Cronky

Depends on whether the story was true, doesn't it?

I find this attitude baffling if I'm honest. I believe you are also one of the few who still think we aren't in serious trouble of getting relegated (or were up until not so long ago)? With Kinnear not being up to the job both in terms of health or quality, we will be looking for a new manager regardlesss sooner or later. As far as I am concerned we have already lost precious months to rectify this wrong, but the only worse thing than doing the right thing late is not doing it at all. Besides, what is "too late"..? Too late to avoid relegation? Well, maybe it is. Then again, maybe it isn't. Worth the gamble if you ask me, especially as we need to start building for the future, be it in the Premiership or the Championship, and Kinnear should not be our future under any circumstance. I think there are various dimensions to this problem that people are just not facing up to. I can't see anyone of any great reputation wanting to come into this club at the present time, either on a temporary or permanent basis. If you're doing well in your current position, then you won't want to abandon it at this point for us, and your current employer won't want to release you. If you're not doing well, or you're out of a job, odds are you won't do any better than Kinnear. The only remotely sensible suggestion I've read here is Venables, and he's already said that he'd only take the job on a permanent basis. The odds at him even accepting a permanent job now with so little time available to avoid relegation are very long, I'd say. Rather than subject the players to any more turmoil and uncertainty, I think we've no choice but to stick with what we've got.

This season we've had the previous manager walking out the week after the close of the transfer window, a fans revolt leading to the owner trying to sell up, the owner changing his mind after he can't sell, a bad string of injury problems, our best player in prison, a club captain who's not interested, the manager having a heart scare, a restricted transfer budget - all of which have afflicted a club that's been struggling in the bottom half of the table and flirting with relegation for each of the previous three seasons. None of that is the fault of Kinnear or Hughton, and yet it has all had a significant affect on the team. Whenever results go wrong, it's inevitable that there's a clamour for a change of manager, but it's not a magic answer, particularly in our situation.

It's too late to appoint a new manager. I wish we could put this issue to bed, it's ridiculous.

The injuries to Bassong and Taylor worry me more than the result. CB is the area of the field where you can't afford to be weak.

Yeah, this. We really needed to go ahead during our best period.

Even in the first half, we looked very vulnerable down the centre. Really bad luck to lose both Bassong and Taylor, because Colo looks a spent force. All his confidence seems to have gone. I still think Martins and Lovenkrands look our best attacking combination. Hughton has to show some balls and stick with them. There's going to be a clamour now for Owen to be restored to the starting line up which he has to resist. We were actually creating chances until that second goal knocked all the confidence out of us.

did u see the pen he took with his left against eveton blasted that one and it was possibly worse than todays Well like I said, he shouldn't be taking pens at all, but power rather than accuracy is his strength.

I'm not just being wise after the event here - Martins is not a reliable striker of the ball and shouldn't be taking penalties. It looks like he's taking them because he's the one who's most eager to score. If he has to take them, he should blast the ball, not try to place it with his weaker foot.

Fantastic. Bring back Lovenkrands. A brave but sensible decision. If we clog Arsenal up down the centre, we've got a chance, because they don't get much from crosses. I also liked the look of Martins and Lovenkrands down the middle.

Well, Makelele can pass the ball and Butt can't. That would be my take.

I think we are ok wide left, but who do you consider a decent option on the right? Duff and Guti can play either side, and there's Lua Lua as back up. Not ideal, but not our weakest area is all I'd say. (Yes, I don't think Duff is that bad) It's the spine of the team that we really need to get right. There's an old adage that a team is strong from the back forwards, and the middle outwards, which I think is basically true.

I think we're okay out wide. I'd like a centre back and a striker that can drop deeper as main targets.

Lua Lua is the pick of the bunch, from what I've seen. Both he and Ranger have the talent to get to the very highest level, it really depends on how well they apply themselves. I've been impressed by Tavernier, Krul and Shane Ferguson as well. This has to be the best crop of youngsters we've ever had.

I'm afraid Gazza has great difficulty in managing himself, let alone a major football club.

The choice of Kinnear gets criticised a lot, but there were particular circumstances. Keegan had walked, Ashley had decided to sell up in order to appease the fans, and we needed someone who was prepared to step into what seemed a very temporary position. There weren't going to be too many willing candidates. It boils down to who you consider to be at fault for bringing about that desperate situation in the first place. But that's another debate.

Broadly speaking, I'd agree with Beardsley. Ashley does have a strategy - whether it works or not, we have to see. But - a) I don't believe that he's purely in it for what he can get. b) Sometimes you do have to take a step back in order to move forward. c) It might just work, and d) The previous strategy wasn't working.

Phil Brown seems to be losing it at the moment. He seemed rattled before the game with us, and now he's blaming Wenger for decisions made by the ref. Methinks he's a worried man, and all this won't help his players.

Perhaps, but I think people are at the stage where panic is the only course of action. Well I wouldn't say that panic is ever the right response. Even if the two managers mentioned - Ketsbaia and Martinez - were willing to come in the present situation and their clubs were willing to release them right now (both long shots), they'd be just as big a risk as sticking with Kinnear, and probably an even greater one. The idea, expressed later in the thread, that things can't possibly get worse really is borne of panic. There has been so much upheaval at the club this season that a further change right now is the last thing we need.

This is just panic dressed up.

I voted West Brom, Boro and Hull. First two are obvious, and Hull have that downward momentum.

I agree with most of that, in particular Barton's importance to the side and Colo not being suited to the Premiership. Guti is frustrating, but his appetite for work and his ability to hold on to the ball is enough to warrant a place IMO. Milner and Zoggy could certainly shoot, but had other weaknesses in their game. I think there's a bigger problem with Owen then you're suggesting though. I don't think he'd still be brilliant in a good side, and clearly neither do Messrs Ferguson, Mourinho, Capello and Benitez. I agree that we're missing an attacking CM though, just as we need an attacker that can play well in the space between striker and midfield, (alhtough Lovenkrands should be given a longer try in that role) Our better teams have featured players that can fill those two roles (Beardsley and Lee; Bellamy and Dyer)

Going by the 60 minute Sky-lights - Colo is a bit of a worry. He's all right if he gets to the ball first, but he struggles when under any kind of physical challenge, on the ground or in the air. I don't think Taylor is better, but assuming we survive, he's one I wouldn't mind seeing replaced. I was disappointed but not surprised that we started with Owen. Martins and Loevenkrands looked a promising combination to me. Smith and Geremi did okay, I thought, but we need someone who can get forward from the midfield, with pace.

All he was saying was he grew up as an Evertonian and rivalry with Liverpool is in his blood. The word 'hate' is taken a bit out of context. Mind you, if I were a Liverpool player, I'd be very wary of winding him up about it. Rooney seems to thrive on pressure.

It's a characteristic of the professional game that fans and journos alike start talking about 'must win games' far too early. We're only four points behind Hull - a gap that can disappear in two games.