Shak

We have absolutely no Plan B. The game plan is always to go out, get stuck in and keep it tight defensively and nick a goal at some point. Once that inevitably fails, we have no ability whatsoever to chase a game. Even if Sam eventually gets the defense right (which I reckon he will) , can you ever see a man who looks so one-dimensional ever leading us where we want to be? No chance, IMO.

Crowd reaction will be very, very telling.

Are City actually trying to stop us passing it about though, cos if they're content to let us just play it about then it's not all that great an achievement tbh I'm not watching btw, genuine question.

Obvious this would happen. Our team is utterly incapable of chasing a game, taking it to our opponents. Have been all season. We may get a goal from nothing, always a chance I suppose, but once a team decides to get defensive and invite us on to them, we're an absolute joke.

Actually, since a ban won't effect me in the slightest. Wullie and 2J are absolute wankers, Dave too. And Gejon.

Roeder started it... Anyway, sadly I've picked a bad time to start a debate. Going away on holiday for a week or so right now so I'll just wish everyone a Happy New Year's and be on my way.

He has done what you're asking from left-back though, as has Milner at times so you're overexagerating a little I feel. I mean most of our good play comes down the left which is pretty strong in an attacking sense with N'Zogbia and Milner down there. You simply can't underestimate the education he's getting in terms of development, this is one of the reasons why England fails at international level because our players are brought up in fixed positions instead of learning to play a number of them to improve their all-round game. Still reckon he'd be better served getting a game or two in a position he has a furute in personally, but fair enough. All I care about is the team, if N'Zogbia stays at left-back and Duff plays on the left-wing ahead of N'Zogbia I couldn't care less so long as we're getting joy out of it. This clamour to have him in on the left-wing is actually amusing, given that the player himself would prefer to play in the middle. The team is my main concern as well, which is obvious. I just feel, very strongly, that the team would benefit with what I BELIEVE to be our most exciting young player being used to his full potential. I may be wrong and he may turn out shit, and fair enough. But is it so much to ask he gets a chance there? Great season? He did OK in an exceptionally poor side. He has since never quite excelled on the left-flank as a winger, for me anyway. Our stand out player at age 19, I'd say that's fairly good, personally. And he's not excelled there since, which goes back to my point about his treatment. I don't hold a grudge against Duff personally for it (anymore ), but once Duff was bought it was clear N'Zogbia was playing second fiddle in that spot. Has he shined there in his few opportunities? No, but I really think he was poorly treated, particularly by Roeder who clearly didn't want him at the club at all. Perhaps now we can see how many of our players get too big for their boots or why NUFC has had a problem with players thinking they are bigger than the club, because fans care more for the individual than the team or rather have a twisted way of looking at things through a player's perspective rather than the team or indeed the manager's. "Poor Charlie, stranded at left-back" "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" IMO anyway. PS I'm not saying you're stamping your feet or care more about the individual than the team btw. Again, I'll go back to my point about wasting what I personally believe to be potentially our most dangerous player and ask how exactly this helps the team, which has been absolutely inept going forward, on the whole?

My biggest gripe is the fact that all season we've had absolutely nobody capable of beating his man in the final third and doing something a bit different while N'Zogbia, though not the finished article, is certainly capable of doing that and has been stranded at left-back where he's not only wasted in an attacking sense, but also a weak link defensively. All this "playing him at left back will improve him in the long run" talk is guff as far as I'm concerned as well. I'd have thought actually playing him in the position that he's going to spend his career would improve him much more long term personally. As has been said, he's still got to work on his ability to consistently effect the game in the attacking third. Hard to see him doing that at left-back. But it may improve him slightly in a defensive sense in the long-run, so whoop di-do!! With Duff back now there's even more competition for the left side spot and if I'm being honest I've absolutely no faith in Allardyce to ever give him a run of games in that position to even try and make it his own. Two years ago he was our most promising young player, coming off the back of a great season on the left where, while not the finished article by any means, he looked to be a potential star in the making. Since then I doubt he's ever gotten two starts in a row on the left side. If that's not an absolutely dreadful display of attempting to nourish your best young talent, then I don't know what is. And it pisses me off, quite frankly.

Love how the thread has descended into guesses...

RIP

Jesus He would be my choice. Not so good on crosses apparently. I thought he was famous for his cross, personally. Nailed on. mackems.gif

Who got raped all day? Was it N'Zogbia or was it Milner? Who prevented the majority of attacks down his side? SWP could've had a f****** hatful today and the same number of assists. Aye, N'Zogbia isn't a full-back though is he? And I'm thinking long-term, and long-term James Milner simply isn't good enough for where we want to get to. N'Zogbia's infinitely more dangerous on the wing than Milner will ever be, as Parky says he'll potentially be a useful squad player one day, nothing more. If N'Zogbia had worked as hard and had half the nous of Milner today, we'd probably have won. And if Milner had half the talent and ability to actually create chances as N'Zogbia then we might have won too. Oh. I can't be arsed. Milner's s****, N'Zogbia's king of the world. Let's move on. Nice counter-point. It wasn't a counter, I'm just sick of this thread, tbh. Milner performed his job superbly today, yet gets ripped for it. N'Zogbia performed his job poorly today, yet gets accolades. Doubt you'll see anyone saying N'Zogbia did well defensively at all, people are just sick of him being played there when generally he looks our most dangerous player going forward and is pretty bad defensively. I think he'd be fine defensively as a LW, when he's not the last man back on his side. Different ball game completely when you have a competent full-back behind you, as Milner does. Milner worked very hard and was solid, but I want more than that from the wide men. They're the ones you expect to give you something different and make chances, even if they must frustrate you and lose the ball at times in trying to create something special. Milner just doesn't have that ability to create that something special for me, even if he is a model pro who works very hard, whereas N'Zogbia does. That's all I'm saying.

Who got raped all day? Was it N'Zogbia or was it Milner? Who prevented the majority of attacks down his side? SWP could've had a f****** hatful today and the same number of assists. Aye, N'Zogbia isn't a full-back though is he? And I'm thinking long-term, and long-term James Milner simply isn't good enough for where we want to get to. N'Zogbia's infinitely more dangerous on the wing than Milner will ever be, as Parky says he'll potentially be a useful squad player one day, nothing more. If N'Zogbia had worked as hard and had half the nous of Milner today, we'd probably have won. And if Milner had half the talent and ability to actually create chances as N'Zogbia then we might have won too. Oh. I can't be arsed. Milner's s****, N'Zogbia's king of the world. Let's move on. Nice counter-point.

Who got raped all day? Was it N'Zogbia or was it Milner? Who prevented the majority of attacks down his side? SWP could've had a f****** hatful today and the same number of assists. Aye, N'Zogbia isn't a full-back though is he? And I'm thinking long-term, and long-term James Milner simply isn't good enough for where we want to get to. N'Zogbia's infinitely more dangerous on the wing than Milner will ever be, as Parky says he'll potentially be a useful squad player one day, nothing more. If N'Zogbia had worked as hard and had half the nous of Milner today, we'd probably have won. And if Milner had half the talent and ability to actually create chances as N'Zogbia then we might have won too.

Who got raped all day? Was it N'Zogbia or was it Milner? Who prevented the majority of attacks down his side? SWP could've had a f****** hatful today and the same number of assists. Aye, N'Zogbia isn't a full-back though is he? And I'm thinking long-term, and long-term James Milner simply isn't good enough for where we want to get to. N'Zogbia's infinitely more dangerous on the wing than Milner will ever be, as Parky says he'll potentially be a useful squad player one day, nothing more.

Aye, he's just not very good at the end of the day God love him.

Wahey, ust had a look at my FF team (which I change about very rarely) and apparently I've Berbatov as my captain.

True, but given what we saw today against a £100 mil pound team away from home, there is no excuse about Sam handicapping them with his tactics. It is down to the players. There is no formation in the world that forces bad passes and poor defending. What I'd like to see now is Mort come out and give Sam another vote of confidence, right away. Let the players know they are playing for their own careers, not his. There can be no sitting back and falling back on bad habits. All too often in most sports, the players are held unaccountable. Shape the f*** up and have a go at the opposition. Look at what Man City have done all season by having belief in themselves. The point is that I don't think Sam knows any other way to set his team up other than the dog-fight, get at em' approach we saw today. While today was pleasing in some respects, if we put in the same kind of performance against Wigan then it'd be viewed as a shambles, and justifiably so.

How about we just play N'Zogbia at left wing. Just a a zany thought, like.

But if he scored the winner it's a tactical masterstroke!! Hindsight is great [/quote- TheCoach]

FFS, that's not tactics it's just what players do. We'd not much other option though once we brought Martins off and lost all semblence of pace up front.

Don't expect any fireworks against City or Stoke... We're utterly incapable of taking a game to our opponents.

Ironically he did f*** all when he become a LW. It was when Martins was taken off and our wonderous manager ridiculously decided to play for a draw, actually. Owen was a positive move. Martins was poor. We didn't lose because of that move. Hear hear. How anyone can blame SA today is beyond me. I think he deserves as much credit as the players for the way they were set up and played today. I think he is absolutely right too about n'Zogbia - he has much more room ot attack sides when breaking into space from left back. Oh, and Given was excellent today. As he usually is. He has more space to work in because he's getting the ball at the halfway line with about four opposing players between him and goal, so there's really no need to press him at that point. Cristiano Ronaldo would get a lot more room playing RB, but you ouldn't put him there would you?

Ironically he did f*** all when he become a LW. It was when Martins was taken off and our wonderous manager ridiculously decided to play for a draw, actually. Owen was a positive move. Martins was poor. We didn't lose because of that move. Martins was at least worrying Chelsea, they knew they couldn't really push on and go at us for fear of leaving him room to run into. Bringing Owen into a game like this was about the most stupid thing Sam could have done, for reasons Rich has explained already so I won't revisit them.

Ironically he did f*** all when he become a LW. It was when Martins was taken off and our wonderous manager ridiculously decided to play for a draw, actually.