Yorkie

I'd say it's worse than ever for me tbh. Every defeat hits me like and absolute tonne of bricks nowadays. The wins are more relief than ecstacy.

I'm not a huge fan of Osula or anything but there's just no way Woltemade scores any of his last three goals. Willie has pace and power which, whether we like it or not, are the baseline athletic attributes you need above all in today's PL. And suggesting the guy who has a 100% penalty record shouldn't be taking penalties is a bit mad for me, like...

Fair enough. Will agree to disagree. My overarching point is that, from the buffet table of reasons to explain the season's failure, I don't understand why so many are gorging on the Woltemade platter. It's an egg and cress sandwich, I'd expect to see loads left come the end of the do. Clearly I'd be emptying the PSR plate and angrily kicking away anyone trying to get their fingers in.

Cheers for the response but just feels like a massive stretch to me, and an overrating of how good a player he is right now. He's an incredibly rough diamond and certainly wasn't pulling up any trees in the CF position. Osula is more effective than him. The season could turn out to be disastrous but it's only really become that post-Barca where we've lost four on the bounce; prior to then it was just an up-and-down season.

Not gonna argue the toss on his performances (see page 310 onwards for people waxing lyrical about his performances at Villa/Qarabag). Personally I feel it could well be beneficial in the long run to get him involved in the play, even if he was a fish out of water. So we've established he got played in midfield and wasn't great. Where was this disaster though?

How was it a disaster? For a start, my recollection is that he even had a few good games in that position, particularly at Villa in the cup and then Qarabag. Decent against the mackems too. A few bad ones too, admittedly. Meanwhile Gordon occupied the CF position and did well. Where exactly was the disaster?

The lad wasn't playing well in his favoured position, and then was kept from playing there by Gordon and Osula, both of whom played well and scored goals. He could've been sidelined by the manager at that point but, instead, a place was found for him in midfield so kept playing and developing. He's had the odd stint on the bench too but features in most if not all games. 'Terribly treated' is absolutely risible imo. He's played nearly 50 games. Absolutely crazy to me how much of the discourse about Howe's future revolves around this guy. He's not Ben Arfa, he's just a talented young player who's had absolutely boatloads of opportunities.

Pray for Nick. I still think his stint at CM will serve him well in the long run tbh.

Anyone who thinks that needs sectioning really. Last summer went wrong and that's it.

Don't wanna shit on your game @Heron but there's so many shades of good that isn't it a better test to say how many have been bad? It seems to me that the principal argument around the manager and transfers is: he should be sacked because of bad signings, rather than kept because of good signings. It's a really small number who've been outright bad imo. People like Osula and Wood have hardly done/did wonders for us but I don't think you can call them bad signings. Same for the likes of Ramsdale; he's pretty shite but he's just a backup goalie we got on loan. I'd break it down like this: Amazing Isak Bruno Burn Trippier Good Tonali Gordon Barnes Tino Botman Thiaw* Hall Pope Targett (loan) Less good but not bad Ramsey* Wood Osula Ramsdale Karius Good for PSR Vlachodimos Minteh Kelly Bad Targett (permanent) Woltemade* Wissa* Elanga* *I'm breaking my rule here my casting judgement about the most recent signings sooner than I feel you can properly judge. But you can reasonably make a judgement on their contribution so far, which is what the above represents.

Yeah, he's been a terrible loss to us, unsurprisingly. Especially when you consider he was providing loads of really crucial goals on top of everything else he gives us. Feels like because it's not been as bad as 23/24, the injury situation has been underrated as an issue this season. As you say, just Bruno's injury alone has been ruinous.

On the matter of expecting green shoots/better performances in this run of games. I was totally of that opinion/expectation too. What I didn't anticipate was the extent of the psychological damage from the Barcelona/Sunderland double-whammy. We probably could've kept it from spiralling had we ground out any sort of result at Palace, but we lost in horrific fashion again, taking confidence from low to subterranean. Rot fully established and season all but over. Where do we go from here and do we even have the stones for it any more? So, to that end, it feels like any gains to be felt from the relaxed schedule may have been undermined by the mental state of everyone, and - you could argue - it's not really a true test of Howe's ability to turn the boat around via the training pitch. Does that afford him the grace to go again no matter what happens? Dunno, maybe not. The point is that, I don't think what's happening in this final run should be viewed as compelling evidence of his ability to manage the club. Ironically if the swell of the relegation zone really does start lapping at our feet, it'll give us something critical to fight for and that might be reflected in performances.

I was very comfortable with my "on the fence" position in the previous poll, but if we're going the gun-to-the-head way, it's still a Yes. My well of faith is getting drier and drier, but it'll probably only take one good win to fire a water cannon directly down it. Begging for it to happen.

I confess that I could've made my point without the aggression so I apologise for that.

Depresses me beyond measure that I keep looking at the table in the context of this topic. I know it's unlikely but it feels like we're in 'strangers things have happened' territory and I'm begging for a result asap. Keep thinking about Callum Wilson at SJP in the penultimate game.

maybe. I'm unashamedly triggered by pretty much any snark towards an active club legend, because he doesn't deserve it and it depresses the life out of me (regardless of his performance this season), but when it's coming from people who know next to nothing about the club it's particularly jarring. Like I say, I do like big Nick and hope we somehow get the best out of him. I do think there's some Luque goggles from some though. 'Expensive attacker from abroad so must be class despite everything I'm seeing' vibes.

Mostly aye. He's shown glimpses and little more. For the manager's future to hinge on the specific matter of Woltemade would be lunacy. Fwiw I do like Woltemade and I've said this all season. I think he's an interesting player and could be a great one. But I absolutely do not subscribe to the opinion that he's been hung out to dry; he's had boatloads of opportunities - and I include being played in midfield among that. He needed to get involved in the play. Anyway, my central point wasn't even really about Woltemade.

I've no beef with people thinking the manager should leave and can see that he may well be approaching the end of the road. But know-nowts like this, who've been following the club for about five minutes, making bullshit assessments based on the treatment of their favourite player is tedious as fuck. That "unsuccessful concept" the manager is clinging to has delivered the best years and moments of my life in terms of supporting this club, which you wouldn't have a fucking clue about. He's played Woltemade in almost 50 games this season and he's mostly been a bag of shite, mate.

If he does leave I really want the history books to record this season as one mainly to forget, and little more than that. It would be a tragedy for a bad end to undermine his incredible achievements here. I absolutely detest how he receives some of the same language that the likes of Pardew and Bruce got, just for having the temerity to not maintain the amazing pace we've kept since circa January 2022. I do appreciate that we are careening towards potentially one of our worst ever finishes. But if that does happen, it's only really because of a horrendous final chapter to the most grueling season in our history. Prior to the Barcelona/Mackems disaster, we were still talking about European qualification with very much a straight face. It certainly didn't feel like Armageddon after that win at Chelsea a whole four games ago. Just a mental season full of ups and downs. If Eddie goes and we don't nail his successor, the Barca obliteration/Mackems surrender will go down as one of the most influential pairs of results in our modern history imo, up there with the likes of Partizan. Those defeats (mainly the way they were lost) murdered the season, flipping it from a mixed bag into something which cost the manager his job and set us on a different course. Whether he stays or goes in the summer, I'm at the point where I can accept either outcome. What I want more than anything is for the stinkcloud to clear, so he leaves without his reputation tarnished by one terrible run of form. We need our legends, man.

This sort of craic is absolute aids like.

In terms of the bigger picture, I don't really feel too different now to how I did after Bournemouth. Above all: absolutely minging and considering a date in the bath with a toaster. But beyond that, I'm still firmly on the fence. Outcome A; I can definitely picture a universe where we draw a line through this season, put faith in him and his relationship with Wilson, stabilise, and commence a new chapter. Outcome B, I can also definitely picture a universe where a true reset is completely necessary and he therefore has to be removed. Tonight's result doesn't really change anything for me. I was desperate to see the players not phone it in and I don't believe they did; we were pretty close to coming away with a point there. And despite their fragility, Arsenal are still a very good side. If Outcome A is going to happen then we've got to change the vibes around the place, and I would argue that a cliché spirited and narrow defeat isn't the worst way to make a start on that. If we'd done our usual trick of throwing points away - or getting battered - then I'd have predicted a continuation against Brighton. As it is, I'm less sure of what to predict next week. So now there's four more opportunities to lift the stink and. If he can't, it'll be Outcome B.

Honestly at this point I went into it just hoping to find a team still interested in finishing the season well. Clearly there's nothing tangible left to fight for but you can't underestimate the power of vibes. If we finish the season in a way that's better than utterly toxic then we've got a fighting chance of just drawing a line under it and trying to forget it ever happened. If we finish it with two or three wins then the whole mood changes.

What an interesting and fresh take.

I think we've been okay up to a point. Zero cutting edge but looked mostly competent and relieved to see us not throw the towel in after the early goal. The key will be how we respond if/when we concede another. Honestly at this point I just want to believe the players still have plenty of fight and desire, and that there's a functional gameplan being followed. Bruno makes a difference. Properly underrated how much of an issue our injury list has been this season.