magorific

So you're denying that there was significant dissent on this forum towards Taylor while the contract thing dragged on? You're denying that coloured people's opinions of him, despite him barely putting a foot wrong when fit last season? Yep, heard it all now... Got to be said, Taylor's had 6 seasons in the PL. The fact you're pointing to half a season in The Championship as proof of his quality says it all. Ultimately, both Taylor and Williamson are lower-end PL defenders. The players around them on the pitch have lots of quality and consistency, so replacing one or both is not a major priority at this moment. Says a man who insisted not so long ago that Taylor would and should come in for Williamson when fit.

So you're denying that there was significant dissent on this forum towards Taylor while the contract thing dragged on? You're denying that coloured people's opinions of him, despite him barely putting a foot wrong when fit last season? Yep, heard it all now... Got to be said, Taylor's had 6 seasons in the PL. The fact you're pointing to half a season in The Championship as proof of his quality says it all. Ultimately, both Taylor and Williamson are lower-end PL defenders. The players around them on the pitch have lots of quality and consistency, so replacing one or both is not a major priority at this moment. So you're denying that there was significant dissent on this forum towards Taylor while the contract thing dragged on? You're denying that coloured people's opinions of him, despite him barely putting a foot wrong when fit last season? Yep, heard it all now... I'm not denying that at all Nor am I denying that it coloured people's opinions of him. But many see Williamson as the safer and simpler defender. It's got nothing to do with what he what he demanded in his contract. So people's opinion of Taylor is coloured, but their opinion of him has nothing to do with what he demanded in his contract. Mmm... Again, I'm not saying Taylor is as good as Colo, just that I can't see why people should see Williamson as in any way "safe" after mistakes in the numerous games mentioned. Mistakes which, to my mind, were worse than I've seen Taylor make. As for the argument re Taylor only performing in the Championship, I don't remember him being particularly to blame for us getting relegated. In fact, I remember him as one of our better performers.

I don't see Williamson throwing himself to the ground when he gets caught out of position, repeatedly. No, but he's been left literally on his arse enough times in recent months. Not to mention the wrestling at every free kick/corner.

So you're denying that there was significant dissent on this forum towards Taylor while the contract thing dragged on? You're denying that coloured people's opinions of him, despite him barely putting a foot wrong when fit last season? Yep, heard it all now...

No agenda with me, just addressing the simple argument - which was started by other people on here - about whether Williamson or Taylor are the better player. As you should well know, as an administrator, if there is an agenda concerning this subject on this foum, it's against Taylor, at least in part because so many have chosen to swallow the club's side of his contract "saga". That's the club run by liars. I've made my point re Colo many times (check if you want): he's a fantastic talent - as good a footballing defender as I've seen anywhere - but can be found wanting when met with serious pace and power. Is he our No 1 centre-half? Undoubtedly, and Taylor would be well off realising he will never be half the footballer Colo is. But, sorry, I won't turn a blind eye to Williamson's frailties, which have cost us goals and points against several teams other than Bolton, and - in my opinion - are more glaring than Taylor's. Mine's an opinion - an opinion voiced in a thread entitled Mike Williamson. If it was an agenda, I'd start off a whole new thread. Good post. Apologies for lumping you in with other posters who chime in with their rehashed restated boilerplate convictions irrespective of individual performances or, more egregiously, a series of individual performances. My bad though, seriously - this thread is particularly weighed down by such posters, but I was wrong to assume you were one of them. That said, I still can't agree with you about Williamson's shortcomings being more glaring than Taylor's. With so little evidence of Taylor's performance to go on from this season, I can see such a discussion becoming cyclical very quickly - but in the five full games Taylor played this season we conceded 10 goals. [i'm willing to accept that was his "come back" after a long time out, and much of it was paired alongside Sol Campbell against pretty decent opposition.] As my parting shot though, I will say that Taylor at centre-back makes me nervous - he's a hothead, often cheats and doesn't look as an intelligent a player as Williamson - who I think is learning from Colo and showing progress. Perhaps by virtue of all his injuries/time out, Taylor doesn't look to have matured significantly as a defender in his time here. So, without trying to forcibly change your opinion, for these reasons and those stated above for me I'd definitely rank Williamson over Colo - and I'd rate him high enough (relative to a club of our standing) not to bring in another first-choice centre back this summer either. The real world isn't fantasy football (Man City, Chelski etc aside) and realistically, even with a possible £35m war chest this summer - I'd much rather have the three or four signings we bring in be: LB cover CM 1st team CM cover CF 1st team Prior to the last couple of months, I'd have happily seen Taylor come back in at right-back, as I think he's a solid bet there. But Simpson has more than earned his place now. Personally, I'd love to see us buy a top-class centre-back. Gary Cahill or Hangeland would be great, but that's fantasy stuff.

No agenda with me, just addressing the simple argument - which was started by other people on here - about whether Williamson or Taylor are the better player. As you should well know, as an administrator, if there is an agenda concerning this subject on this foum, it's against Taylor, at least in part because so many have chosen to swallow the club's side of his contract "saga". That's the club run by liars. I've made my point re Colo many times (check if you want): he's a fantastic talent - as good a footballing defender as I've seen anywhere - but can be found wanting when met with serious pace and power. Is he our No 1 centre-half? Undoubtedly, and Taylor would be well off realising he will never be half the footballer Colo is. But, sorry, I won't turn a blind eye to Williamson's frailties, which have cost us goals and points against several teams other than Bolton, and - in my opinion - are more glaring than Taylor's. Mine's an opinion - an opinion voiced in a thread entitled Mike Williamson. If it was an agenda, I'd start off a whole new thread.

Aye, right. I didn't even mention Bolton away. Think Taylor would have been forgiven by the sheep-like hate mob on here if he'd been party to that debacle?

Agreed. He won every duel against Zigic. I do not think Tayls would have pulled off the same feat. No, there's no way Tayls would have coped with a strikeforce which has scored less than a goal a game at home in the Premier League. I doubt he'd have been bum raped by Jason Roberts, half a dozen Arsenal players and Stevenage this season either.

Same goes for Williamson.

Absolute nonsense. Have you actually watched much of Taylor? He loves running the ball out from the back. In my book, his biggest problem is that he thinks he's some sort of Beckenbauer, when he should just stick to basics. The idea that Williamson is better than him in the air ("wins everything in the air" my arse) is equally misguided. I agree with your first point about Taylor, sometimes he takes it too far. Your second point though i open to question, i'm not sure Taylor is better in the air than Williamson. Overall though, i'd rather have Mike at the back than Taylor as i think Taylor is far to dodgy and i never feel confident when he is at the back. If Taylor had made the basic errors Williamson has made in recent months, he'd be hung, drawn and quartered. Not least by the hatred on here.

Absolute nonsense. Have you actually watched much of Taylor? He loves running the ball out from the back. In my book, his biggest problem is that he thinks he's some sort of Beckenbauer, when he should just stick to basics. The idea that Williamson is better than him in the air ("wins everything in the air" my arse) is equally misguided.

Can you name a better Newcastle left-back? Ever?

cole, evra, clichy, assou-ekotto, Shorey, konchelsky. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh saying Championship standard but I would never put him in the same league as some of the best left backs around europe i.e Fabio Coentrao, Marcelo, Bastos, WUM? Mackem? Or both? If non of the above, you need to get back on the medication.

Exactly, I posted something similar earlier. Unless Ashley had spent Man City-style since he came in, Europe would have been very unlikely. We still might have shown enough to keep the better players happy, but if they want the CL then there's nothing we can do. Read the interview properly. Of course this is to do with Ashley's ambition (or lack of). Jose draws reference to possibly the most glaring failing of the Ashley era: not maintaining a squad capable of covering key positions. Jose is our only senior left-back (if you accept, given that he was punted out on loan, that Pardew doesn't rate Kadar at all). He has seen our only decent striker at this level sold without a back-up plan in place (after several months of speculation that he would go). He has seen a manager he rated treated like dirt. Fair play to Pardew for his work so far, but even he has been hung out to dry and left looking like a mug by the Carroll saga. All this while Jose has quietly been proving what a lot of us suspected during the relegation season: that he's a class act. Nobody will know better than a player as good as Jose that Pardew is succeeding despite Ashley, not in any way because of him. Tottenham are in the Champions League this season without paying outrageous transfer fees or massive wages just a couple of seasons after they were on the slide. It can be done without throwing City's stupid money at it. It could - only could, I admit - be done here, and Jose knows that. But he knows it won't be done under an owner who only knows how to wing things.

Anyone verified where these quotes originated from? Can't see them anywhere in the Spanish press, which is where I assumed they'd been lifted from, as I can't see Jose telling that to an English paper.

This may be my favourite post this year. Sounds painful, mind...

I am old enough to remember when sweepers were all the rage - Baresi et al. If the sweeper system was back in vogue, Colo would be a worldwide icon. He's as good a footballing centre-back as I've seen, but suffers against the English battering ram.

He did nowt man. Utter nonsense. That's a pisstake if you are being serious Towelie. Did he set up a single chance today? If he did, I can't remember it. His two shots were both pathetic. He was average and carried by Enrique, who had a f***ing subliminal game. f*** off. Nice one. There is no point reasoning with such drivel. Indeed. "Subliminal" had no place in that post.

A measured post. No wonder our fans' stock is so high nationwide.

Laughable that people can just write off Joe Cole as "absolutely s**t". Past his best, almost certainly. Not worth the wages he would want? Again, almost certainly. But s**t? He's in a different class to countless Newcastle midfielders I've seen over the years, including some of our current lot. How long have you been watching NUFC?

Yeah, like Owen, Martins, Duff, Beye etc wouldn't have left - and like none of them will have been actively looking for a move - that same January. The suggestion that any of them is more loyal than Given just because they stayed and went through the motions is beyond absurd. Where did I say they were more loyal? My point was, they were desperate to go and they didn't go until we were gone, and they were heartless bastards. If Given had done the same, there would be no animosity from any fan IMO. And my point is clear: given the opportunity to go that January, any of those and more WOULD have gone - and without a backwards glance. Yet you somehow suggest they made a moral decision not to jump ship. Bizarre.

Yeah, like Owen, Martins, Duff, Beye etc wouldn't have left - and like none of them will have been actively looking for a move - that same January. The suggestion that any of them is more loyal than Given just because they stayed and went through the motions is beyond absurd.

Our "lot" involved that day pleaded guilty to violent disorder - a higher charge - months ago, which suggests the police case against the Sunderland lads was actually pretty thin considering they initially accused them of all sorts - including attacking police dogs.

Jonas isn't a striker though. 2001–2007 Arsenal 29 (1) 2005 → Celtic (loan) 0 (0) 2005–2006 → West Ham United (loan) 7 (0) 2006 → Wolverhampton Wanderers (loan) 14 (2) 2007–2010 Middlesbrough 78 (11) Goals in brackets, that a s*** insurance policy Only Americans look at stats. Only idiots refuse to use stats to help make a decision. The fact is we have all see him play for a few years in the prem. He is garbage and the stats back that up. Luca Modric has 1 goal and 1 assists this season, must be s*** because the stats back that up. That will go over the heads of most people. Aliadiere is technically a pretty accomplished player. He doesn't score enough goals but he might well help create a few. But seeing as we've got plenty of strikers at the club already we obviously don't need "an extra body". Please tell me you're not comparing Aliadiere with Modric...

I'm staggered, on the evidence of Arsenal (twice), Wigan (h), Blackburn (h), Bolton (a) and Stevenage, that anyone would choose Williamson over Taylor right now. Williamson was worse in those games than I can ever remember Taylor being, for all his kissing the badge, arm-waving nonsense. Because those games are stretched out over a number of months. Of course a player is going to have bad games, but to pick each one of them out like that is unfair. If Taylor had played as much, he'd have had as many poor games. In fact, I'd struggle to name a player who hasn't had a few poor games this season. Sorry, but that's nonsense. In all those games, Williamson didn't just make mistakes, he single-handedly cost us goals. When did Taylor last make a mistake as blatant, basic, weak and generally piss poor as Williamson did against, say, Jason Roberts? When did Taylor last play as abjectly as Williamson did at Bolton, or even on Saturday? Yes, Taylor has significant flaws in his game, and the sooner he realises he isn't a Geordie Beckenbauer, the better. But the idea that Williamson is harshly criticised is mighty rich considering the zero leeway given to Taylor, who - don't forget - didn't put a foot wrong for the first half of last season.