KaKa

Wonder if he'll get as much stick as Owen if he gets fit, plays for the Argies again, and gets another injury..!??

 

What the hell are you on about?

 

 

 

I assume you CAN read, son ? The sentence is quite clear, as is the meaning ; Owen has received massive stick on this board because he has been injured playing for his country; can you manage to see the connection now, or do you need it spelling out in BIG letters...?

 

So what the hell were YOU on about ?

 

 

How stupid are you mate?

Owen got stick because when he first joined all he ever harped on about was England, and whenever he was injured it only ever seemed like he got fit just in time to play for England and not necessarily Newcastle. Of course he would only then get injured again playing for England and then miss a ton of games for Newcastle. This continued to happen abd so he got stick for it.

Now smarty pants ... you tell me how in the hell this compares to Jonas situation? Jonas has played brilliantly for us since he joined and has not only been our best player this season, but also our most committed.

So again I ask.

What the hell are you on about?

Right.

So basically, it's looking like after selling Milner, we probably weren't able to tie up the deal for whoever his replacement was, probably Shweinstiger, and so we brought in Gonzalez on loan.

As far as the left back thing goes. It appears the club weren't able to get Warnock in, and so it was probably the same thing there, with us trying for Atouba as an alternative, which Keegan probably wasn't happy with either. Who knows?

If this is what has caused Keegan to resign then it's disgusting. I wouldn't be at all surprised tbh.

Right.

So basically, it's looking like after selling Milner, we probably weren't able to tie up the deal for whoever his replacement was, probably Shweinstiger, and so we brought in Gonzalez on loan.

As far as the left back thing goes. It appears the club weren't able to get Warnock in, and so it was probably the same thing there, with us trying for Atouba as an alternative, which Keegan probably wasn't happy with either. Who knows?

If this is what has caused Keegan to resign then it's disgusting. I wouldn't be at all surprised tbh.

Why in gods name would he come?

He showed interest last time around and no matter what anyone says we would be an attractive job for most managers.

As far as the French jod goes, there are already whispers that Blanc would be considered, and he is interested. Now considering how well Blanc has done with Bordeaux, and considering Deschamps has been out of work for a little bit, Blanc is more likely  to get the gig.

In all honesty we should try and tie up Didier before Domenech loses another game.

Wise should be familiar enough with him, but at the same time he is a legitimate up and coming young manager.

I will say this for Ince. His MK Dons side played beaautiful football last year, and had success with this type of football in the lower leagues.

In my opinion, when Ince was hired by Blackburn, I thought his biggest problem would not be what he does on the training ground, but rather what he did off it i.e. buying players, contracts etc.

With our current setup this wouldn't be an issue, so it could be very interesting.

I'm ready to back whoever comes in to be honest. Just looking forward to moving forward. I think we'll be just fine.

I think it would also be good to see a young, up and coming British manager at the club also. He also has a strong enough character to get through these tough times. He will certainly have the players attention from day one too, as they will all be familiar with him.

I'm forever optimistic.

Walcott was good last night, but I still think it's pretty shocking he gets in the team on the wing ahead of Ashley Young.

Young has the pace, with a bit more guile about him.

Young on the left and Walcott on the right would be interesting.

Sack the board!

 

Back the sword!

 

Crack the horde!

 

Hack the cord!

 

Smack the Nord!

 

Jack the Ford!

Praise the Lord!

I recall after Fat Sam was fired, and the board were looking for a manager, before Keegan made his interest known, there was quite an emphasis on experience being made. I know they came out and said they would not be looking to hire Shearer at the moment due to his inexperience.

Therefore, I'm not sure the rumours of Poyet and Ince are true.

It might very well be an experienced guy who has managed in the premiership before.

Do we still have the thread speculating on who our next manager might be after Allardyce was sacked? Can't seem to locate it.

Like I said in my post before, talking about it and acknowledging a difference is the first step to addressing it.

 

That's completely true, but what you can address (and therefore worth discussing) are economic and social factors like the ones we've mentioned - not genetics.

Precisely.

Keep Beckham and Gerrard out and the team will be so much better for it.

No one was playing those stupid crossfield long balls last night, veven with Heskey up there to aim for.

It was patient passing and the ball was kept on the ground. Lampard and Barry especially set the tone for this type of game.

You watch what happens as soon as Gerrard is re-introduced though. he'll start launching those ridiculous passes which are only succesful 1 out of 10 times. Always wants to do the more complicated thing Gerrard does. Always wants to be some sort of super hero.

Oh, shush KaKa, he had principles and his honour to defend.

It's not like they told the guy to kill anyone.

Jimenex, Wise etc - "Kev, we don't really want to buy the sorts your after because they've been around for a while and they are a bit pricey, and so don't offer great value for money. We can get you some really good youngsters that can put in a decent performance right now, and still only get better. what do you say eh?

Kev - "Hmmmm ... okay. The other players have done well so far, so I'll give it a go. However, if they struggle badly and things don't go so well on the pitch, then I will be asking for some prem experienced players to come in, okay? If you still don't want that, then I'd prefer you brought someone else in to manage"

Jimenez, Wise etc - "Okay Kev, fair enough"

That's what should have happened really. In actual fact though, Kev most likely went into a sulk and started threatening to quit.

Tbh I think Ashley has done a good job since he took us over. He cleared the debt, installed a progressive system that has succeeded in bringing in good players and shipping out bad ones whilst not spending lavish amounts of money and balancing the books in a way that will lead us to be able to spend better in the future, and just be in a more strong financial position as a club as opposed to one that could have gone under with the previous regime's policies.

 

What he did wrong was appointing Keegan, as we know Keegan is a very principled man and is not afraid to stick to them whatever the cost. Without knowing the exact details of what happened I can't comment properly but it saddens me that Keegan could not have reached some kind of compromise with the new system, because so far it is working well.

 

Would I rather Keegan was still here? Yes, but I don't think that can be completely blamed on Ashley's shoulders. Keegan has to take some responsibility too for walking.

 

Would I be happy if we were taken over by these rich blokes? Yes, but only because of the fan's reactions to the latest turn of events. If Ashley's position becomes unteneble it's only because of the fan's reaction or over reaction to Keegan walking. Yes it's a joke, we look a laughing stock but Keegan didn't have to walk. He said himself he knew a DOF was coming in. I think Keegan owed it to the fans to stick out this season at least. He may bemoan the principle of not being able to bring in his own players, but look at the results. Every signing we have made has been a good one imo, taking into account all factors.

 

This is my biggest issue with Keegan.

The season had started very well, and the new boys who were brought in were all performing.

Okay, so things weren't perfect, but he couldn't at least give it a chance till the summer, or even till January? He quit 3 games in?

For someone who cares so much for the fans he sure did bail out mighty fast.

Hmmmm ...

What are the odds on Houghton getting this gig permanently.

I might put some money down on that just in case.

'A lot of dark skinned people live there. So naturally the crime rate is higher than anywhere else.'

 

OK, it's not the type of comment we like to see. But just to play devil's advocate here, what has he said that's actually incorrect?

 

Have a look here: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs06/s95race05.pdf

 

These are official Home Office figures, and whilst I've not read the report in full it does show that black people account for 2.8% of the population of the UK but yet make up 13.5% of the prison population.

 

Do you not think that, rather than it being that black people are in some way genetically pre-disposed to crime, that the disproportionate amount of black people in the prison system is more to do with the fact that poorer people in run down urban-centre communities are more likely to commit crimes that land them in prison and these communities have a higher percentage of black people than the general population? 

 

Maybe black people are often poorer because they are less intelligent than white people? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

 

[can opened, worms everywhere]

 

I know, I'm being deliberately provocative. Seriously though, there ARE differences between the races. We're taught that everyone is equal but we're not. Look at the 100m final at the Olympics. Many whites there? No, because black people are faster runners over short distances. Look at the swimming events. Many blacks? No, because white people have lower bone density so can swim better. Look at the distance races: Lots of Africans and Asians, as genetically they're more adapted to doing well in these sort of events.

 

This isn't all coincidence, and we're all aware of it and it's not THAT taboo to talk about it. Though people are still careful about what they say as the PC brigade's ears prick up whenever you start such a conversation. Move it a step further though and start making other comparisons between the races (Eg intelligence) and suddenly you're a racist. But perhaps if we're rational about it for a moment and talk like adults it's simply that there ARE differences between us? Is it possible that when there's these glaring physical differences that mentally (In all respects, including intelligence and predisposition to commit crime) that we're all exactly equal? Of course not. But the very act of making that suggestion gets everyone very uncomfortable in their seats.

 

That's not to say, for example, that all black people are less intelligent than all white people or that all Asians are more intelligent than all white people. I'm sure there's millions of black people who are far more intelligent than myself for example and I'm certainly not racist in any way, shape or form. I'd like to point that out very strongly before the mongs descend, and if anything I'm posting the things I have in this thread just to give a balanced argument which is more fun than all of us just adding our own version of "Rebrov's a racist c***". I always ensure I treat everyone I meet as an individual, but that's the important thing - Treat people as individuals rather than treating everyone as equal, which they're blatantly not.

 

Many people have descended, quite understandably, on the "Rebrov's a racist c***" side of things but I'd have to say I'm yet to read anything where anyone has attempted to show that his comments are inaccurate, rather than just have a go at the guy and say he shouldn't have said it as he's a racist. Maybe burying such conversations under the "racist" banner isn't really that helpful in the long run?

 

Maybe what he's said is accurate, for whatever underlying reasons, and that areas with higher concentrations of black people are more likely to have higher concentrations of crime?

 

Maybe, if we were adult enough to acknowledge comments like this rather than burying our heads in the sand and refusing to discuss the matter beyond branding the speaker as a racist and a bigot, then that's the first step to addressing what could be a very real issue?

Your ignorance is quite astounding. I think it's scary that there are regular people like you walking around everyday with such thoughts in your head.

Maybe black people are poorer because they are less intelligent? Yikes.

Did all races start off on a level playing field? Or was a certain race's way of life forced upon another's. How much time has passed since then? How long do you figure it will take to overcome that? Especially as the one race were considered as nothing more than animals and weren't given the same opportunities as the other.

If Africans had invaded europe and forced white people to return to Africa as slaves and forced them to live as Africans did prior to colonialism, how would they have fared in those circumstances? Would things be exactly as they are now?

To be honest, I think the best thing ownership could have done is stay quiet and let the fans vent their anger and frustration.

 

The best thing they can do now is focus on getting the right man in this time around. It's time for action on their part and not more words which will onyl be rubbished by the fans anyway.

 

When the new manager is hired, then I'm sure we will hear a little more fromt hem regarding the appointment etc.

 

People honestly need to chill out.

 

Would you be happy with, say, Jonathan Douglas (Leeds captain under Wise) as manager first team coach?

I don't have a clue what the hell you are on about with this comment?

It's like half of the people on here have lost their senses in the last couple of weeks!

What does Jonathan Douglas have to do with my post?

To be honest, I think the best thing ownership could have done is stay quiet and let the fans vent their anger and frustration.

The best thing they can do now is focus on getting the right man in this time around. It's time for action on their part and not more words which will onyl be rubbished by the fans anyway.

When the new manager is hired, then I'm sure we will hear a little more fromt hem regarding the appointment etc.

People honestly need to chill out.

Wonder if he'll get as much stick as Owen if he gets fit, plays for the Argies again, and gets another injury..!??

What the hell are you on about?

kaka you getting tired of this yet?

Very tired ...

Apparently Keegan can do no wrong and Ashley can do no right, and it's as simple as that. No questions asked.

Quite frankly, I very much doubt that myself.

We all know Keegan loves the club wouldnt want to hurt us if he had a choice.  He was undermined, so resigned.

 

Any manager worth their salt would do the same.  KK is completely blame free.

Based on what?

You would think Keegan was the pope the way some people on here go on about him.

 

Wise is in charge of Jimenez, Vetere, and the coaches, and reports directly to Llambias, it's quite clear:

 

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1227633,00.html

 

He is clearly the one in ultimate charge of deciding who we sign and who we sell. If he chose to sign a player the manager specifically said he didn't want, which is Keegan's claim, then he is the person most responsible on the club's side for the consequences.

 

In such case I have no doubt whatsoever such a dispute would have been referred immediately to Llambias.

 

It's all speculation, but very good points are being made by the likes of KaKa, Edd, mrmojo et al - and not being adequately refuted. mrmojorisin75 suggests:

 

exactly edd - it all either points to something that wasn't cynical by the club but merely a breakdown over time between the parties involved

 

OR

 

keegan, as you say, was unhappy and had no say the whole time yet lied to the thousands of fans buying season tickets and let them pay 3 years in advance only to up ship and run at the last minute when it was all too late

 

if you believe he was lied to from day one then he's equally culpable in this respect, no?

 

So can Keegan's supporters please come up with something other than "It's all speculative bollocks" or "It's all Wise's fault"? UV asks

 

Yet you think Keegan signed up to be Jimenez' lacky? You think he signed up knowing the hierarchy would be Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan

 

I'd hardly call the authorisation of spending millions of pounds on players micro-managing btw.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

He said (with some cheekiness I'm sure) "I didn't have a brochure this time. It came like a whirlwind it is like one of those Lastminute.com holidays! There was no brochure I just came." Secondly, Wise had yet to be appointed, though one must assume negotiations with Wise had already commenced. So no, Keegan was not explicitly told that the hierarchy was Ashley -> Llambias -> Wise -> Jimenez -> Keegan.

 

However, if you think Ashley and Mort hired Keegan without telling him about the imminent appointment of an executive director (football), that Ashley and Mort duped Keegan into believing he would be an old-school manager with sweeping powers while secretly planning to go in exactly the opposite direction, well... I'll take Kaka's logic over yours thanks.

 

 

raconteur, very few people want to hear this, instead they prefer the following word associations:

 

cockney, lies, wise, southerner, season tickets, 3 years, fabrication, conspiracy

 

KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism

 

i'm still astounded that after years of shepherd leasing warehouses to the club, ridiculing the supporters publicly, taking massive dividends despite deteriorating results on the pitch (etc...) was affored so much time and never once was there a talk of a boycott of club products, marches, none of this s***...before anyone starts about balancing the books i'll point you to bobby robsons first 2 seasons for a parrallel on spend and manager...also to the sacking of bobby as well really

 

is anyone gonna look me in the internet eye and tell me this doesn't just boil down to a nice bit of dirty regionalism against a southern owner and nasty dennis?

 

anyone?  really?

 

 

 

if you want answers to that you just have to look over the board, probably hundreds of counter arguments. specifically the inaccurate "robson's first two seasons" stuff which has been responded to quite a few times. and i'm not sure what people are getting at by bringing up the Robson sacking as it is some defence of this board. are people saying "well shepherd did it so ashley is allowed to as well"? that's bloody daft if so. i criticised shepherd for his undermining of robson and handling of his departure, i'll do the same for Ashley in this equivalent situation. either you do it for both or neither, otherwise it's being blindly partisan.

 

s**** like "KK, no wrong, innocent, victim, beyond criticism" does everyone on here a disservice.

 

fuckof  johhny that's pish to be honest

 

i don't offer the robson book balancing as an excuse for ashley but it's the only reasonable thing i can see for people kicking off so much, the lack of spending...if it's not about the club not spending money on players then people should stop spouting the 3 years ST s*** no?  otherwise what're they fucken complaining about on that score?

 

this lies s*** is unreal - KK fucken lied to you all summer saying everything was OK didn't he?  that he had a wondeful relationship with everyone at the club, there was money to spend etc...

 

or were his lies OK 'cause he loved the club but ashleys/nasty dennis's are not OK for what reason exactly?

 

'fuckof  johhny that's pish'

 

are you drunk or something?

 

the Robson thing is rubbish because he was allowed to spend more once we had a cash windfall by way of the stadium expansion. if you want to look for an equivalent development today you look at the £18m extra TV money we received at the end of last season compared to the one before, along with the £6m saved in debt repayments. considering we broke even in our last accounts that should give us over £20m net to spend, or, if we want to be ambitious and use next season's income in advance, as many other clubs do, at least £40m. Mackems have spent something like £70m since coming up, and transfer inflation in general has spiked - overall summer spending gone from something like £265m to £540m in 2 years. yet we've spent little to nothing since ashley arrived.

 

personally i find facts like this more important than s**** like 'fuckof johhny' which you apparently find so superior.

 

as for Keegan lying, maybe he was putting on a brave face and trying to battle through the undermining and ridiculing as Robson did before him, and thought that while the window was open there was a still a chance he could leverage his position to get what we wanted for the club. or, as many assumed earlier in the window, that he had some sort of working relationship and consensus that disintegrated - perhaps because the two sides were squabbling over limited funds, and this came to a head in the last days of the window.

I think it's embarrassing how much people are caught up on how much we have spent. Comparing how much we have spent to the Mackems is laughable.

I take it that you would then prefer to exchange all the players Ashley has brought in for those that Quinn has, simply because they cost more. it's a silly way of thinking about things.

The fact is that we have brought in quality players under this new setup that Ashley has put in place, irrespective of the total cost of these players.

I personally am also inclined to believe that these sorts of purchases would have continued to be made if Keegan was familiar with more of these types of players, and was also not so caught up in keeping the likes of Smith and Barton.

It's all down to this hatred/mistrust of anything to do with Dennis Wise and/or londoners which is quite frankly baffling.

Say what you want about Wise, but the guy has tremendous contacts in the game, which are definitely beneficial to the club. Why people can't look past the player he was is beyond me.

It's a great point you make regarding Owen and Luque Elliotman.

Where in hell do you guys get this notion that Anil will be better than Ashley with the club, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest the contrary. Only a lot of wishful thinking from a lot of fans who fail to to see the long term, only the short. 

It's bloody ridiculous.

I think the idea is that he will be better because he might appoint Keegan yet again, and because evil Dennis Wise will no longer be at the club, and of course because he is not an evil Londoner.

Insanity.

Would be an absolute disaster imo.

 

Based on?

 

Never managed in the PL for a start. This isn't the time for an exotic coach, the rest of this season will become backs to the wall stuff very quickly. He won;t know what to do. IMO the time to expriment with a coach like Zico is when everything else is in place and that certainly isn't the case with us.

His assistant will be absolutely vital, and I believe the board will be looking to keep Houghton on board, who is very experienced in this league.

We need to stop playing it safe, it's time to take a risk. I don't think our team is so poor as to be threatened with relegation, so lets go for it. There are no outstanding, prem experienced candidates out there.

Looking at the amount of Brazilians that were at his previous employers I get the feeling he would want to sign his own players. Zico is very outspoken the last thing Specky, Fatty & Wisey want atm is a outspoken coach who wants to do his own signings.

 

 

So based on the number of Brazillians inhis Fenerbahce team, you have come to the conclusion that he is an outspoken coach who wants to "do" his own signings?!

I think I would rather take the mans words on board myself. He has stated, having obviously heard of all the hoopla that has taken place, that he is used to working with technical directors, and it isn't an issue for him, but instead, one that he finds normal to work in.