Shak

Really does seem strange to be resting both Gerrard and Torres, their world class players going forward IMO. No way he'll be sacked next summer though I would say, they're improving every year and will go closer this year. Making steady progress, it'd make no sense to get rid.

Better than Heskey ffs! He's also better than ameobi.. whats your point? I just find it laughable that he rates someone like Heskey and lables someone like Keane as "s***". Keane may not be the most consistent footballer in the world, but he's no s***! aah ok.. tbh i don't rate either of them- keane is a good finisher though I don't agree. He seems to need about 5 chances to score 1. His finishing is very inconsistent, misses a lot of good/decent chances but generally comes up with the odd moment of pure finishing class that you look at and think he's world class in that department. Bit like his all-round game tbh, I think he's a useful player in general though. I'd like to have him on the bench, though not starting ideally.

Share commom interests you two from what I hear. Whatr a negative outlook though.

Ze Zog.

Isn't the point that you should be trying to help the club with what you're doing though? You should really be breaking your balls trying to get the club to take your ideas on board and prove to them that you're worth working with. I get the impression that you lot don't seem willing to compromise over anything and want to do things all your way, which is laughable quite frankly. i thought they wanted flags and singing, therefore atmosphere? Seems to me there doesn't need to be a lot of compromise for that. Changing the name for one thing. As I recall, at their meeting with the club they were told that the club wanted more say in how things were done with the Ultras, but they wer having none of it. Obviously it's unfair to expect them to just hand over what they've started, but clearly the club will have more power to move the organistaion in the right direction and garner support. But it seems a lot of the Ultras are just more interested in helping themselves than the club.

Isn't the point that you should be trying to help the club with what you're doing though? You should really be breaking your balls trying to get the club to take your ideas on board and prove to them that you're worth working with. I get the impression that you lot don't seem willing to compromise over anything and want to do things all your way, which is laughable quite frankly.

£5m Fuck off at that price.

Joey Barton at the Walker Cup today. Was watching Rory McIlroy hit a shot when I noticed the fella directly behind him in my line of sight looked very familiar. Think he noticed me squinting at him, I felt like a right pleb.

Torres has the advantage of very good all-round play though. Really can't see Martins and Owen working at all. You need one of your strikers to be able to drop deep and link the play. Owen could do that, I suppose, as his touch and general link up play is very good. But really you want him playing on the shoulder of the last defender all the time as he times runs so well and is such a danger to get in behind, so he'd really be wasted deep. I like Martins, but surely nobody can suggest he's equiped for that role in the least bit?

Steve Staunton should really be shot tbh. What a useless wanker. Luckily I'm beyond caring at this point.

Kevin Doyle scores a wonder goal. Never thought that would happen.

how did he do? Played the full game.

You think it's safe to assume we'll beat them? We should beat them, obviously, but it's idiotic to just assume that it should be an easy three points. What you reckon the odds will be at the bookies? As the season develops and we continue to improve people will stop worrying about games like this. They'd be foolish to do so. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/3385515.stm I'm not "assuming" we'll beat anyone. There will be plenty of games coming where I will be worried, just saying this is less likely to be a pitfall for us all things considered and no I'm not particlularly worried about Derby. Other way around for me, these are the games I worry about because they're the games we really need to start winning consistently. ohmelads post was basically spot on. Good to know the vibes are good for it though. The first game we're likely to lose and you can start worrying about now is away to Man City. 29th Sept. Point being I'll not consider that a disaster, as it's a game that will be no shame in losing. Not beating Derby though is the type of thing we've done for years so that'd be much more of a concern for me. Beat the bad teams consistently and make ourselves tough to play against for the better teams. That's the first step. I think we'll beat Derby, btw.

You think it's safe to assume we'll beat them? We should beat them, obviously, but it's idiotic to just assume that it should be an easy three points. What you reckon the odds will be at the bookies? As the season develops and we continue to improve people will stop worrying about games like this. They'd be foolish to do so. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/3385515.stm I'm not "assuming" we'll beat anyone. There will be plenty of games coming where I will be worried, just saying this is less likely to be a pitfall for us all things considered and no I'm not particlularly worried about Derby. Other way around for me, these are the games I worry about because they're the games we really need to start winning consistently. ohmelads post was basically spot on. Good to know the vibes are good for it though.

You think it's safe to assume we'll beat them? We should beat them, obviously, but it's idiotic to just assume that it should be an easy three points. What you reckon the odds will be at the bookies? As the season develops and we continue to improve people will stop worrying about games like this. They'd be foolish to do so. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/3385515.stm

You think it's safe to assume we'll beat them? We should beat them, obviously, but it's idiotic to just assume that it should be an easy three points. What you reckon the odds will be at the bookies?

You think it's safe to assume we'll beat them? We should beat them, obviously, but it's idiotic to just assume that it should be an easy three points.

Really can't take a win at Derby as a given by any means, nevermind expect to beat them comfortably. I'd happily take a jammy 1-0. Good start though, yeah.

What a random change to make in the thread title.

He's a hero by default really.

If Roeder was strong enough to allow for real competition you would have a point. Most people's impression was that senior players walked all over him - I can think of Owen, Shearer and Parker just to name three. Remember the embarassing sight of Glenda begging his players to do a lap of honour at the end of last season and Parker pushing Roeder away while giving him a mouthful? Roeder was a toadying lick-spittle and he got what he deserved from his team, total lack of respect and contempt. roeder played duff on merit..................thats how bad n'zog was! is the truth that hard to take ? Under Big Sam the Zog is looking like a player again. Is that truth hard to take? which is why i've said i'm very happy at his form and last season repeatedly said i wanted him to produce his previous seasons form,......the truth is bloody easy to take! i have this simple system you see, criticise a player when he plays poorly,praise the player when he plays well. introduce this system too......comprehend the fact that the way the manager interacts with players affects how they play, some more than others, n'zogbia is a young lad in a foreign country who needs confidence, roeder didnt give him any, n'zogbias form dipped, sam's given him some confidence, his form's drastically improved. simple system innit? a regular behind closed doors eh ? so i have to be the cleaner at the training ground to assume (and notice i say assume, i'm admitting there's a flaw in my argument, i dont KNOW these things, but we have to speculate, we dont know much about what goes on behind close doors) that sams influence on n'zogbia has helped him back into form?. From my life experience so far, i can tell that people perform better in their jobs, whatever their job may be, when they have confidence in their ability, especially, when that job involves them using a natural talent of theirs. i can also pretty confidently say that having perfomed well at their job for a year, said person would be most miffed to lose it to someone else, stay at the company, but not get much to do, when others that had been under-performing kept their regular roles. i also know that people that are young, people that are living in a foreign country, and people who dont start out with more natural security than others,would be more susceptible to drops in confidence. I imagine Sam Allardyce knows these things too, as do i imagine Bobby Robson does, both have been often talked about as excellent man managers, as for Roeder, its never been one of his strong points as far as i'm aware, but feel free to enlighten me. and we also know of plenty young players who have shined for 1 season the burned away. Fair enough, and it's possible (though very unlikely IMO) N'Zogbia is one of them. But he should at least get a chance to replicate his form, no? Spot should have been his to lose tbh, and bringing in Duff just took it off him very unfairly.

Cause! Can ign ones!

Taking up poker are we? Predictive text strikes!

He bought a big name player who was clearly going to be first choice (numerous interviews alluded to the need to protect N'Zogbia from playing a lot of games) regardless of form to take N'Zogbia's place, despite N'Zogbia being our best player the previous season. Meanwhile the other wasters who N'Zogbia had carried at times in the season kept their places. Roeder also went out of his way to take the piss out of N'Zogbia's best mate at the club, Boumsong, in public interviews. Woeful man management at its absolute finest. regardless of form ? even the most hard bitten of n'zogs fans will admit that last season he was our 3rd best left midfielder behind duff (who was poor) and milner who eclipsed them both. as for boumsong , i don't really recall him taking the piss but no doubt there many on here who'd think that was the least he deserved. n'zog last season got what his performances deserved and i'm very pleased he's found his previous seasons form Not saying he played well last season, obviously he didn't. Point was more that Roeder almost went out of his way to make it difficult for N'Zogbia, bringing in a big reputation player in to compete with him for his spot. Ideally the player should get his head down and get on with it, but it's simply not the case in today's game. A talent like N'Zogbia knows he'll get better chances elsewhere, it's up to the manager to keep them happy and Roeder spectaculalrly failed to do that with our best young player. read it again and see how silly it is. Bolded a bit for you to re-read myself, if we're going to be patronising about things. he's played centre mid a couple of times to no great success, who has he carried on the left, if your talking babayaro you have a point but that has nowt to do with who should play left midfield where n'zog never carried duff or milner I mean that he carried the rest of the team in terms of creating chances for us, yet Roeder decided N'Zogbia was the person who should be replaced in the team rather than any of our s*** defenders or ineffective midfielders. That seem fair or in the least bit intelligent to you? probably not but it really comes down to the player facing competition for a spot in the team and not doing it...would you say the same if owens head went down and he played s*** cos we'd signed martins? no you'd criticise him if he played s*** which is right as i have done last season with n'zogbia Not really the same thing at all as Owen is a proven top player whereas N'Zogbia is still a young prospect (one who needs games to develop might I add). But yeah, if Owen had been on fire for a season and was probably our best player and we went out and bought someone else to take his place while ignoring other crucial needs in the team I'd not exactly blame him for being a bit pissy tbh. Do you genuinely think Roeder was ever going to choose between Zoggy and Duff based on merit last season?