Yorkie

I don't think there's an appetite to argue that we've been hard done by when it comes to the games themselves. We've not suffered a sequence of robberies; we've lost an absolutely ludicrous amount of points from winning/drawing positions because of our own failings. The only one I can think of where you might say we were robbed is Chelsea where we should've had a pen at 2-1 (iirc), but even then our characteristic failings were present because Woltemade should've scored more than the two he got. The issue all season long has been our inability to put games to bed, thus piling the pressure on defenders and, slowly but surely, turning is into complete soft cocks who are unable to hold our nerves. Why and how that is the issue - and who/what you blame - is the real debate. But our position is a true reflection of our performance this season, no doubt about it.

Well yes but the version of Elanga and Wissa we've got is not the version we scouted and bought.

Mad how much the ESL chums help each other out with transfers like that.

Cisse was shite until we needed him to be, at which point he kept Pards in the job for a few more weeks.

I assume that - given his payout on top of all their other wasted expenditure - this sequence of absolutely horrendous decisions will be financially ruinous for Chelsea, in much the same way as a non-ESL team making a couple of poor signings.

I do have some doubts about the commitment levels across the board at this point but these lads have already played 53 games this season; not to mention this following excursions and matches to both Australia and Japan, and all their international duties too, plus injuries and recovery work. The season is in tatters but we don't need to retcon them into being half-arsers; they've broadly played out of their skin for this team, it's just gone a bit awry.

Pope Thiaw Botman Burn Trippier Hall Tonali Bruno Murphy Barnes Osula Drives me mad that we're yet again back in "can't be any worse than..." territory with these shite goalies but, Christ on a bike, Ramsdale against Arsenal's set pieces? 🙃 Other key thing here is that it's bunged full of the entire leadership group. Need to be looking to these lads now to eliminate the dismal softcockery that continues to ruin our season.

Of course you should; it shouldn't be controversial. We hit a malaise at one of the worst possible times so it's still critical context to everything that's followed. Doesn't absolve every decision obviously, but you weren't saying that.

My Arsenal mate was telling me how he's "checked out" at this point. Top of the league and in the CL semi-final. My heart truly bleeds like.

Yep, it's not an outlandish thought. The difference there of course is that they were new appointments. They at least have some evidence here that the manager can implement a vision.

If this is true, it’s very concerning. If they believe all of the plans rely on one manager being in charge, they’re not doing their job properly. I'm not saying that. But they've assembled the plans based on the idea that he will be, so it's not surprising that their preference is to stick rather than twist. We've absolutely no idea how developed their contingency plan is in the event Howe should go. It's only very recently that his position looks really severely in doubt but then of course it's always sensible to have a successor in mind. The Hürzeler link didn't seem wildly implausible tbh.

I'm very happy if the execs etc still think he's their man at this point in time, but I don't feel like he's out of the woods, and he needs to regain total buy-in from the squad. If that doesn't happen then it probably should be curtains, unless we're planning truly wholesale personnel changes. I'm not surprised that their current preference remains to keep him. It's only the last two games where the dial has moved for the likes of me. For all the mackems game was No Excuses!, for me there was some legitimate excuses, and there was hope that we'd see an improvement once the schedule relaxed. But we've been abject since the break and the situation is dire beyond reasonable mitigation. I'm also not surprised because there's probably very little appeal to identify and recruit another manager right now. Not because they're incompetent, but because the summer plans (you'd hope) are already in shape and are based on the premise that he will be manager. If they've accepted that Europe just isn't going to happen and acknowledge that he's not the principal reason for that - and this season's final resting place is fairly immaterial - then you can understand why they're prepared to go again. But we've got to show something in the final games. We can't go into the summer with wall-to-wall toxicity.

At the very least we've probably got Trafford and goodness knows how many extra points that gets us. It wouldn't take that many to make a difference to the whole perception.

Him being only 22 and already producing really good numbers in the PL probably had something to do with it. Stylistically he hasn't looked suitable but I don't think the logic was a million miles away, as was the case with Wissa. Not arguing with the results, like, the latter especially has been an absolute disaster and one of the top three reasons for why we've had such a bad season. Elanga has been mostly terrible but also thrown in the odd performance where you see why he was so useful for Forest. The happy clapper in me still hopes we might get something out of both but appreciate it's getting less and less likely. We probably won't have a choice but to keep trying cos their respective values will have absolutely plummeted.

The central point of that banner still holds true imo but it was mainly a product of it's time: a response to the media narrative and various gaslighting that the fans were too demanding - expecting CL football, etc etc. When, in reality, all we were so desperate for was to end the systematic and deliberate neglect by the owner and his grateful lackies from boardroom to dugout. I don't think it's really worth referring to today and/or claiming you don't subscribe to it; I think most will find - in it's true context - they probably did. We're still suffering from the long-term affects of that neglect, btw. We may be forever.

Would be tempting in some ways because he's only 31, a fantastic player and has always seemed like a great lad... but just far too injury prone and expensive. He'll probably go somewhere like Barcelona where money doesn't matter.

He got a great tune out of them as well Well what does that tell you? The thing about him not giving young players a chance has always been horseshit. If they're good enough to play and he's trusted them to enact his tactical gameplan, they've played.

Youngest combined starting eleven in 21 years at the weekend, but crack on peddling myths.

Bruno being back could be influential and if we're cornered into having to start both Burn and Trippier again due to injuries, then we've at least got three bona fide leaders on the pitch. At the other end, Osula at least still seems to be playing with his usual enthusiasm and doing what he can on a personal level to grasp the opportunity. The ones I'd be suspicious of are Gordon, Tino and Tonali. One is a confirmed flake so needs to be sat down unless doing so would ruin the dressing room; one is a potential flake but injured anyway; the other ran himself to death like usual at the weekend. It seems an alien concept that these players could really phone it in on the manager after everything he's done for them. It's probably more a matter of their confidence being in absolute tatters since Barca, and playing within themselves, rather than jacking it in.

Maybe pedantic but I don't think it's the right question really. Firstly - for all our problems - it's an unrealistic outcome and therefore not worth framing the discussion around. It's just a pointless hypothetical. Then it becomes a sliding scale. How many more defeats is 'acceptable' before the manager's position is untenable? One? Two? Three? That's not a sensible way to make a decision about his future. If you just accept that the season is a failure and the specific league position is broadly irrelevant, you make a decision on his future based on the bigger picture matters. Is the club so toxic that we're left with the only thing we've got true agency on? Can this squad 'go again' with Howe, or have they completely lost belief? Are Howe and Wilson totally aligned on the summer plans? If we're leaning towards a change, have we identified a true successor (who can also work with Wilson), or are we cornered into appointing a stopgap? As someone who supports Eddie Howe FC with the childhood bedspreads to prove it, my great sadness is in the fact that I think the toxicity/squad belief factors will be at such a point that a change is necessary.

Latest episode was just Caulkin and Waugh sensibly picking the bones out of it all. They're alright when they've not got Taylor Payne there.

Listened to Pod on the Tyne because, for all its faults, by design it's fairly balanced and not overly emotional. I can't hack it at the moment; I'm fearful as much as the next person that 'The Project' is in tatters, but I just cba listening to folks go all in on these people who've given me some of my best days following the club. It's too depressing and painful.

I would've said at one point that I could handle us signing him to be backup assuming we got a major upgrade on Pope. But his 1/10 ability to deal with any ball which comes across the box means it's such a massive risk having him on the pitch in any game. So many goals go in and you think he might as well not be there. His distribution is average to pish as well, which is supposed to be one of his strengths.

Clearly this season is destined to end in tatters and has been ever since Barca, but these results just show what three points yesterday would've done. Useless.

Was there with the gang yesterday, really liked it. Berties Shirts too; great spot and a fun collection.