dcmk

So who has been performing well in our team since 2005/2006 season, in attacking sense? what does this have to go with Owen? Martins has had a tough season but did very well in the previous 2 when he was on the pitch. Surely you're not using the performances of players like Shola Ameobi and Damien Duff to vindicate Owen Being a striker who relies on service and movement in the box, which the ball never gets to, he can't be expected to hit the net. So on that basis put him in a Liverpool side and he will become a 1 goal in 2 game striker. So i will use the players around him to vindicate him. Jonas has 2 assists i think all season, people on here believe he has been a good signing.

So who has been performing well in our team since 2005/2006 season, in attacking sense?

However you can't prove that, Owen will get more goals than RVP if he was in the Arsenal team im sure. They will carry him lengthy periods sure, but will get more goals. this is the same Owen who never managed 20 premiership goals, even at his best 8 years ago over 1 goal every 2 games for Liverpool. 18 twice, 19 twice. His Europe record looks pretty good, England too Not that long ago actually, he hit 7 goals in 11, 2005. His goals/games ratio at Newcastle isn't that bad despite your belief. Just under 1 in 2 in time here.

However you can't prove that, Owen will get more goals than RVP if he was in the Arsenal team im sure. They will carry him lengthy periods sure, but will get more goals. this is the same Owen who never managed 20 premiership goals, even at his best 8 years ago over 1 goal every 2 games for Liverpool. 18 twice, 19 twice. His Europe record looks pretty good, England too

However you can't prove that, Owen will get more goals than RVP if he was in the Arsenal team im sure. They will carry him lengthy periods sure, but will get more goals.

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4. put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players. All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show. You think finishing is 30 yard shots? I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control. Not speculative shots. Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him. yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them. obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good. When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then? Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances? yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them. Your argument is a mess. Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games. Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle. If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring?? yes, there is more to goal scoring than finishing. this argument has always been that owen is not particularly clinical or a good finisher. his strengths are what ive listed time and time again. that is why he is (or was) a good goalscorer. as a finisher he is very limited and even the one or two things he used to be good at have been very shoddy in the past season. A finisher - clue is in the name - finishes the chances created by the team. He does this, by getting on the end of what is created in and around the area, and when he gets on the end of these he is scoring goals. Like a good goalscorer does. How you can not call him a good finisher (of chances) when i have been proving with stuff from this season and over his career when he gets opportunities he puts them away, more consistently(!) than people who are supposedly better at it then him. Finishing isnt about long range shots at all. If i was manager of Rooney and i got told he scores 1 in every 10 shots, be estatic! but apparently true. Finishes alot of moves that boy. using your own definition of finishing completely rubbishes the basis of your entire argument, those shots to goals stats don't show 'finishing' as you understand it, they show all shots, whether they are 'finishes' or not, 30 yarders, lobs, volleys, headers. everything. as i said, you're clueless as to what those stats show and how to read them for meaning. How does it rubbish my argument? It started off with shots on target to goals scored. From his attempts to goals, it showed had better rate than the players he seemingly weren't more clinical than him. How you define finishing is completely wrong imo. What those players have to their game is better technique but are not better strikers instincts of a natural born finisher. Because you are simply focusing on 'finishing' as you understand it and then applying statistics which do not show 'finishing' but all shots. quite simple. not once have you responded to the numerous points raised, or tried to put the stats into context, or tried to look beyond them and compare in-game situations. think about birmingham away last season, owen has a chance that he misses cos his finishing is not great, but scores another because his anticipation meant he got to the rebound before any defender did, leaving him with a simple tap in that doesnt need good finishing to score. what stands out in that match then is not his finishing but things like movement, anticipation and positioning, his real stand out qualities. Using shots to goals is the only way you can compare him to other players - who i dont see week in week out. I know the stats aren't the fairest way to judge but its - you have to admit - the only way we can have a rough idea. I know Owens game is limited, never denied that- im one of the people who wouldnt mind seeing him dropped, but the stick he gets on here, notably Kaka saying Diaby, Bendtner etc are all better more effecient strikers or something. IS utter, utter laughable.

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4. put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players. All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show. You think finishing is 30 yard shots? I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control. Not speculative shots. Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him. yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them. obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good. When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then? Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances? yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them. Your argument is a mess. Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games. Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle. If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring?? yes, there is more to goal scoring than finishing. this argument has always been that owen is not particularly clinical or a good finisher. his strengths are what ive listed time and time again. that is why he is (or was) a good goalscorer. as a finisher he is very limited and even the one or two things he used to be good at have been very shoddy in the past season. A finisher - clue is in the name - finishes the chances created by the team. He does this, by getting on the end of what is created in and around the area, and when he gets on the end of these he is scoring goals. Like a good goalscorer does. How you can not call him a good finisher (of chances) when i have been proving with stuff from this season and over his career when he gets opportunities he puts them away, more consistently(!) than people who are supposedly better at it then him. Finishing isnt about long range shots at all. If i was manager of Rooney and i got told he scores 1 in every 10 shots, be estatic! but apparently true. Finishes alot of moves that boy. using your own definition of finishing completely rubbishes the basis of your entire argument, those shots to goals stats don't show 'finishing' as you understand it, they show all shots, whether they are 'finishes' or not, 30 yarders, lobs, volleys, headers. everything. as i said, you're clueless as to what those stats show and how to read them for meaning. How does it rubbish my argument? It started off with shots on target to goals scored. From his attempts to goals, it showed had better rate than the players he seemingly weren't more clinical than him. How you define finishing is completely wrong imo. What those players have to their game is better technique but are not better strikers instincts of a natural born finisher.

i have expectations of where we should be. I never believe a player would 'walk to the club' because sick of playing for a little shit club, they have been playing with all their lives. If that's what you mean. Wouldn't go around and say we are the 'worlds best fans' either.

We are Newcastle and we don't care about a few millions more or less. You are Bolton and counting every penny. Newcastle fan in assuming new midfielder will be better than Nicky Butt shocker. Turns out the Bolton fan was spot on, good for him. I hate to say it but as Blefuscu implies, you seem to base your opinion of your fellow fans on the bilge Sky Sports News and the Sun produce. No, see that's quite arrogant to even suggest that. I read the forum, just gave you guys quotes from 2 threads that personally read through at the time. Now its all from Sky Sports news. Greeeat. were those quotes the majority view. look through any clubs forums and you'll see similar. We are Newcastle and we don't care about a few millions more or less. You are Bolton and counting every penny. Newcastle fan in assuming new midfielder will be better than Nicky Butt shocker. Turns out the Bolton fan was spot on, good for him. I hate to say it but as Blefuscu implies, you seem to base your opinion of your fellow fans on the bilge Sky Sports News and the Sun produce. No, see that's quite arrogant to even suggest that. I read the forum, just gave you guys quotes from 2 threads that personally read through at the time. Now its all from Sky Sports news. Greeeat. were those quotes the majority view. look through any clubs forums and you'll see similar. I wouldn't know about that, i am just offering an opinion as to why all of England think we are delusional. The exact same way that we would call Spurs,Man City and the mackem lot it follows then that every clubs fans are delusional. What, you took 3 examples i have gave you and have managed to say all the majority of football supporters from each individual club are delusional. I guess Southampton fans would say so.

We are Newcastle and we don't care about a few millions more or less. You are Bolton and counting every penny. Newcastle fan in assuming new midfielder will be better than Nicky Butt shocker. Turns out the Bolton fan was spot on, good for him. I hate to say it but as Blefuscu implies, you seem to base your opinion of your fellow fans on the bilge Sky Sports News and the Sun produce. No, see that's quite arrogant to even suggest that. I read the forum, just gave you guys quotes from 2 threads that personally read through at the time. Now its all from Sky Sports news. Greeeat. So you read 2 threads, and concluded the ALL Newcastle fans are delusion, nice one! Jesus wept, i gave you two known very recent examples. Did i say i have only read 2 threads? Almost proved my point. That post had no arrogance to it at all.

We are Newcastle and we don't care about a few millions more or less. You are Bolton and counting every penny. Newcastle fan in assuming new midfielder will be better than Nicky Butt shocker. Turns out the Bolton fan was spot on, good for him. I hate to say it but as Blefuscu implies, you seem to base your opinion of your fellow fans on the bilge Sky Sports News and the Sun produce. No, see that's quite arrogant to even suggest that. I read the forum, just gave you guys quotes from 2 threads that personally read through at the time. Now its all from Sky Sports news. Greeeat. were those quotes the majority view. look through any clubs forums and you'll see similar. We are Newcastle and we don't care about a few millions more or less. You are Bolton and counting every penny. Newcastle fan in assuming new midfielder will be better than Nicky Butt shocker. Turns out the Bolton fan was spot on, good for him. I hate to say it but as Blefuscu implies, you seem to base your opinion of your fellow fans on the bilge Sky Sports News and the Sun produce. No, see that's quite arrogant to even suggest that. I read the forum, just gave you guys quotes from 2 threads that personally read through at the time. Now its all from Sky Sports news. Greeeat. were those quotes the majority view. look through any clubs forums and you'll see similar. I wouldn't know about that, i am just offering an opinion as to why all of England think we are delusional. The exact same way that we would call Spurs,Man City and the mackem lot

We are Newcastle and we don't care about a few millions more or less. You are Bolton and counting every penny. Newcastle fan in assuming new midfielder will be better than Nicky Butt shocker. Turns out the Bolton fan was spot on, good for him. I hate to say it but as Blefuscu implies, you seem to base your opinion of your fellow fans on the bilge Sky Sports News and the Sun produce. No, see that's quite arrogant to even suggest that. I read the forum, just gave you guys quotes from 2 threads that personally read through at the time. Now its all from Sky Sports news. Greeeat.

Expectancy and having standards i'm all with, should be hoping for Europe. We don't have a divine right to be there though. That's mainly the problem i think most fans around England see and dislike - in answer to the thread. Your question, Iwould hope we come back straight away, but i won't be in the pre-match thread saying 'piece of piss 3-0' when they are only say 2 places below us.

We are Newcastle and we don't care about a few millions more or less. You are Bolton and counting every penny.

I think we set ourselves up for being laughed at with our opinion of the club, and most of England then think we are delusional from this. It can't be us though, can it? Must be them lying

When was this? Pre-match thread there was alot of .. 'if we cant beat Stoke we deserve to be down' 'they are a shocking side' 'look at their midfield :lol' stuff like that, was littered with similar quotes Quotes like that are spot on, and they're different to just expecting us to show up and win. They're Stoke City, not Real f***ing Madrid. In any case, I was at that match and we were f***ing abysmal considering it was a 'must win' game. If we'd put in anything like the performance to match these players' wages and reputations we would have beaten them. When we have been worse than them all season, they have been beating top teams there too. Don't you think it's a bit arrogant?

When was this? Pre-match thread there was alot of .. 'if we cant beat Stoke we deserve to be down' 'they are a shocking side' 'look at their midfield :lol' stuff like that, was littered with similar quotes

You are so wrong. Newcastle fans are despised and hated and perceived as being arrogant, nationwide. Have a butchers at ANY teams football forums and letters pages on the internet and you will see this. (Even the Chester City forum has a thread where their fans are taking the piss out of us!) Agree with Blefescu about the media and rent-a-mongs having a lot to do with this. Wally McFool is spot on. Those who dont think that we are universally hated really need to actually have a look at what is written about us on other message boards. It goes far beyond just wanting a big club to go down. Anti-Newcastle abuse. There's no other words for it. NO ONE LIKES US.... WE DON'T CARE!!! Thats not true if Willy has been going around other clubs message boards, wanting to see everyone's opinion on us

No one hates us, we just get laughed at because we have alot of fans that are super delusion. We have been laughing at Spurs fans for years when they convince themselves they are 'gonna break the top 4 this year', i don't hate that club but their fans make me almost. As its such a stupid statement alot of variables in a season. Exactly same case for us. Fans at other clubs are sick to death with the attitude from our lot that we are a 'big club' and that their players would love to play in front of 52,000. I remember we signed Nolan in January and some Bolton lads came onto the board saying he ain't had a good game for 2 years and the responses to them was like 'because sick of playing for a shitty club', ignoring their opinion and just calling them bitter. Also the Stoke game, a lot of people on this board just thought players can show up and win.. despite their home record. Its disrespectful to them and now they are rightly laughing at us. It's not the media by the way, lets not get onto conspiracy theories again! The reason why so much news about us, is because its so unexpected and everyone is watching to see if we can somehow survive.

..we can hope.

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4. put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players. All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show. You think finishing is 30 yard shots? I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control. Not speculative shots. Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him. yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them. obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good. When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then? Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances? yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them. Your argument is a mess. Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games. Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle. If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring?? yes, there is more to goal scoring than finishing. this argument has always been that owen is not particularly clinical or a good finisher. his strengths are what ive listed time and time again. that is why he is (or was) a good goalscorer. as a finisher he is very limited and even the one or two things he used to be good at have been very shoddy in the past season. A finisher - clue is in the name - finishes the chances created by the team. He does this, by getting on the end of what is created in and around the area, and when he gets on the end of these he is scoring goals. Like a good goalscorer does. How you can not call him a good finisher (of chances) when i have been proving with stuff from this season and over his career when he gets opportunities he puts them away, more consistently(!) than people who are supposedly better at it then him. Finishing isnt about long range shots at all. If i was manager of Rooney and i got told he scores 1 in every 10 shots, be estatic! but apparently true. Finishes alot of moves that boy. Makes you wonder why Man U didn't buy Owen rather than sign the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov. Fergie obviously hasn't got a clue. They all can/have score, create, work rate, stand out qualities.

Thinking about it also, if Owen is completely incapable of playing for a big European team, how can Inzaghi still be doing what he dooes, when he has the exact same limitations as a player, Owen being more intelligent as well imo.

What? That post is idiotic. Rooney over 10 shots to 1 goal, thats terrible. I suppose you think stats are rubbish when you look at something like 14 goals in 38 games for example. stats are meaningless without a context. the fact you reckon Rooney and Ronaldo must have worse finishing because "stats" tell you so says everything about your argument. it's laughable. you havent addressed these points 1/ that owen's goals are and have always been more about his movement, positioning and anticipation then about his finishing 2/ that other players take more speculative shots which is why they miss more 3/ that Owen cannot take these kind of speculative shots because his actual finishing (the pure act of the boot hitting the ball) is so poor and 4/ that even though the only shots Owen is able to take are those put on a plate for him, he still misses 3 out of 4. put all that stuff about stats and what players were like 5 years ago out of your mind, focus on pure finishing, the moment when the player strikes the ball with the aim of scoring, think about comparing how different players would do in that one distilled moment. for instance, 30 yards out, a gap presents itself, the keeper is poorly placed to the right of the goal. who will best be able to smash the ball home with incredible power and accuracy from that distance? Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie? Or michael owen. Think about players through on goal, a big striker breathing down their neck, the keeper swiftly rushing out. Who will finish more calmly and place it most accurately? Arshavin, Berbatov, Eduardo? Or Michael Owen? Think about a poor cross that loops over a player's head so that they have to turnin mid air and aim a blind volley or overhead kick at goal. who is more likely to pull off this difficult attempt - Adebayor, Tevez, Anelka, Drogba? Or michael owen? let's face it he is nowhere near the class of those players. All of your attempts to argue the point have tried to ignore actual explanations and descriptions of player's finishing. all youre doing is parroting statistics without the slightest understanding of what those statistics show. You think finishing is 30 yard shots? I view it as composure, awareness, anticipation, intelligence, shot accurracy, ball control. Not speculative shots. Natural born finisher gets on the end of chances just through intelligence and anticipation of whats going on around him. yes, that is part of it. if you don't think taking speculative shots is finishing then why are you comparing Owen's 'shots on goal' stats with the 'shots on the goal' stats of players like RVP or Rooney? Because i can guarantee that most of their shots are opportunistic, ie, the kind of shooting that Owen is incapable of trying. as i said, youre clueless about what those actual stats represent and how to contextualise them. obviously you have a different idea of what finishing is, i think it is the actual act of trying to score, not the stuff that comes before it like making space for the shot, making runs behind defenders, peeling ahead of your marker to get to the near post or dropping away to the back post and so on. finishing is what happens after that and, for owen, his finishing isnt particularly good. When Owen gets a chance, he is wasteful then? Because he doesn't shoot from distance that make him poor at finishing off chances? yes, it limits the kinds of chances he can realistically score from. he is nowhere near being the sort of clinical finisher a la Crespo who can get away with not doing much in general play because his finishing is so good he can score from any kind of half chance. Owen's finishing is so average that he only bothers to try when its laid out on a plate and even then, he's not that good. he still has some top class elements to his game but without service and due to his detoriating body he is not having a chance to capitalise on them. Your argument is a mess. Ok we understand that Owen can only score when its presented 'on a plate', yet he scores every 1 in 2 games. Just under 1 in 2 for Newcastle. If its easy for a striker to do this, why isnt there many players with a better ratio? Is it maybe because there is more to goal scoring?? yes, there is more to goal scoring than finishing. this argument has always been that owen is not particularly clinical or a good finisher. his strengths are what ive listed time and time again. that is why he is (or was) a good goalscorer. as a finisher he is very limited and even the one or two things he used to be good at have been very shoddy in the past season. A finisher - clue is in the name - finishes the chances created by the team. He does this, by getting on the end of what is created in and around the area, and when he gets on the end of these he is scoring goals. Like a good goalscorer does. How you can not call him a good finisher (of chances) when i have been proving with stuff from this season and over his career when he gets opportunities he puts them away, more consistently(!) than people who are supposedly better at it then him. Finishing isnt about long range shots at all. If i was manager of Rooney and i got told he scores 1 in every 10 shots, be estatic! but apparently true. Finishes alot of moves that boy.

Puyol reminds me of Collocini - crap hair and clumsy.

I read one a few years ago in 442 when he was still at Real, when apparently Guti said to him "Run, you fat f***!" during a game and Ronaldo responded by saying "I don't run, I score goals." Five minutes later Ronaldo had scored twice and turned the game on it's head. Ronaldo went up to Guti and said "Is that good enough for you?" Good service i bet.