Parky

....and yes Kaka is appears Hearts have taken up the option.

Absolute disgrace in an England shirt. No right foot whatsoever is one of the main things that held him back. Very good player mind. Alreet Parky? McManamananan was quality at Euro '96 for England btw. I thought you might have worked it out as WE were talking about Giggs originally.

Absolute disgrace in an England shirt. No right foot whatsoever is one of the main things that held him back. Very good player mind. He is right footed yes right footed, he had a free role at liverpool, england stuck him on the left wing most of the time, over 10 years on and england are still looking to fic that left wing problem. I was talking about Giggs. Clicked on the quote below by mistake. Nothing to see here.

Leeds I presume that was a joke. Just get out of this thread Chez they'll just knacker you out.

Riiiiight. So you agree not a shred of evidence to back this up apart from the signings of Souness and Robson which of course is not relevant to the workings of Allardyce? So in terms of actual evidence relevant to the current administation there is absolutely nothing to suggest this a concern? I think its you that missed the point tbh. The way I look at it is that Allardyce is still in the business of building a solid foundation which is his nature. The extra cash just means one or two luxuries we might not have considered before.

....we all get out turn in the sun mate...Just enjoy it and go with it. Ashers is no fool. I take your point however and it is a valid one for discussion.

Irrational no doubt, but i'm merely expressing a concern. I feel your concern Dave, but let me assure you there is nothing to fear but fear itself.

Me?

Exactly. It's also that moment when someone wins the lottery and then realises the fear that comes with the joy.

...and I can see the 433 clearly now.

Absolute disgrace in an England shirt. No right foot whatsoever is one of the main things that held him back. Very good player mind.

Fair enough. But the point still stands that players really need to test themselves in different leagues if they are to really reach that absolute top awareness of their ability.

I think Giggs is the best British player of the last 20 years. Well ahead of Gerrard for me. Always thought of Giggs as more of a 'supporting cast'. Maybe it's just because of the position he plays in? When I think of the old Manyoo teams I think about Schmeichel, Cantona and Keane. The first name that comes up isn't 'Giggs' and that for me is usually a defining quality that the 'greats' possess. Saying that, there's no doubting he has been quality, was special when he broke onto the scene and his longevity makes him a really really good player, but still not a footballing 'great' for me. All the stuff he's won being an ever-present in a 'flair' position for all these years makes him a great for me. The ones you mention are also greats but playing left-wing, which he has done almost all his career, is extremely difficult imo. Firstly it's hard to maintain consistency in that position for any length of time and secondly the pressure upon a player to perform in a team like Man Utd. is immense. Honestly can't think of better British player in a long time. But you see if Giggs had flourished at Barca or Juve for 2/3 years along with his ManU days...I would start to consider him for my 'greats' list.

Difference is we're potentially a big club, and thats without a huge extrenal investment - weve had the resources and infrastructure to challenge the big boys, but weve failed in recent years due to poor decision making at board level and not having the setup in place to take advantage of our resources. Outsiders who know a bit about our club know this, and theyll probably see that these problems should be rectified with the appointment of Allardyce - add the possible takeover by a cash rich billionaire, and its hard not to see us as a step up from West Ham, who only have the latter. Granted were not a true big club in respect of current success, but then by the same standards West Ham have hardly been successful, getting relegated recently and nearly being relegated again, whilst it was only a few years ago that we were title pretenders and playing in the CL. Hence, if noone is willing to match Tevez' valuation but we were, then what would stop him coming to us? I have no doubt a large bid would secure Tevez unless we were up against Liv or ManU (Chelsea have sorted their strikers).

Yes.

I think he's scared of getting found out.

Don't think it's quite the same for defenders. It's a core activity not a game changing one like mf or forwards who can change games or impose themselves....Hallmarks of the great etc...

This is the crux of it and great players are defined by their continual need to learn and define themselves in new environments...I'm sure it is something they are born with...I don't think Gerrard is bright enough to really want to dig deep and discover the other components to his profession.

Where did I say that? I've simply found quotes from Berbatov about him talking about his ambitions for next season at Spurs. Owen on the other hand has a buy out clause in his contract, the fee surrounding it came out in the Times which is a paper that Owen writes a column in, coincidence? He's since been asked to declare his loyalty to Newcastle next season by our chairman, he's so far refused. There is a huge difference between the 2 situations. I'd have to agree with Baggy here, Owen is a deceitful little wretch. But I'd still rather keep him. Just his name on the teamsheet sends shivers down def spines.

This was by and large the time in Gazza's career that he took the plunge and moved to Lazio, relatively the same age and reputation. The jump of playing at a top Euro club and the new wider stage is crucial in cementing oneself in the history books. Henry if he doesn't leave Arsenal this year will meet the same fate. These kind of top class players need to show they can do it in La Liga or Serie A ( a bit harder for a forward). Beckham made the move at the right time although Fergie had a hand in that, Fergie did him a big favour. The conceptual and tactical development of the best players into great players is reliant on this to a large degree imo. Gerrard might now never be classed as a true great. Agree?

The first radical, thought provoking and intelligent post in this thread. blueyes.gif

...yeah but you have to choose. Oh... it's one of those threads. I choose Martins to stay. Over Owen one of the greatest finishers in Engish football ever?

...yeah but you have to choose.

Straight choice as we bring in a couple of bigger strikers one of the midgets will need to go. For me I'd keep Owen, still the best finisher in the PL and a very intelligent player position wise and understanding the weaknesses of the opposition CB wise. Oba has done very well for us and has 'that pace' and a goalscorer of savage power, although not an instinctive finisher. His value is now higher than last year, perferct time to let him go to Juve.