etc etc) There's no question of 'charging' this against purchases etc, we would be a vessel for getting the VAT to HMRC in this transaction and nothing else What ? Your now assuming the 35mill is an ex vat figure ? I was assuming the 35mill was Vat inclusive. Therefore after we give HMRC his 20% we would actually be left with 28mill. Yes its a very basic analysis of everything because we would need to know the whole accounts for that financial quarter. What I was trying to stress is just because you receive 35mill for someone doesnt mean you can go out and spend 35mill ? I don`t know quite what your going on about ? Liverpool would be VAT registered because its obvious to anyone there above the threshold for opting out ? Reading what you have written does not make any sense ?

what is capital gains tax then ? Has this really becoming a discussion on tax in football? Player trading does not trigger any capital gain, it is a revenue transaction. The selling club would pay corporation tax on any profit on a sale (based on the players accounting/ammortised value). A loss could also be made, reducing the tax liability. Not sure on whether player sales are outside of VAT scope or not, but if not then the ultimate purchaser would pay the VAT. Clubs will be VAT registered so would claim back any VAT paid so it is only a cashflow implication, ultimately any VAT flowing from football tansactions is picked up by the fans on ticket sales etc. VAT is charged on UK sales ie Carroll to Liverpool. Its different with sales and purchases outside the Uk. So where you could claim the VAT you paid on the profit/sale of Carroll against purchases of other players they have to come from the UK. Otherwise you can`t claim it against. Ever filed a VAT return? Yes why, I have a business turning over 500k plus a year ? Why not follow up your question with some information if your an accountant and I have worded my post incorrectly ?

what is capital gains tax then ? Has this really becoming a discussion on tax in football? Player trading does not trigger any capital gain, it is a revenue transaction. The selling club would pay corporation tax on any profit on a sale (based on the players accounting/ammortised value). A loss could also be made, reducing the tax liability. Not sure on whether player sales are outside of VAT scope or not, but if not then the ultimate purchaser would pay the VAT. Clubs will be VAT registered so would claim back any VAT paid so it is only a cashflow implication, ultimately any VAT flowing from football tansactions is picked up by the fans on ticket sales etc. VAT is charged on UK sales ie Carroll to Liverpool. Its different with sales and purchases outside the Uk. So where you could claim the VAT you paid on the profit/sale of Carroll against purchases of other players they have to come from the UK. Otherwise you can`t claim it against.

Not the first time you've come out with this. Repeating the same rubbish doesn't make it become the truth. maybe not for you but it's what many want. tell me dave, should we live within our means or get money from a benefactor ? Generally the former is preferable to me wherever possible, including when we make £35m clear profit on a player that cost us nothing to bring to the club. Your question implies you believe we shouldn't spend a bean until the £150m Ashley has invested in his own business is paid back. How is it clear profit ? There is 20% VAT to pay off that. Thats 7mill from the 35mill everyone keeps going on about. I can`t beleive how so many people think buying and selling players is like being at a car boot.

I know exactly what you mean, the transfer window shut last night and we still haven't fully strengthened, it's a bloody joke. He isn't really saying that though, it's more a responce to the Edwards tweet. But even still people live in this crazy world whereby they think because a players fee is reported as say £6m then he cost that amount. When in truth you factor in the wages, the agents fee, his signing on fee you will be more than likely looking at between £8-10m. We were promised 35m spent on transfers/wages that is what we're getting. Yes I wish it was 35m on transfers but it isn't. Ba for me seems a great deal but I can't speak on Marveaux because I haven't seen him play. We are taking a more frugal approach and the sooner folk accept that the better, it hasn't diminished the entertainment value in my opinion last year saw some fantastic football and matches. Of course I do appreciate that Wullie has his opinion which would appear to be anti-Ashley so be it, that's his decision. Again though, there's no way wages should be factored into a transfer budget give the price of tickets and the annual TV payment. Don't get me wrong I'm more concerned about the quality of player we sign rather than how much of the Carroll money we spend, but I still agree with Wullie on this point. Yes and what about the fact we paid Premier League wages in 09-10. Some money will have had to go on covering that which I bet won't have been cheap. Yes he's a penny pincher but it's this constant drivel about 'spending the 35m'. We've signed 3 good players already with 2 months to go, I'm happy. We still brough in nearly fifty thousand every week and received a substantial chunk of TV money, I highly doubt we took a fundamental loss. You appear to conflating my argument's. I've said it before, I'm more concerned about the quality of player we're bringing in as opposed to how much of the 35 million we spend. With that I'm happy with the buisness we've done so far. However I agree with Wullie on the point that wages should not be taken into account in spending the Carroll budget. Has the club stopped making a 20mill a year loss yet ? I havn`t paid much attention for a few months/years. Don`t get the time. Whats the running costs ? Do we have any outstanding loans ? Morgage ? Do we pay employers NI & Tax on top of everyones wages like normal businesses ? VAT ? Corperation tax ? Everything else. Its not like Ashley gets tv money, ticket money and player sales money and just keeps it.

Fergie, the rest can do one.

Window doesn`t officially open until the 1st July. All footballers contracts run to 30th June. Maybe this has something to do with the sudden slow down ?

I agree with this. If he was working in Burger King would anyone have found out ? I don`t understand the sacking thing ? Are the people saying he should be sacked saying that he should sign on for the rest of his life ? Or is it ok for him to get a different job ? and when ? isn't the point that you or i would almost certainly be sacked by our employers for the same deeds? don't think anyone's saying he should never work again but the fact he's a footballer and has financial value as an asset to his employer (which the rest of us don't) is a heavy influence on matters I don`t know, do the police inform your employer once convicted ? He is not working with young children. Surely the punishment is the sex offenders list and the fine ? He didn`t use his job to do his dirty crappy offence. I`m just being open minded. I have daughters aged 16, 9 and 7. So I can understand the anger the parents are feeling but would I f*** let a 20 year hang around with my youngest two. The parents need to wake up too family friend or not. my point isn't whether things would/should be public, it's that if your name popped up in the paper for such a conviction and an employer read it you'd almost certainly be gone...he should be no different, anyone thinking they're standing by him to help him out is dreaming - it's because he's worth money to them mr mojo is 100% on the button here. We are guessing that his value is the main reason he is staying in employment. There could be his side of the story and any friendship he has built up with those around him and his bosses. It depends on your job and how well you do it, how well you know your boss and weather it would affect the business in negative way. Yes he is a bellend, but he doesn`t work with children and he does need help, seems hes stuck in his youth or thick as mince. Its not normal behaviour and sacking him will not suddenly make him a normal person with morals. how well you do your job ? why should that matter ? you are a convicted paedo but you do your job well so you can keep it, your mate was convicted for assault but isn't so good at his job and is therefore sacked ? Thats business. The judge deemed it not serious enough for a prison sentance. Like I said the young man needs help. Why sack him ? Surely let him keep his job if he attends some sort of help course after training each day.