Doug

The very nub of it all. Never mind tactics, skill, motivation and all the rest if you cant run for 90mins at this level, forget it.

Was it an away win at Anfield in our last relegation season. Mirandinha scored a pen at the Kop end then ran behind the goal kissing his badge and taunting the scousers.

It could it have something to do with the fact that the team does not have enough athletes in it to last the pace. Butt is one of the worst in this department BTW.

In our last relegation season we won away at Anfield I seem to recall

He will be ok for half hour first game back.

It doesnt matter how motivated you are. If you are too old and slow youve had it.

Can we please stop reffering to Fergusons spiteful moans as "mind games". It was invented by the press when he whinged about Leeds not trying as hard against us as they would against Man U, when it looked like we might win the league. An astonishingly pathetic utterance at the time. KK replied loudly and embarrassingly which was a shame. I wish we wouldnt mistake fergusons spite for cleverness. That was and still is an interpretation of the press.

Newcastle fans are the most loyal, please dont call them fickle or rubbish. Most people on here are pissed off that some players including Given were allowed to desert before the premiership season was saved. That is perfectly understandable.

You are going to cop it now for criticizing Shepherd.

This is the problem. At this level players seem to need 2 or 3 games to get up to peak match fitness. A luxury we dont seem to have at this stage of the season. Look how long it has taken Owen to come back. You just cant expect too much too soon as much as we need the big names back. Sadly we have players in the first team now signed on reputation who can never hit those levels of fitness again. I think thats why we are in the bottom 3.

We are certainly underdogs now for the upcoming game and the last 2 away wins were really unexpected if we are honest with ourselves. Beating them at home in the past was never a surprise mind. We regularly tonked 7 past them not so long ago

And one less body at the back where you're...strong? I think having anything other than 4 in defence will just screw up your chances, tbh. It's the players themselves IMO that need to prove their worth. it doesnt work like that though does it. Wing backs work the flank from top to bottom giving you 5 in defence and extra going forward so you always have a spare defender anyway. Top sides attack and defend as a unit, our problem all season has been lack of athletes to do this IMO

3 at the back could just be the tactic to get us a few points. Another body in midfield where we are weakest. Jonas for R.Taylor though please next time so we can have proper creative wingbacks in him and Duff.

duff/edgar in left back

Wrong. I have legs and I am s*** in midfield. we,re talking premier league not pub team. You have to have the full package, ie legs and not shit.

The support is there. People just want to see some regular winning results. Over 5 decades without even a domestic success should impact on any teams support you would think. What would Man U or Liverpool be drawing with that unenviable record I wonder.

Nolan was as slow as fuck against WBA aswell. Once again this thread hits at the root core of our seasons demise. Non athletes in the engine room of midfield.

We are at the nub of the problem here with this thread. At no time this season have we had athletes in the engine room of midfield who can dominate a game with box to box energy. Even teams we deride like Stoke or Hull are streets ahead of us in this key area of the game. Strong powerful runners with hunger, not has beens on fat contracts. Its a no brainer.

He was rock hard. A better description than dirty I think. Premier league centre halves dont come out with ballons on sticks to hit you with, they are the toughest of the lot.

We could do with one of theirs sending off.

Wishful thinking in the extreme. They are licking their lips at the shitstorm they can rake up over our demise. Delusions of grandeur about our own self importance would only make it worse for us if they were to pick up on this vibe. They have no integrity whatsoever and do not think beyond how many of their rags they can shift of tomorrows newstands. Hoping for help from the press. Talk about clutching at straws or what, God help us.

Got to feel for Hughton, he is an experienced international ex pro. doing his best, hamstrung by working with a weakened squad through crap transfer activity, nothing but negative vibes abound from so called "insiders", press and media with total shite about El Tel etc. Personally I think the players will be working with him as well as anyone under the circumstances Give him a break, its too late to send for a red adair type now.

Well written by Neil Ashton of the Mail. Does that mean fair though. The agenda of the piece is determined to tell us that he does not belong ,that he is now crap and that the coaches don't care for him. Just think about statements like "his popularity with his teammates is on the wane" (source?) "humiliated by the coaches" (hes not match fit yet) "will never be the same player".(we know how effective he now is playing from deep behind the front two when match fit) Ashton is just another hack on a mission to stick the knife in albeit eloquently. Ive said it before and i,ll say it again dont trust the bastards. We have to hope he will play a part before the season is out he is not match fit yet regardless of how Ashton dresses up his claims.

How many more stupid threads do we have to put up with dicussing relegation as a preferred option, Insanity.

Gazza talking now on 5 live phone in. Fawning Spurs fans ringing in saying how gutted they were when he left them. Gazza says he left Newcastle because he saw Beardsley, Waddle and others sold and " you dont stay at clubs who sell their best players". Depressing to see we are still that sort of club.