Mick

I'd rather start winning regardless of who picks the team, even if it means keeping Kinnear longer than we would by dropping points.

In the first half Geremi and Guthrie ran the centre of midfield and they were well backed up behind then by Bassong and Coloccini who both played the ball around well. In the second half we had to make 1 change when Guthrie was injured, instead of bringing on Cacapa to take the place of Guthrie we had a game of musical chairs with Taylor going to the right side of defence, Beye moving to the wing and Gutierrez going into the middle. Instead of 1 player having to come to terms with how we were playing we had 3 players who were in different positions to the first half and it also effected others around them who hadn't a clue what was going on. A solid pairing in the middle of our defence turned to shit because the players around them had totally changed. That is down to what Kinnear did at half time and he later compounded that by taking off our only player which worried them over the half way line, they no longer had anything to worry about Martins so they pushed further up the field so could get at our defence quicker.

The whole team were uncomfortable in the second half, I can't see any point in having a go at one player.

No, the players are not afraid to win games, the manager screwed up and that is the reason we didn't win yesterday. He totally changed the shape of a team who had been comfortably controlling the game for 45 minutes through moving 3 players to get around 1 player having to go off. I can't see the point in looking for any other reason than that. Taking off Martins was also another balls up and it's one that has been repeated too often without Kinnear learning from his mistake.

I agree, for the first time under Kinnear I thought we were a football team in the first half, the second half was a reality check.

I'm not sure about putting tin hat on, maybe you should take your tin glasses off. Our first half performance yesterday was very good, we lost the 2 points when the manager screwed up. Putting Shola on wouldn't have changed our second half performance, it probably would have changed the first though.

He wasn't as bad as the other Dave is saying, at least I don't think so.

I think he defended OK but it looked as if 50% of his passes went to the opposition.

I'm currently on 1 since the thread was started but I'm more concerned tonight about the manager than the players so I'm thinking about going somewhere from 4 to 6.

Riley probably said "catch it" then whispered "and I'll give them a free kick."

The squad was good enough to win, the manager wasn't and that's down to a few people.

It was like Roeder all over again, we played well when the team picked itself, it turned to shit through intervention from the manager who couldn't get it right. Actually, it was a mixture of Souness and Roeder.

You went to the cinema, why?

Kinnear played as much a part in the result as the lack of squad depth, possibly more.

Hanley isn't too bad, the others are horrible.

If Guthrie stayed on we would have won and probably doubled our goals tally.

Five total shit holes if we're going for accuracy.

Stoke is a City stuck in a time warp and the fans are no different.

I closed my browser down when it slowed as I thought it was just me.

After 15 minute of the second half I thought Beye had gone off and was looking for Guthrie, I even counted our players to make sure we had 11 players on the field at one stage.

He seemed to rub his ear, I think he'd run that one off.

I hope Social Services don't find out, they shouldn't as we left the house in civies and got changed on the way.

I took two of my kids.