Mick

Sorry like - as a defender you are supposed to take control of the situation, and for the first goal he didn't. If the nudge by Williamson was enough to put him off then he shouldn't be anywhere near a football pitch. I would understand being caught up the field for the second later in the game, but he'd just been exposed one minute before by the same player that he left unmarked and was punished for it. When you conced a soft goal like the first thing you go is try to regroup, not get yourself into a position that you have no hope of actually doing your primary task. Do you think Perch should have walked through Williamson who was between Perch and the ball? I agree Perch was too far forward for the second goal but that's the way it is, he was trying to get forward rightly because we had the ball. I didn't expect Barton to give it away so I don't see why I should expect Perch to think anything other than that we were going to be moving forward. Barton gave the ball away when we should have been going away from our goal and Williamson didn't deal with it. How was Perch exposed one minute before the 2nd goal?

Goal 1 - Perch was behind N'Zogbia and Williamson, allowing N'Zogbia to have a run at the blindsided defender and head the ball in the net. Goal 2 - Perch was nowher f***ing near the man he should have been taking care of one f***ing minute after he's just f***ing scored and was in the f***ing clear when he recieved the f***ing ball. Give over man, Perch was behind N'Zogbia and Williamson was in front where he should have been until he stumbled into Perch. As for the second, Perch was too far forward as he often was when he was trying to defend and make up for us not having a winger. Barton gave the ball away and Williamson didn't block the shot while Perch was still trying to get back.

Against Sunderland?

What a goal.

Perch had no part in either goal.

Agreed, he'll be really up for it.

I've said Perch was poor, I've said Guthrie was poor in a position which he should never play in. Lovenkrands was poor, Williamson was iffy and Krulls kicking was terrible, nobody was more responsible for a Wigan goal than Barton. If you have a look you'll see that I haven't really lambasted him, I've just said what I saw today and pointed out that he deserves stick for what he did.

Sorry you did mention that you were on about Nolan and Routledge over the course of the season so far. As for Butt, I wasn't trying to shoehorn Butt into the same breath as Barton but a bollock dropped by one is as bad as one dropped by the other, even if it's not done as regularly. Barton was pissing about with the ball today when he gave it away, he fell asleep in an area that Nicky Butt did on many occasions with the same end result which shouldn’t be over-looked, he's getting stick for it and so he should.

You didn't say that you were talking about the first eight games and it was in a match thread. The reference about Nicky Butt was justified, if it's good enoough for him to get stick for an assist to the opposition then it's good enough for Barton to get the same.

I went for it, I couldn't go for either of the other two because I like him and he hasn't lost me yet.

Can you add "Don't Know."

Any player who gives the ball to the opposition that leads to a goal deserves stick, Nicky Butt did the same thing and was slaughtered for it.

If he is then I haven't seen it.

Simpson. I just hope that Steve Taylor gets back soon because I see very little between Perch, Simpson or Ryan Taylor.

Coloccini, I think that's about it.

Anyway, 3-1 to us because I think our big players will make a difference and drive us on. I hope that Bent plays on Monday and does his hamstring.

I'd put my money on Guthrie in the middle to find a team mate more often than barton.

Our problem at the minute is that no two look as if they've got goals in them. If Shola could play a full 90 minutes like he played when he came on today then I’d play him, I just don’t think he can do it and if he's not then we're under pressure as he'll offer nothing.

Agreed about Guthrie and Barton, Guthrie will play well more often than Barton even if he has to come off later in the game.

Shola is a lazy bastard when he starts, I'd rather see him making an impact like he did today, he rarely does than when starting.

Agreed, I think its more a must not lose than a must win.

Have Shola and Carroll played well together when they've started?

His day doesn't come very often, I hope we look to upgrade him at the end of the season because he's done nothing here.

I'd rather see Coloccini alongside Campbell if I had the choice.

We can adapt, we just have to put the right player in the right position.