Yorkie

If you're going to keep talking in these terms why don't you at least refer to the net spend (~£90m)? And why won't you acknowledge that the team was always going to get worse when Isak left, regardless of who came in? I'm not saying the signings have been good but referring exclusively to the spend and removing all other factors is extremely selective.

No chance. The only meaningful opponent they've faced in that competition is a team who's been in the PL relegation battle all season.

Aye that Mavrapanos disallowed goal was some bullshit TBF. Just looked like they gave up on that third one.

Only saw the highlights of the Brentford/West Ham game, but if the Damsgaard goal was anything to go by, the Hammers were playing with roughly 1% of the fight Spurs were tonight. Villa were hideous but Spurs did have a 'fighting for their lives' vibe you see from teams down there. West Ham potentially going the other way at least gets us another three points before the season's out.

Yep, really good point. We won't have access to the best managers, meanwhile we won't have a succession plan in place/up-and-comers identified yet, because it's only been since mid-March that a change has looked palatable to any sane observer. Everything about the new executive set-up has been based on the premise that Howe would be their manager and so - with his status with the squad seemingly intact - there's no obvious need to twist.

Watched him playing for Dungannon Swifts in yesterday's Irish Cup final. They lost and he barely featured, from what I saw. Some destination, given how he started his career.

PSR enabled the incredibly messy departure of our best player; thereby massively weakening us whilst simultaneously strengthening a club we would otherwise have been competing with. PSR also enabled any worthwhile replacement to be hoarded by the ESL collective, leading to our 'rubbish recruitment.' Money spent is a relatively meaningless figure and devoid of context. It's a strawman, especially if you're not even going to go as far as presenting the net spend figure (yours was £60m higher than ours according to TM). But even that's out of date as a metric in today's world of revenues and amortisation.

Okay, Frogsta. The institutional and financial structures/biases have played no part in your recovery and our fall. It's a level playing field and it's all down to your club being extremely competent. This is why we went to Panama, man.

sure

Man Utd's story this season should give hope to us all really. Even if you have a historically bad shitter one year, all you have to do is buy three of the most coveted attackers in Europe and roll the dice on changing the manager for the umpteenth time.

I wouldn't dispute that. I just find the "no excuses!" thing reductive and needlessly loaded. This season's poor league campaign is a result of a combination of factors - which he, at one point or another, has each referred to in pressers (schedule, Isak saga, his own performance). I wouldn't define a single one of them as an excuse. "Science against me" was an excuse. "The fans were cheering us on too much so we conceded" was an excuse. "Notting Hill was on." What happens if, despite best laid plans, the rug gets pulled from us again this summer? That's entirely within the scope of possibility given our place in the financial food chain. Even if we're as prepared as can be. I just think going in with "no excuses" is a hasty and unforgiving stance, which assumes maximum weight on the 'his own performance' aspect, and less weight on all the other things. Who knows what's going to happen between now and a year's time?

When does a reason become an excuse? There are lots of external factors out of his control. Potentially internal factors too if he's not the one pulling the strings in terms of recruitment.

Some additional thoughts after watching the extended highlights: Our first was a really good goal all in. Superb bit of build-up play, great ball from Bruno, great instincts from Murphy and Osula clinical at the critical moment. Not the goal of a team absolutely bereft of confidence. Osula looks like he's really come on. Can't knock his form at the minute; credit to him for taking the opportunity and credit to the manager for backing him. Loathe to start an argument but the idea of Woltemade being more deserving of the place is pretty mad imo. Their goal was brilliant football. One-touch football we can only dream of. If they were at that for much of the game the ln we've done well to keep them to one. Re the third; hadn't spotted the deflection from the keeper on Wissa's pass on the short highlights. Safe to say he got a bit lucky but you can make the case he earned that luck having won the ball in the first place. Absolutely desperate for him to get into gear for us. Eddie giving the love heart sign up to his wife in the crowd was absolutely lovely.

He's clearly got a very long way to go to convince anyone he's going to turn his NUFC career around; but the misses against Arsenal and Brighton just look to me like a striker who's out of form, out of confidence and who's hardly seen the pitch - rather than one that's just fundamentally broken. They're snatchy and uncomposed but at least he's in the right positions to score, which isn't something you're guaranteed of with certain others in the squad. Obviously they're huge goalscoring opportunities and you're drawn to that pricetag with every miss, but neither are gimmes. Thought his assist was good. Pressed the defender into an error and lured the keeper into no-mans-land. Great finish from Barnes all the same; goal reminded me a bit of Wilson's against Burnley.

Decided to give my brain a bit of a rest and largely avoided everything NUFC since the early part of this week - including the game. Checked the score a few times during the game and just felt the most immense relief that we'd won. I've long accepted that we're not going to be a team that plays good football this season, but today has at least given belief that we're still capable and invested. The big fear after Bournemouth was that the players had given up on the manager. He wouldn't have deserved that, and it would've made for a very sorry and out-of-character end to an incredible era. So I'm glad the players are giving this ludicrous season one last push. I'm jesting in the Europe thread; just finishing the season well would be great. The foundations are now there for us to have a non-miserable end to this uniquely taxing campaign. Being able to draw a line under it while the vibes are vaguely positive could be powerful.

Here we fuckin' go

*P7 W6 D1 L0 (86%) If he can figure out a way for us to regularly capitalise on leads again, he will get us back on track. Easier said than done but that's what's been at the centre of our success under him - winning by force rather than grinding stuff out.

Exactly, he's had loads of opportunities. Nearly 50 different matches to make a difference; many of them in which he has, more that he hasn't. There's nothing underhand about what I've said there, and like I keep saying, I do like him; what I totally disagree with is that he's been treated badly or been horribly mismanaged.

Midfielder? The deepest position I can recall anyone suggesting he was is a 10, supporting striker/playmaker Fair enough; 'not a striker,' however you want to define it. You see what I'm getting at. There's no consensus on what he really is but his supposed mismanagement is continually a stick to beat the manager with. And maybe he could've made different choices but it gets way, way over-egged because the player himself just hasn't done enough despite featuring in nearly 50 games.

Page 278 and onwards provides a pretty good insight into the state of play prior to Howe trying something different with him. Feels like whenever he was at CF, we were calling him a midfielder; since he's been in midfield we've been calling him a striker.

Just stop the rot. For the love of God just don't lose again.

I'd say it's worse than ever for me tbh. Every defeat hits me like and absolute tonne of bricks nowadays. The wins are more relief than ecstacy.

I'm not a huge fan of Osula or anything but there's just no way Woltemade scores any of his last three goals. Willie has pace and power which, whether we like it or not, are the baseline athletic attributes you need above all in today's PL. And suggesting the guy who has a 100% penalty record shouldn't be taking penalties is a bit mad for me, like...