ED209

Step forward Mighty Mitro your time has come.

Hamstring gone. Fair well sweet Prince

It’s been good but I still think we will bugger it up.

This bit is from the BBC, looks like the defence would probably have a reasonable argument that the cops didn’t cause Atkinson to die with their actions. “All three of the prosecution's medical experts, the court heard, agreed that while Mr Atkinson's enlarged heart meant that he could have died at any time, the prolonged period of Tasering and the kicks to his head made a "significant contribution" to his death.”

Nice to meet you sir. How is your day?

Love it how someone has created a new profile just to troll me, love it.

Hmm could this be takeover linked?

Who ever said I was 24? Your attention to detail is poor

So you think the 1/2 days of training given to most front line cops a year on self defence/restraint makes them experts and able to handle no violent situation like some kind of ninja master? I despair I really do, you strike me as the time who does their probation then looks for a job in an office working day shifts where you spend a lot of time applying hindsight judgement to how cops have dealt with fast moving situations at 2am when you were safely tucked up in bed.

To be fair there is only you saying I am wrong. Of course I am going to rugby tackle a man with a knife and risk me getting stabbed as well when the kick to the head would be far safer and far more likely to swiftly end the situation. I can’t give you a court example of a kick to the head being found by a court to be lawful probably because an example like I have given would never make it to court in the first place because there is no prospect of a conviction. Have a read of Palmer vs R 1971.

You don’t kick him in the head as hard as you can she dies. You don’t have time to read sodding APP or weight up the precise niceties of the situation. You act immediately.

You attend a report of domestic violence, when you get to the door of the house it’s open, you here a female screaming inside. You run in and in the living room you see a female lying on the floor with a male straddling her, pinning her to the floor. He has a large knife in his hand, there’s blood on her clothing, he’s already stabbed her once, he’s just about to plunge the knife into her chest. You aren’t trained to use taser. You have literally a second to form a plan and act or she is probably going to die. What do you do? You kick his head as hard as you possibly can using every ounce of strength you can muster. To make sure he cannot stab her and he cannot turn on you justified? 100% lawful 100% realistic enough for you? I know it is because about 15 years ago I went to a very similar job, arrived to find male straddling female with a pillow pushed firmly into her face. Too late on this occasion though as she was dead.

The prosecution haven’t summed up yet. That comes after the evidence has been heard. I am not sure why you doubt me and I don’t really care to be honest. I am comfortable with my level of knowledge and I am fairly sure that my colleagues trust my decision making in tough situations. What you think is neither here nor there.

i agree 100%. The circumstances you describe and in the circumstances outlined by the prosecution case yesterday would make a kick in the head totally unacceptable. I am not defending the cops at all in this case. To make the point that kicking someone in the head could never be justified in any circumstances is very wrong though. It worries me greatly that we have someone on here that claims to have been a cop doesn’t understand that. If you have a cop who doesn’t know their powers with regards to the lawful use of force and as a result wouldn’t use potentially lethal force in the correct circumstances then every time they leave the police station they are putting the public, their colleagues and themselves at risk.

I am absolutely not wrong at all. In 24 years real life experience I have never kicked or needed to kick anyone in the head however that doesn’t mean I won’t need to today or tomorrow to defend myself or others. If I do I will sleep easy knowing that as long as my actions are reasonable, proportionate and necessary the law of the land will offer me protection.

As I have said under English law absolutely any use of force can be reasonable if the circumstances justify it, this includes kicking someone in the head or anything else you could possibly imagine. section 3 of the criminal law act - (1)A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large. Section 117 of the police and criminal evidence act - 117Power of constable to use reasonable force. Where any provision of this Act— (a)confers a power on a constable; and (b)does not provide that the power may only be exercised with the consent of some person, other than a police officer, the officer may use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of the power. In the summary given by the prosecution in this case the kick in the head doesn’t sound justified in any way but let’s see what the evidence says .. However to say kicking someone in the head is never reasonable is wrong in law and wrong in reality

As more details of the prosecution case have emerged today it doesn’t look good for the cops. Still that’s just the case, let’s see what all the witnesses say.

The thin blue line with Rowan Atkinson is more realistic than that tripe.

Anyway back to the case at hand. I think it’s wrong to jump to conclusions until all of the evidence is heard.

I would suggest you need an OST refresher. Maybe a brush up on section 3 of the criminal law act and section 117 of PACE.

Because it’s not the movies. You hit the largest target area to stop someone. When faced with lethal force (a knife) then it’s reasonable to defend yourself with lethal force. have you ever personally experienced the massive adrenaline dump and total loss of fine motor skills you get when faced with a real and immediate threat to your life?

Years of experience of what? Unless you witnessed the incident or have viewed the evidence you have no idea what happened. The same as I have no idea what happened.

Just as well I never mentioned kicking the person with the knife in the head then isn’t it.

There have been many cases where police shooting someone dead have been deemed to be lawful in the circumstances. A far higher level of force than a kick in the head. So why would it be so hard to imagine a circumstance where a kick may be reasonable?

But we and you don’t know exactly what happened in this specific incident so how can you judge?