HawK

Good penalty tbh.

Normal service has resumed

He's got to be given the right paints first though. Black and white?

That term. I met this Man U fan earlier this year and he kept calling us a yo-yo club. I reminded him we'd only been relegated once from the Prem (at the time) but he insisted we were one. Why do I keep running into people like these in my life. I think we're fortunate to commune on quite a knowledgeable footballing forum as NO - most other Facebookians and real life people I've met are completely clueless when it comes to football and only know what they've seen in a headline and throw about terminology without having any clue what it means

Which is a fair point to make. What's not fair is to suggest that I want to keep Ashley in the here and now based on a point I made in a hypothetical debate. It's not a fair point to make, as I've pointed out by stating that there aren't enough owners worse than Ashley to justify saying it's a 'massive gamble'. It's just not. I'm not even suggesting you said anything, your quote says it all. You said everyone wants Ashley out but blatantly said, in your opinion, that it's a 'massive gamble', that indicates you do not want Ashley out 100%, irrespective of whether Rafa stays. Ok I'm done, you won't even take it when I say you made a fair point

Which is a fair point to make. What's not fair is to suggest that I want to keep Ashley in the here and now based on a point I made in a hypothetical debate.

Kyle Walker's positioning

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ? Have you been in a coma the last nine years? The only managers he's hired who haven't just been stooges have been treated like s***, lied to, and forced out of the club. And hired by who exactly lol. Pardew was Llambias, McClaren was Charnley, Keegan is the only example of this. And this was when he had Dennis Wise telling him what to do. Llambias and Charnley were appointed to run the club in a specific way with specific targets. They've not been acting of their own accord. And if you need more evidence that Ashley's not changed, Lee Charnley still has a job. This is why if Rafa is given the job I think the only way he'd go is if he walked - there just isn't a history of sacking board members, even elevated club secretaries. If the poll were B) Rafa stays and gets screwed be Ashley in a way he hasn't messed around internally before, then obviously I'd choose A. B suggests Rafa will get everything he wants to build the club, and Ashley's history shows, Hughton aside as he was already here when he took over, that people he appoints are kept in power for as long as possible, and then some. That's because he purposefully appoints people who will do exactly as he says. Rafa does not fit into that category (but he certainly wouldn't be here if we'd had even five more points, it was sheer panic that got us asking about him) - neither did Kevin Keegan. Hughton was not at the club before Ashley arrived. My mistake - thought he came in during Allardyce. But I thought the poll would would have a semblence of realism, if Rafa would be appointed by Ashley, then a - Rafa would get all the stipulations he wanted, and b - Ashley wouldn't fire him unless something absolutely catastrophic was happening, like he'd be seen ripping SD hoardings out of the stands and trying to eat them. I don't doubt that if Rafa remains, it'll be if he's told he has control. Keegan was told the same and that quickly disintegrated. Once promotion is obtained, I would expect Ashley to revert to type. I don't see Rafa being fired either. I can very much see him walking though, and if they've been promoted by that point, Ashley won't care. I suspect he'd be delighted actually. Back to normal. Fair enough I understand your point, I just disagree End of the day, I think we all want Ashley out and Rafa in. Except you, who was worried about a Cellino coming in instead. Would you like to take a read of the online article I've written to the contrary? Back in your box please. No I don't want to read your article. To say there would be absolutely no risk that an owner could be worse than Ashley is naive in the extreme. This is a hypothetical debate, have you forgotten that?

havent even got an airport.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ? Have you been in a coma the last nine years? The only managers he's hired who haven't just been stooges have been treated like s***, lied to, and forced out of the club. And hired by who exactly lol. Pardew was Llambias, McClaren was Charnley, Keegan is the only example of this. And this was when he had Dennis Wise telling him what to do. Llambias and Charnley were appointed to run the club in a specific way with specific targets. They've not been acting of their own accord. And if you need more evidence that Ashley's not changed, Lee Charnley still has a job. This is why if Rafa is given the job I think the only way he'd go is if he walked - there just isn't a history of sacking board members, even elevated club secretaries. If the poll were B) Rafa stays and gets screwed be Ashley in a way he hasn't messed around internally before, then obviously I'd choose A. B suggests Rafa will get everything he wants to build the club, and Ashley's history shows, Hughton aside as he was already here when he took over, that people he appoints are kept in power for as long as possible, and then some. That's because he purposefully appoints people who will do exactly as he says. Rafa does not fit into that category (but he certainly wouldn't be here if we'd had even five more points, it was sheer panic that got us asking about him) - neither did Kevin Keegan. Hughton was not at the club before Ashley arrived. My mistake - thought he came in during Allardyce. But I thought the poll would would have a semblence of realism, if Rafa would be appointed by Ashley, then a - Rafa would get all the stipulations he wanted, and b - Ashley wouldn't fire him unless something absolutely catastrophic was happening, like he'd be seen ripping SD hoardings out of the stands and trying to eat them. I don't doubt that if Rafa remains, it'll be if he's told he has control. Keegan was told the same and that quickly disintegrated. Once promotion is obtained, I would expect Ashley to revert to type. I don't see Rafa being fired either. I can very much see him walking though, and if they've been promoted by that point, Ashley won't care. I suspect he'd be delighted actually. Back to normal. Fair enough I understand your point, I just disagree End of the day, I think we all want Ashley out and Rafa in. Except you, who was worried about a Cellino coming in instead. Would you like to take a read of the online article I've written to the contrary? Back in your box please.

Thread title

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ? Have you been in a coma the last nine years? The only managers he's hired who haven't just been stooges have been treated like s***, lied to, and forced out of the club. And hired by who exactly lol. Pardew was Llambias, McClaren was Charnley, Keegan is the only example of this. And this was when he had Dennis Wise telling him what to do. Llambias and Charnley were appointed to run the club in a specific way with specific targets. They've not been acting of their own accord. And if you need more evidence that Ashley's not changed, Lee Charnley still has a job. This is why if Rafa is given the job I think the only way he'd go is if he walked - there just isn't a history of sacking board members, even elevated club secretaries. If the poll were B) Rafa stays and gets screwed be Ashley in a way he hasn't messed around internally before, then obviously I'd choose A. B suggests Rafa will get everything he wants to build the club, and Ashley's history shows, Hughton aside as he was already here when he took over, that people he appoints are kept in power for as long as possible, and then some. That's because he purposefully appoints people who will do exactly as he says. Rafa does not fit into that category (but he certainly wouldn't be here if we'd had even five more points, it was sheer panic that got us asking about him) - neither did Kevin Keegan. Hughton was not at the club before Ashley arrived. My mistake - thought he came in during Allardyce. But I thought the poll would would have a semblence of realism, if Rafa would be appointed by Ashley, then a - Rafa would get all the stipulations he wanted, and b - Ashley wouldn't fire him unless something absolutely catastrophic was happening, like he'd be seen ripping SD hoardings out of the stands and trying to eat them. I don't doubt that if Rafa remains, it'll be if he's told he has control. Keegan was told the same and that quickly disintegrated. Once promotion is obtained, I would expect Ashley to revert to type. I don't see Rafa being fired either. I can very much see him walking though, and if they've been promoted by that point, Ashley won't care. I suspect he'd be delighted actually. Back to normal. Fair enough I understand your point, I just disagree End of the day, I think we all want Ashley out and Rafa in.

Players playing like their playing for a manager that knows he's staying - they're playing for their futures, either here or elsewhere.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ? Have you been in a coma the last nine years? The only managers he's hired who haven't just been stooges have been treated like s***, lied to, and forced out of the club. And hired by who exactly lol. Pardew was Llambias, McClaren was Charnley, Keegan is the only example of this. And this was when he had Dennis Wise telling him what to do. Llambias and Charnley were appointed to run the club in a specific way with specific targets. They've not been acting of their own accord. And if you need more evidence that Ashley's not changed, Lee Charnley still has a job. This is why if Rafa is given the job I think the only way he'd go is if he walked - there just isn't a history of sacking board members, even elevated club secretaries. If the poll were B) Rafa stays and gets screwed be Ashley in a way he hasn't messed around internally before, then obviously I'd choose A. B suggests Rafa will get everything he wants to build the club, and Ashley's history shows, Hughton aside as he was already here when he took over, that people he appoints are kept in power for as long as possible, and then some. That's because he purposefully appoints people who will do exactly as he says. Rafa does not fit into that category (but he certainly wouldn't be here if we'd had even five more points, it was sheer panic that got us asking about him) - neither did Kevin Keegan. Hughton was not at the club before Ashley arrived. My mistake - thought he came in during Allardyce. But I thought the poll would would have a semblence of realism, if Rafa would be appointed by Ashley, then a - Rafa would get all the stipulations he wanted, and b - Ashley wouldn't fire him unless something absolutely catastrophic was happening, like he'd be seen ripping SD hoardings out of the stands and trying to eat them.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ? Have you been in a coma the last nine years? The only managers he's hired who haven't just been stooges have been treated like s***, lied to, and forced out of the club. And hired by who exactly lol. Pardew was Llambias, McClaren was Charnley, Keegan is the only example of this. And this was when he had Dennis Wise telling him what to do. Llambias and Charnley were appointed to run the club in a specific way with specific targets. They've not been acting of their own accord. And if you need more evidence that Ashley's not changed, Lee Charnley still has a job. This is why if Rafa is given the job I think the only way he'd go is if he walked - there just isn't a history of sacking board members, even elevated club secretaries. If the poll were B) Rafa stays and gets screwed be Ashley in a way he hasn't messed around internally before, then obviously I'd choose A. B suggests Rafa will get everything he wants to build the club, and Ashley's history shows, Hughton aside as he was already here when he took over, that people he appoints are kept in power for as long as possible, and then some.

Surely even some of the worst owners in football can get it right once in a lifetime, law of averages and all

Mate, it's a hypothetical nonsense of a discussion. Everyone wants both Benitez to stay and Ashley to go. True

Ashley has ultimate accountability for the failures of those he mistakenly delegated power to. If Rafa takes the job with the understanding that he would have that same power, how is that bad.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ? Have you been in a coma the last nine years? The only managers he's hired who haven't just been stooges have been treated like s***, lied to, and forced out of the club. And hired by who exactly lol. Pardew was Llambias, McClaren was Charnley, Keegan is the only example of this. And this was when he had Dennis Wise telling him what to do.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Ashley is Cellino ffs. Like I said, can people name the owners in English football who are worse than Ashley? Then think of how many clubs there are. Ashley a silent owner as well? He might not pick the team but he restricts the revenue streams of the club, warns against progress in the cups, changes the name of the stadium, has been complicit in the events that led to two tribunals etc. etc. It's not like he's not involved in all the s*** stuff. You don't think Rafa would only manage this club with cast iron guarentees that he gets the control and the finances required to do so? He's almost said as much in interviews in the past few days, which negates most of the points you're making. As for Ashley being Cellino, there couldn't be more polar opposites in terms of chairmen meddling in day to day affairs of the club.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate. Because this will never happen. He's show time and time again that it won't. Such as ?

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, s**** and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean. Voting A is just voting for revenge? Do you think Ashley's changed or something? Rafa will be gone in two or three years at the most, and then it'll be business as usual. Elaborate.

There's a real inferiority complex going on within our support judging by posts like this. Expectations have been smashed to bits over the last ten years. Says a lot that posts like this are being made, yet also concern over whether he'll take the bloody Everton job. I like the guy a lot but he is not some cast iron degree of success. No manager is in football. Why has this hypothetical poll got me going so much You'd be hard pressed to find another manager more likely to be successful with any given club than Rafa Benitez though, even with the whole fanbase against him, he delivered for Chelsea when asked to do so. A true pro and I agree that we'll never have a better manager, at least in my lifetime. Klopp maybe but that'd be 10 years down the road if at all. If Ashley sits in the back and gives Rafa the autonomy he gave the previous regimes then we get what we want - a club that tries, that is run well and there would be a chance for success. Ashley goes, and in walks in Massimo Cellino v2. It's a massive gamble, and a silent owner with Rafa Benitez running everything would be the best possible circumstance we could hope for. Voting A is just voting for revenge, which I understand, but take a step back from the 10 years of lies, shite and comatose existence and realise what B would actually mean.

Liverpool when we put three past them, I even did a pic in the 'Football in Paint' thread on it

Our situation is analogous to living with an incurable terminal disease but then winning the Lotto.