dcmk

Indeed when he goes to a team that are creating three times the number of chances we are, and he is scoring 3 times as many goals. We will realise what we had.

A new record. 3 games.

Sad thing is, in 2/3 years time if we dont come back up into the Premier League we would be creating threads titled "Does anyone remember.." and in it we would be talking about when we had top international players like Owen, Argentine internationals all that crap, romanticizing the past like we always do.

Why?

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4. put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players. All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show. You think finishing is 30 yard shots? I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control. Not speculative shots. Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him. yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them. obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good. When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then? Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances? yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them. Your argument is a mess. Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games. Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle. If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring?? Its fine spouting statistics mate, but when was the last time Owen scored? How many games ago? He has had about 1 shot in the last 5 appearances? Newcastle team don't create much, if you aint noticed. He is part of that team if you hadn't noticed. He needs to do more in the games imo. He damn near makes himself invisible when he wants to. Yes I know that strikers need feeding but they have to make their own chances too. If Owen cannot do that, and depends that much on the rest of the team for all his chances then in a relagation battle we cannot afford to carry him. Honestly not disputing that. Imo needs to be dropped, as midfield is abysmal. Just defending his ability in front of goal.

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4. put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players. All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show. You think finishing is 30 yard shots? I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control. Not speculative shots. Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him. yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them. obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good. When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then? Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances? yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them. Your argument is a mess. Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games. Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle. If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring?? Its fine spouting statistics mate, but when was the last time Owen scored? How many games ago? He has had about 1 shot in the last 5 appearances? Newcastle team don't create much, if you aint noticed.

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4. put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players. All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show. You think finishing is 30 yard shots? I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control. Not speculative shots. Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him. yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them. obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good. I compared those stats because it proves that when Owen does have chances he scores them. Do you think Rooney having over 10 shots to 1 goal makes him better at finishing? Why does he take these speculative shots?! when its obviously not working, that's a terrible stat. Do you think that is a good feature of his game? theoretically rooney is a better finisher. think about all the different ways a player can score, rooney can probably pull all of them off, owen can maybe score in two or three different ways. rooney's shots are also more accurate and more powerful than owen's. any stats that show owen's goalscoring record are the result of his superior anticipation, movement and positioning in the box, those are his stand-out elements, not the actual finishing itself. Rooney has a better technique, more creative brain, more flair. Thats the strengths of his game. I personally would trust Owen to get on the end of a cross or find space in opposition box and put the ball past the keeper. At least hit the target. Given a chance.

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4. put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players. All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show. You think finishing is 30 yard shots? I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control. Not speculative shots. Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him. yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them. obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good. When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then? Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances? yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them. Your argument is a mess. Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games. Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle. If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring??

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4. put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players. All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show. You think finishing is 30 yard shots? I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control. Not speculative shots. Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him. yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them. obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good. I compared those stats because it proves that when Owen does have chances he scores them. Do you think Rooney having over 10 shots to 1 goal makes him better at finishing? Why does he take these speculative shots?! when its obviously not working, that's a terrible stat. Do you think that is a good feature of his game?

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4. put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players. All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show. You think finishing is 30 yard shots? I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control. Not speculative shots. Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him. yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them. obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good. When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then? Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances?

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4. put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players. All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show. You think finishing is 30 yard shots? I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control. Not speculative shots. Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him.

Not sure if this counts as a bite, but exactly how much have you seen of those players? Must be quite a lot to be writing them all off already. I think it was more the comparison of them and Jenas and others Nixon didn't compare them though. Yee

I dont want to start new topic but as we are discussing old players here.. What was Souness record like before the whole Bellamy incident? I remember being ok, after that it got worse and worse. Didn't it start ok though?

Does the first guy become a boot cleaner at Arsenal? When his ratio dwindles to 1 in 13 yes he does and only on a temporary deal byt he way. 1 chance in 7/8 games maybe. Suggests the problem is more in midfield tbh.

Not sure if this counts as a bite, but exactly how much have you seen of those players? Must be quite a lot to be writing them all off already. I think it was more the comparison of them and Jenas and others

Does the first guy become a boot cleaner at Arsenal?

Yes, Coloccini had a dip in form, didn't he? And he was dropped for Edgar at Stoke. Ameobi had a s*** game at Stoke and he hasn't figured since, wasn't even on voyage yesterday. Do you see why people don't agree? Owen is still living off that late-season surge under Keegan. It's fair enough to say players have a dip in form - but we can't afford to accomodate it at the moment. We're on a knife edge and can't afford to carry passengers. I agree with you that he isn't finished btw, just find it baffling how you think he'll find some form. He won't, not this season. Colocinnis dip lasted the whole season, yesterdays performance was the first time i thought he looked half decent. The only time ive ever seen him win an actual header also, i was amazed. Ameobi consistantly got the ball, his control was just woeful....we should have been playing to his strengths for a lad that size. He doesnt have any strengths being the problem. Yesterday for the first time we started playing more to owens, fair enough he had a chance and missed it, i still think we give him that again hes more likely to put it in that anyone else. I wouldnt put Carroll, Viduka, Martins over him in that 1 on 1 with the keeper even after yesterday. Owens finishing is of higher quality, hes shown that before. He still more likely to come up with the finish. I agree with others that he needs to be given more chances to do this, but not because he'll never score unless he has endless chances.....just because it'll help him get his efficency back. His composure. Theres no way for a striker to have composure in a situation where your sides in a relegation position 4 games from the end & you have the 1 chance out of 9 games where you could single handedly change your sides predicament. Far far to much pressure there, no human would remain composed....as all of our strikers demonstrated yesterday. Maybe it wont be enough, i wish to f*** it was & we'll have to see. He'll never replace Owen with someone else & i dont blame him. I generally agree with this. at your view of Collocini's performances btw

Nixon - Dyer, Bellamy, Woodgate, Jenas -- these players were all established first team members, vital ones too. Jenas was Forrest's captain at a stupid age, Woodgate was fan favourite, other two established at club International under XX level. Comparison between the new group and them is nonsense.

A top finisher is someone who can put the ball in the back of the net in a variety of ways. The more ways a player is able to do this consistently the more dangerous they are and the more of an accomplished striker this person is. Perfect example Alan Shearer. Owen right now is only capable of occassionally putting away chances in the box. Not a top finisher. So when people were getting on about Arsenal needing a goal scorer in recent years, you didnt agree. You thought their line up + Bendtner, Diaby were the answer? They didnt miss a player like Owen who comes a live when the ball is in the box. When ball gets crossed through six yard noone is ever there for them, everyone is outside the box. Thats good awareness/intelligence to you?.. not getting on the end of chances? That makes you a good finisher?? Arsenal's best finisher is Eduardo. Scores these poacher goals you talk about Owen scoring but will also fire one in from outside the box if you give him space, and he will do this with either foot. He will also score with Headers. He will also get you assists. he will go past people and open up defences. he will contribute to general play. I just don't know what else to say really. Arsenal generally do not have a problem scoring goals when all of their strikers have been fit to answer your question more directly. In the occassional games when they are facing teams who have 12 people in their box they do come unstuck but you are overstating these instances greatly. Nope. Fulham Hull Fenerbahce Villa Sunderland x2(lost one didnt they?) Stoke all of top of my head.

Very good post. Yes you can say in an ideal world Owen would score goals under the conditions youhave spoken about and this may well be the case. However, my argument is that this type of striker in today's game is just not good enough and will not be accomodated by any of the top teams. Way too one dimensional. You never take such a player as Owen over any of those Arsenal strikers who will all score just as many goals as Owen in a greater variety of ways and will also throw in an abundance of assists also and a greater contribution tot he teams play. I'm stopping this, you have completely changed argument now. Hopefully it because you realized it was wrong in the first place.

A top finisher is someone who can put the ball in the back of the net in a variety of ways. The more ways a player is able to do this consistently the more dangerous they are and the more of an accomplished striker this person is. Perfect example Alan Shearer. Owen right now is only capable of occassionally putting away chances in the box. Not a top finisher. So when people were getting on about Arsenal needing a goal scorer in recent years, you didnt agree. You thought their line up + Bendtner, Diaby were the answer? They didnt miss a player like Owen who comes a live when the ball is in the box. When ball gets crossed through six yard noone is ever there for them, everyone is outside the box. Thats good awareness/intelligence to you?.. not getting on the end of chances? That makes you a good finisher??

So you don't understand then? And you know what that's okay. You are entitled not to. I will end with this ... it is not intelligent to only attempt shots inside the box if you claim to be a top striker. It is down right incompetent and quite moronic. Particularly in a team that will hardly ever provide these opportunities. Your the guy who said we 'blatantly' had 2 players signed on transfer day, hiding them from the camera's. You made a joke out of yourself that day too.

Kaka do you think finishing is 30 yard shots? Imo its composure, technique, awareness, intelligence, ball control.

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. owen's goal record in the league this season is going to be something like 7 goals in 30 games, that's a shocking statitistic and look at the teams he's scored against He has score 10 or 11, and dont think he has played 30 games for us this year. How many were sub appearances. I been proving to you, with stats, links everything. Given a chance will put it away more than most in the league, proved that with the supposedly 'light years ahead with finishing' van Persie/Adebayor records for the year. What are you arguing? Put Micheal Owen in a team create chances for him - he aint had many. He has had 50, van Persie 180 shots. I love your passion dude but it's badly misplaced. You will find that in general the best strikers and goal scorers take a hell of a lot of shots and miss a hell of a lot also but ultimately score the most. FFS it all started with you! You said Arsenal dont need someone like Owen in the side, when in fact they dont have a striker in the 6 yard box, they miss a fuckload of chances, they draw 0-0 when dominate games soo many times recent seasons, have lost games they dominated. Then you said outright lie that van Persie, Adebayor, BENDTNER, DIABY was more clinical as a striker. When proving they miss a "HELL OF A LOT" (your words) and Owen does in fact score more from LESS chances he gets. You try to shift it onto general play. I was only arguing about the word you used 'finishing'. Owen finishes more chances. Fact. Okay lets stick strictly to clinical finishing. Everytime Owen misses he misses from 5 yards out when he is one on one with the goalie. These are the only times he shoots. When the Arsenal strikers miss chances they miss from 30 yards, 20 yards 10 yards etc however they test the goalie and force saves also and they also occassionally score from these distances too. If these strikers also only limited themselves to waiting in the box to score from 5 yards and nothing else (like Owen does!) then they would score with a much better ratio than Owen. Do you understand? Seriously your annoying the piss out of me. How many times can i say it! Owen is a different kind of striker to them. He IS in the 6 yard box when they cross into the box and no one is ever there. Your right they shoot from everywhere. He has intelligence, off the ball movement in the penalty area. Knows where the goal is, scores 1 in every 2 games his whole career. Given the chance he will score. How many games have Arsenal dominated and barely scored as tried walk it into the net. Over the last seasons. Lots! You said Owen would be a boot cleaner at Arsenal, well imo as they create so many chances = He will be an ASSET to them. He thrives on service Understand? How it started. An unbelievable statement! Eduardo is everything Owen was and more. Adebayor, Van Persie, Carlos Vela and even Bendtner are far more useful. The likes of Arshavin, Nasri and even Diaby can play as second strikers also. Unless they are looking for a boot cleaner Owen need not apply. Arsenal create chances left, right and center. How many times have ALL the players you have listed tried to walk into into the net and either draw or not even score at all! Owen would be a great addition, imo more clinical than all those strikers, certainly more intelligent. A crap side, and a forward who relies on service isnt going to make him look good. A good side + confidence and his ability in front of goal, great match-up for him. Jeeeeeeeeeeeesus Lord please have mercy on this man for the blasphemy he has spoketh! Owen more clinical than who? What football do you watch? Are you seriously joking? Owen whose shots generate less power than a newborn's would? Owen who cannot shoot from outside the box? Owen who cannot shoot with his left foot? Who can no longer go past anyone? Who can no longer finish one on one with the goalie? Owen is now a midget striker who occassionally scores headers from 5 yards or less or tap ins from 5 yards from less. 95% of his goals come this way. Outside of these he does absolutely nothing else in general play. How dare you compare this player to Eduardo, Adebayor, Van Persie, Arshavin, Vela etc. How dare you man! I am flabbergasted.