Yorkie

Seems most likely to me that offering Wilson an extension was a contingency plan in the event everything went tits up. Which it did, and with hindsight we'd have been much better off.

If only I could.

There's evidence he wanted Mbeumo ahead of Elanga but granted, there's just as much evidence he was a long-term target, so he's accountable to that money being wasted if indeed he doesn't improve. Wissa is absolutely nowhere near this club if the rules are fairer imo. Or if he is it's as second fiddle to Isak. Either way there's no way we drop £55m on him; he's either cheaper cos we're less desperate or we look elsewhere.

Still, feel free to stop sharing absolute bilge from that shithole. Including fucking hilarious AI images of Howe's face superimposed into Jeffrey Epstein.

You've misunderstood - I'm saying the difference between 9th and 14th is much of a muchness. The point is we've fallen in the hierarchy, just as the rules intend.

So you reckon the choice of who we recruited had nothing to do with the conditions he refers to?

Personally I don't see how the specific position really matters. In the league's hierarchy, we've dropped from CL chasers to mid-table hopefuls. 9th, 12th, 14th - it's all much of a muchness imo. The point is we've had a ceiling placed upon us and, what do you know, we've hit it. I feel like that's what the history books should read on this season rather than "it was going mint then everyone just shat the bed."

"Has the project stalled?" "I think the rules have made it very difficult for that momentum to go with the speed that it initially did. I don't know whether we can beat that system, we have to follow the rules that are set. "The club desperately want to be ambitious but there's a limit to what we can spend and that has a knock-on effect that everything we do and decisions we made previously. To not recruit for that many windows - I don't know a team that wouldn't suffer from that, and we certainly have. Then losing Alex last summer was a considerable blow. "But we can't feel sorry for ourselves and we can't offer excuses; we have to find a way to be successful without all of these things. But I think there has to be an understanding of the tough conditions that we're working in." So do people just not buy this?

Eh? From Howe? He literally comes straight out and says there's no excuses and all the criticism is due.

It's a bit similar to being destined for relegation but with a manager who's renowned for getting promoted. Assuming we don't finish in a European place, I'd absolutely back him to deliver us a very good domestic campaign next season. Feels like we're guaranteed a good crack at the cups as well under Howe, something which has seemingly become underrated this season.

@The Butcher do us a favour and stop peddling fake news/literally anything from Twitter.

This today? So the thing about no players speaking to the media was bullshit?

In think it's a bit to do with all of those things as well as the coaching/tactics etc. Howe is clearly accountable to how his current team plays but you're listing things which have all been massively influential on the season.

What changed in the small number of days since we delivered a great performance against Barcelona before winning at Chelsea? Have they all given up on him because of that second half in the Nou Camp?

Probably won't do myself any favours making a post like this today but this is the sort of critique I just find wildly unfair. What was that, our 51st game this season? There's definitely some mentality issues but I think the players have given an awful lot this season. It's only a week ago that we held Barcelona and ground out a win at Stamford Bridge, which never happens. Safety caveat: we were shit today and the schedule isn't accountable for how poor a result that is.

Wissa and Pope are the only ones I actively want to leave because we have to resolve the GK and CF situations if we're going to progress and they will therefore have to make way. I love most of the squad, for my sins. The majority of them have contributed to arguably the greatest years of supporting this team I've ever had. Nothing lasts forever of course but you'd hope anyone who does leave will do so with their reputations intact.

Reflecting on the game itself and stripping away the derby element of it, it was just a carbon copy of all the other home defeats and late draws. We have the initiative at some point, but surrender it through a combination of missing chances and being incredibly rash in possession, ultimately presenting chances to the opposition. Yet another game of incredibly fine margins we've fallen on the wrong side of. We're not many universes away from being the victors of that game. Botman off the post, Gordon's two huge chances which he inexplicably skied, Thiaw's goal which - though correct - was extremely close. Sunderland deserved to win; to be clear, I'm not saying otherwise. Just pointing out the deja vu. There's a thinly veiled defense of the manager too admittedly; in that, for all he is accountable to the result, not many things have to be different for us to be talking about an entirely different one. It's been the case all season long that we've just not stuck it away enough and that's had a knock-on effect on the rest of our performance and, sadly, absolutely loads of results. Stick Isak in there or a more effective replacement and things are very different.

If people want the manager to get sacked because Sunderland did the double over us then in all honesty I don't think that's a particularly outlandish view. It's not one I hold, but I do understand it. I wish people had held that view en masse 13 years ago, and maybe we would've made progress as a club more quickly. I can't describe how galling it would be for Pardew to have survived all of those derby horrors, only for Howe not to. My opinion on him hasn't changed and I honestly can't see it doing so in any circumstances this season really. I think it's fair to say he's had an absolutely terrible week and his choices in Barcelona ultimately led to today's surrender; the players needed more help from him. However, for me, the bigger picture remains that he's the right person for this job and there are things more accountable to our forgettable season than him.

LB, bench or funding the squad rebuild. Shocking week.

Thought we'd lose and we did. We're not a good team and we've totally crumbled mentally this week. Writing was on the wall after an hour in Barcelona. Dunno where we go from here. Feels a bit like blind faith to expect us to make a sustained surge for 7th but have said for weeks it's gonna be up and down until the end.

So bad man

So self-inflicted

Disastrous

We absolutely hate the ball

Writing probably on the wall now. Come on lads, please dig in