Doug

Adams is renowned fo being a moaner and complainer they reckon on his first day in nick he complained of his cell being too small and cramped. The warden said he demanded the wall be moved back ten yards!!

I just cant accept the last part of your post. I cannot believe that there are not players out there who can run for ninety minutes with high energy levels. Why do we have to put up with players who cant last the pace of a game. They cant all play for the top 4, they can only put 11 players each on the pitch. We have the whole world whose dream is to play in the premiership these days.

My argument is that at the top level it should be possible to employ players who are allrounders, ie tenacious tacklers as well as creative passers and dribblers who can defend and attack at pace and with good engines also. Any player in my side would have to tick all those boxes to play in the engine room of midfield. We seem to make a virtue out of dour defensive players who may manage to win a 50-50 but who are like rabbits caught in the headlights if the ball is played in to them and they are asked to actually do something creative with it. Gutierez is the only one we have with a trick and the heart to match any of the top teams. When you look at the players in the top sides they are packed with players of this calibre who can ghost past an opponent with ease, who are supremely fit as well. I think our best 11 would scrape us through to survival but the days are long gone when you can get by on the same 11 players week in week out.

Gerrard and Lampard dont work because Gerrard is the team player who will graft back as well as forward. Lampard is a selfish greedy goal hanger who would rather blaze a shot wide and high rather than play someone else in for a clearer chance IMO

A good definition. Anyone recall a certain Bryan Robson. Another player who slipped through the net and had to go to tomorrows opponents WBA to get his break into the big time. Broke up every opponents attack and was on the end of all his own teams attacks. Now that is what I call a midfield player. No need for the holding role with players like him in your team. Busy players who swarm all over the opposition, if only we could populate our midfield with this sort we would fly up the table.

Does it mean someone whose legs have gone, and can no longer run box to box, in which case we are well served with personnel for this important role.

The only inevitable thing about football managment is that they all get the sack. Especially so at unstable clubs like ours. The nightmare scenario of seeing Shearer sacked is too much for me. A resounding NO! as manager

No shortage of material for this thread. Why am I not surprised at that.

Wasnt that the game where your lot invaded the pitch??? Just to demonstrate how things change in football it was a hoot the following season watching them get relegated straight back down again.

Losing in the play off semi final to sunderland Non NU worst moment, turning on at the end just in time to join the watching armchair manc hordes score 2 in injury time to steal the european cup from Munich.

Succinct, and accurate. Agreed

Stoke for definite. Outsiders not mentioned yet, Blackburn after Santa Cruz gets sold in January Hull, who I still think will implode after a great start. Sadly, we are worse than anyone on and off the field and the peple in charge should be shot with shit for allowing it to get like this.

How can it be lazy. These people are paid a fortune they are not allowed to be lazy or not care. I think some of them literally cant run, are past it, too old, however you want to put being physically incapable but it surely cannot be laziness, that really would be unacceptable.

Its not 'brave' enough its 'good' enough to play football. A key part of being good at the top level is to be an athlete. I believe our players all have skill and football brains but these are not enough on their own. If players are not athletes they are not going to be able to move themselves and the ball around in the requisite manner. It is hard to comprehend that at premiership level you can have participants that literally cannot keep running for 90 minutes. However our team has more than its fair share of players on the pitch at any one time who fall into this category and to me that really does beggar belief. Until that is addressed you can forget it. The dead wood has to be shipped out and younger footballing athletes brought in. The worry is that there is no one in place to be able to fund or sort this out in the January window.

You can't turn on Kinnear yet. He cannot turn the likes of Geremi and Butt back into the sort of athletes they might have been a few years ago. They have been running on empty for ages. Geremis lack of mobility was there for all to see yesterday when he won the ball well but then his legs gave out to set them up for the run leading to the free kick for their 2nd. JK is probably getting as much out of what he has got at this point in time, his motivation of Ameobi is a case in point. Barton and Jonas will come good but he could not throw them back in too soon IMO. They only just got a result yesterday, they are no great shakes and we at at our lowest ebb. Its taken them 28 years FFS.

When you have a talent you get a period of youth where you shine no matter what self abuse you expose yourself too. However this period is short and transient and most of us will then have to work hard to maintain this level. George best was finished by his mid twenties, Gazza is an example of a more recent flawed individual with gifted feet. I would contend that Joey has also come through his free period of talent shining through the body abuse when at City and now will only get back there with bloody hard work and dedication. It remains to be seen whether he can break the mold and become that kind of changed person. I hope he can for our sake.

It is refreshing to see that we are talking about Bartons use in the team rather than the get rid agenda that the press hysteria would have us discuss. If the journos are looking at the trend of this thread they will be panicking that we are becoming focussed and rational again and will put out a reminder back page of how evil he is. I dont think he will be effective yet in such a big game and will need 3 or 4 games under his belt before we see the creative player he is destined at last to become for us.

Yep I agree with both, especially guth and joey, I'm actually really looking forward to them biting in midfield - hopefully not literally. Barton was looking solid at the end of last season....we shall find out I guess.... Cant agree with the first, like Butt and Viduka, Cacapa is a spent force IMO Agree with the second though if only Barton can salvage his fitness and realise he is supposed to be an elite athlete to compete in the Premier league.

I still have the feeling they will be at the bottom come the end of the season, i just hope we are not still there with them.

Collocini is a quality footballer. You can see that straight away. He is competitive, athletic, always available to receive the ball and has a composed touch on it. However if you are playing in a team bereft of confidence and under the cosh most of the time then even the best players will struggle. When the opposition are ripping through the players in front of you and getting at you constantly they will often have a man extra or a man in space. With sluggish middle of the park men like Geremi and Butt, defenders in this team are going to be exposed. also I think that to be selected for the modern day Argentina national team you have to be world class or you do not get in the squad.

Once again the hacks will be laughing at us. Its so sad that even after so many lies and fabrication from the press over the months, We will knee jerk at the drop of a hat when the press put anything out. Reading our own fans turning on KK on the strength of shite from the back pages is depressing. I would put this story in the same drawer as 'Shearers bar to be renamed' until something more concrete comes out.

The whole Wimbledon side of the late eighties would be strong contenders also http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/6572/paulgascoignefootball71li7.th.jpghttp://img78.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif

Roy Keane was and is a really nasty piece of work. Apart from all the well known bad things about him, I remember one early less mentioned incident well. It was in his early Forest career against us at the City ground. He scored a goal against us and as a celebration skipped sideways along the cinder track along the the then open terrace away end. As he went he was flicking the V sign with both hands in front of his stomach so as to be unseen from behind (for our eyes only). It was a cup match as I recall and he continued his petulant skip up the side all the way to the halfway line as we had been given all that area for our fans also. This was pre Hillsborough but post strike (Notts scabs) when we were all fenced in otherwise our lot would have been on the pitch after the wanker. Instead he caused a riot behind the fence where our fans ripped the seats out and generally went mad with frustration. Cloughie bless him had seen it all and hooked him off before the game got restarted thankfully.

He sounds like a good match for Ashley Cole, no wonder he stuck up for him so forcefully

He hit Ulrika Johnson when he was going out with her and is known to be partial to the art of dogging. although this could in all probability be tabloid junk so shame on me for mentioning it.