merlin

No good moaning about either set of fans or the clubs involved - just another reason to be disgusted at the way we have fallen by the wayside in recent years.. Even clubs like Leicester(look where they are now.!!)can brag that they won a domestic trophy in recent memory and not when our parents were young people...!!!

Its hardly surprising - Spurs are one of the clubs that we are now competing with for players - as there are so few that would not be naturally wanted by the Top 4, it is natural that Spurs(and Everton, Villa etc) will want them too..... Unfortunately, they can offer more than us - UEFA Cup football, Ramos' reputation internationally, a recent Cup win, and, most tellingly of all, London. Sorry for repeating this, but it will be a long hard road back to respectability and it will entail many set-backs and humiliations in the transfer market.

This is most likely outcome - there is no way players of this calibre are going to come to SJP until we make a huge improvement in our status ; that is why Wise & Co have to earn their corn - they need to spot the potential in young players BEFORE they become as sought after as Gomez.. All this stuff is just aimed at selling papers to gullible fans of any club mentioned - I would have thought NUFC fans would have learned their lesson by now, we are in a mess when it comes to attracting top talent, esp when it has matured. Come to think of it - wasn't Gomes the name of the father in the original 'Adams Family'....!!??

Surely, no-one is surprised ? A move for Smith by Boro would ; 1.Make Southgate appear as gormless as he looks 2.Cause an uproar among their fans in view of his performances at SJP Can't see it unless they become desperate....

Never ever believed that Sam was fit to lace O'Neill's boots - shows how wildly optimistic and gullible some people are....

I posted the a/m comments over a year ago - at that time, we didn't know Allardyce was to be manager and if I am honest, I probably wouldn't have retracted my comment about possibly making Top 7 even if I HAD known(I don't think anyone would have predicted the disaster Allardyce perpetrated..). However, these same comments could now be applied to the COMING season - even though I expect there will be more money for KK to spend than 25m. My comments about Villa & Spurs stand true today and you can add Everton to that list - I think we will have a hell of a job to finish higher than any of these 3 clubs, so 8th is probably the best we can reasonably expect next season ; anything better is a bonus.

Aye, I've notcied the same set of black and white specs on some. "Why wouldn't he leave club <x>? Outside the big four we're the best option OMG 52000 FANS WHO COULD SAY NO!?!?" SBR wasn't sacked just last week and we're not coming off the back of finishing 4th,3rd,5th; Souness, Roeder and Allardyce were in fact all employed here in the interim. We don't have European football to offer and our recent standing in the game is somewhat less than sterling. That said we can still offer massive wages and Keegan. So we'll see. Absolutely true - some fans are living in Cuckoo Land about NUFC still being a big draw. It will be tough enough even with KK on board - had we still had Allardyce etc it would have been almost impossible to compete with the likes of Spurs for top players - we have fallen a LONG way over the past 5 years and it will be a hard struggle to regain anything like our former status in the Prem.

NOBODY SHOULD BE KEPT AT ALL COSTS.....EVER Even Relegation, which would probably finish the club for several years...

You reckon he can hit nine goals in eleven games? For us? Ooooooooooh Just 2 short. So, no new contract for Owen then? Not on the same wage. Then you won't keep him. Owen can bugger off on a free after next season, and get a signing bonus at whatever UEFA-challenger club needs a top-quality striker. Those clubs, with no transfer fee, wouldn't have a problem managing his wages at 80k per week (his "cut" wage at NUFC) and he'd be at a club that might actually win something. Even better for him if it's in the NW, as he can sell his second home and the helicopter and save the money, thus making up his loss in wages. Same if he's sold this summer, though at least NUFC would recoup something for him, even if a meagre 7 mil (and Smith cost 6 mil...who sets these fees? It's utter insanity). See, here's what I don't understand: why do people think Owen should/would accept a cut? I wouldn't take a 30% cut in my wages. If I were offered such a deal, after finishing successfully on a major project for my employers (even if I'd had a serious illness and been out before that, say), I would say "F*** you" and find a different employer. Footballers are men too, with just as much (if not more) pride than any of the rest of us, and cutting wages is an insult. If I were in that position, I'd rather take the cut at a NEW employer than for the people who just spit in my face after I busted my arse for them. Especially if the new employer were a better one (more prestigious). Michael Owen is not Alan Shearer -- he has no ties to the Northeast other than his paycheque. Take that away and...what's keeping him here? It's not the scintillating football, or the bright prospects for his international career. His family lives in Wales, he said as much in a recent interview, and he commutes into Newcastle for work. Why insult him? Cutting his pay is an insult, which clearly says "you aren't worth what you're on, we don't really want you to stay." Without Owen, the new formation never would have even been thought up, and Newcastle might've been relegated, or at least further down the league. He's the top scorer in both League and total goals. He's captain. He's the best and most prestigious player at the club. He's finally fit (run of what, 20 matches?) and has scored 7 in the last 9. If the club turn around and offer him an insulting contract it only makes the club look bad. Especially since, let's be honest, Michael Owen is made of Teflon. Nothing sticks to this lad -- just enough rough edges to him (the horses and bit of gambling) to make him human, but he's so clean-cut he squeaks and he's an international and national favourite. Also -- a replacement could cost more than keeping him. Keeping him on the same terms would cost the club approximately 20-22 million over four years, correct? A replacement, if Crouch is being offered for 15 mil and Bent went last season for 17 mil, will cost between 12-15 mil in transfer fee, AT LEAST. So, then, that player would have to agree to wages of less than 7 million over 4 years, which comes to less than 34k/week -- just to break EVEN. This doesn't account for the loss of revenue from Owen, who moves a lot of kit internationally (and nationally) as well as providing royalties for the club for things like PES2008. All of that doesn't even add into the fact that Keegan -- the "messiah" manager -- has said Owen was to be his first and most important signing. If he doesn't get that, it could disrupt the club's relationship with Keegan, so there's the risk of the whole mess of ANOTHER new manager. For f***s sake, just pay the lad his extra money. Should he have been paid 100k/week to begin with? Probably not. But cutting it just doesn't make sense, in any way. Not financially, nor in terms of public relations. I can't imagine Ashley became a billionaire by not seeing the simplicity of this issue. Nail on head. Agreed, unfortunately - we are not in a position to replace Owen satisfactorily if the murmers about the budget are true, and we have no-one who will score goals as regularly as he would provodong he stays fit.

An appropriate end to a very poor season, notable mainly for its controversy off the pitch - this is as poor a side as we've ever had in the Prem, possibly the worst. There was more for KK to work with when he began his first stint as manager in 1992 than there is now - he was able to build the side around Kelly, Peacock and the youngsters like Clark, Elliott and Watson, but I cannot think of 5 players that are really up to top HALF Prem standard, never mind Top 6.. Worse still is the fact that it costs far more, even proportionally, to build a decent side now than it did then, and by the looks of things our budget will be about 40m max - doesn't sound like a recipe for early success of any kind and Wise & Co are going to really have to earn their corn if we are to unearth any hidden gems that might improve things quickly. There are lots of unanswered questions around the club right now and it will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens in the next 2 months. Willing to be convinced, but not highly optimistic about the immediate future of the side.

It would be no surprise to me if Owen DID go to Man U, and nor would I be surprised if the club accepted around 8m for him if the alternative is him running down his contract and going for free - lets face it, he aint going to accept a reduction of 2m a year, and nor would any other player if he had the chance to move on to a big club. People have to accept that there are going to be changes in the way the club has been run - we may not like everything that happens but the only alternative is not to buy tickets and I can't see that happening in a hurry... Lots will happen over the close season and nothing would surprise me - nothing that happens at NUFC ever does now - Oh wait - now if we won something decent...!!

Are you being serious, or is this a wind-up ? The philosophy pf the EU is DE-regulation !! That's the best one I've heard all year - ask people whose bins are emptied once a fortnight whether they agree - that is, of course, whether they know that it is because of an EU Directive that the Councils are doing this - its all to do with Land-fill etc. Also, try asking people losing their local PO whether they like it - again, another EU Directive, supposedly to allow 'Competition'... There are numerous examples but, as I have said before, this is a Football site. Okay, so I'm lazy and failed to specify precisely what I meant. So, if you will allow me, when I say "the philosophy of the EU is deregulation" I mean specifically and very narrowly to the sphere under discussion ie treating football as "normal employment" Starting with Bosman and leading inexorably to the Scottish (?) player who recently won the right to buy out his contract the EU has consistently and vigorously resisted any efforts of football to be seperated from normal EU employment laws - the very laws which allowed all these footballers to challenge what is(from a strictly economic/political perspective) at best an irregular and artifical marketplace. Which was the exact point I am making. Jean-Marc Bosman won the right for footballers to be treated as normal employees who could move freely once their contract of employment had expired - something that in the general labour market is taken as a given. It may very well be that a salary cap or draft system could be beneficial to football - but just like quotas on foreign players, it simply doesn't jive with the EU's labour philosophy. Sorry to be verbose but I had previously failed to make myself understood... OK, I see your point - whilst I agree that footballers should be able to move at the end of their contracts, I believe that it was primarily the Lawyers that pushed Bosman;s case - he was basically arguing for freedom of choice of your employer, and no-one can argue with that - however, as a general rule, I think that political interference in Football is NOT beneficial.

Are you being serious, or is this a wind-up ? The philosophy pf the EU is DE-regulation !! That's the best one I've heard all year - ask people whose bins are emptied once a fortnight whether they agree - that is, of course, whether they know that it is because of an EU Directive that the Councils are doing this - its all to do with Land-fill etc. Also, try asking people losing their local PO whether they like it - again, another EU Directive, supposedly to allow 'Competition'... There are numerous examples but, as I have said before, this is a Football site.

They already have plans, by limiting foreigners but at the end of the day UEFA can't do a whole lot change our PL, that is governed purely by the FA. FIFA being the world's governing body have some power however at the end of the day it'll be what the FA that makes decisions about the PL and they will do nothing to stop the gravy train it is on, they will quite rightly only sanction changes that favour English clubs not clubs in Spain, Italy or Latvia or wherever. I can see a day when UEFA and the PL lock horns and to be perfectly honest due to the worldwide appeal of the PL, I would back the FA to come out as winners. Nah. The FA are members of UEFA and FIFA. If it came down to brass tacks, England would be kicked out of the European Championships and the World Cup and English clubs would be turfed from the Champions League and the UEFA Cup. No way would the FA even dare to take UEFA on. The consequences of losing would be unimaginable. Don't kid yourself that UEFA is all-powerful - look at the attendances they get from English clubs in Euro competition then compare it with, say, the French - also, only a few clubs in Germany get attendances on par with English clubs, as is the situation with Spain... Money talks - people who don't know the facts say the UK couldn't manage without the EU - absolute rubbish...it just isn't true, and UEFA need England in it for the dosh just as much as so-called 'Top' English clubs need UEFA competition...in many ways, it would benefit the whole English game if we were not allowed to compete there, as there would be more emphasis on producing our own players and there would be more chance of a variety of clubs winning the 3 main competitions.

Looked an absolute World Beater when he made his first major International Tournament in France in 1995 - remember him absolutely bamboozling the Italian defence during their game.. Suffered a serious ankle injury after signing for Betis and was never the same since... A great pity, as I reckon he was potentially Brazil's best winger since Jairzinho of the 1970 side. Ankle injuries are one of the worst a footballer can get, even worse than cruciate ligament injuries these days - look how Kewell and Ashton have both been out for long spells with them, and in Kewell's case, he definitely has never recaptured his Leeds form at Liverpool - the jury is still out on Ashton......

There are some good points in this article, and some stupid ones - as you would expect from any Red Top newspaper.. They are quite correct to draw the comparison with Arsenal's spend because without any doubt, Wenger has proved himself , in my opinion, as the best manager in the game ; he has kept Arsenal among the Top 4 despite having a much smaller budget than the likes of Fergie AND had them playing good football too, so no argument on that point. He has also made some stunning deals - signing Anelka for 600,000, then selling him to Real for 21m was an incredible piece of business as he got rid of a moody player into the bargain..! Compare that with our signings of Boumsong, Maric, Goma, Guiv'Arch, etc etc etc......and how often did we make a profit on players we bought and then sold on ? The only 2 major ones which come to mind are Woodgate and , in KKs time, Huckerby - and these were not in the same street as Wenger's deal for Anelka... Where Wenger has an advantage over ANY Newcastle manager is in his club's geographical position - any promising young player, esp from abroad, is more likely to want to go to London than to Newcastle - the same is also true of top experienced players who would choose Arsenal etc above NUFC because of the likelihood of winning medals, so Newcastle always have to pay over the odds for top players which distorts the statistics this article makes about is being in the Top 4 spenders - we HAVE to be just to get anywhere NEAR Top 6, never mind Top 4... Where I have some sympathy for this article and the points it makes is in the area of value-for-money ; No-one could argue that even at 15m, Shearer was great value for money, as were the likes of Solano and Hamman under Dalglish, and Rob Lee, Andy Cole and Beresford etc under KK, BUT - if you look back over the past 10 years which is what this article deals with, the type of player that has been signed by NUFC has largely been pathetic for the money spent, and that also applies to many bought by SBR..nobody can dispute that, so we have a situation where Ashley & Co have looked at the club's dealings(even Owen, who whilst being an undoubted class player who has probably saved our skins this year)and concluded that money has been badly wasted - and I TOTALLY agree with that.. However, where I have some difficulty in sympathising with Ashley is that, if he wanted the type of manager that Wenger is, he should not have appointed KK in the first place - we all know KKs strengths and weaknesses, and developing young players is not one of his greatest strengths - he prefers to sign experienced players and many managers do. However, Ashley needed someone to steady the SJP ship quickly, and KK was the best man for the job at the time. At present, we HAVE to get some players in that category, because there are too many weaknesses in the side to bring in youngsters, but a balance is required. I have more sympathy with those who have a dig at Benitez, for he HAS been well-supported in the market(NUFC fans would have hero-worshipped him for signing Torres had he been manager at SJP..) and still wants more, but some of his buys have been less successful, and Directors don't want 'less successful' when they have paid out millions plus huge wages for under performing 'stars', and who can blame them ? The big problem is that NUFC fans have seen their club spend big money and been rewarded by mediocre football and no silverware, so there is more impatience - naturally - than would be the case at many other clubs who have not spent such vast outlays - this means greater priority on immediate success in future, which is unlikely to happen given the policies of the people involved ; that doesn't mean it WON'T happen, but it is less likely. How patient the parties involved - fans, Manager and Directors - are to wait for this happening will be the key factor in what happens over the next couple of years and whether we still have the same manager - OR Directors - after that time...!!

Even more reason to sign a new target man - Always thought that we would have to anyway, Viduka has only a year or two left, and that is when fit...CF is a priority as is creative midfielder another CB and left sided midfielder if Zog leaves..

There won't be ANY revolt by fans if KK leaves unless the club appoint a replacement who has no real credentials - when did NUFC fans EVER boycott the club apart from when SJH was battling McKeag for control in 1988 ..? Why was there no boycott when SBR was fired and Souness appointed ? It just won't happen.. I don't believe KK is about to be sacked unless it gets really get heated at this meeting and things get out of hand and in any case, Ashley would realise that it would be very risky to fire KK unless he had a real top-notcher like Mourinho lined up. Hopefully this will blow over, but people need to learn from it....

Yes, that was some day - Kelly & Cole both getting hat-tricks, 6-0 at half-time, new Asics strip being worn for the first time, SJH trying(painfully) to sing 'We are the Champions' along with Queen over the PA system at the end, and having a bloody good drink...an absolutely fantastic day ; I saw Jack Charlton in the corridor of the Milburn Stand just after the final whistle & even he said ' What a fabulous day!' That's what I prefer to remember about May 9th - in 1993...

And what happens to the club when Ashley & Co 'F--- Off '!?? Suppose someone like Shinawatra takes over and fancies a new manager ... Will you want THEM to 'F-- Off' too ? Lets get real here - Ashley has a reputation for getting his own way, and being completely ruthless about doing so(have you read how he stitched Whelan & Co up about price fixing...largely because Whelan tried to take the p--- out of him and belittle him....?) Don't fall into the trap of thinking KK can totally rule the roost with Ashley, because I for one doubt that very much - Ashley is unlikely to fire him for this, but you can bet your boots that he won't forget and if anything like this crops up again, he will be planning his moves for future ref - look what happened with Mourinho and Abramovitch - if anyone looked safe it was Jose, but he went and Chelsea are still in the running for the title..Ashley will not have overlooked that fact. He is the owner whether anyone likes it or not, and can do as he pleases. It might pay people to remember that - Ashley has more power over the club than Shepherd did....

I am sorry that this is a long post, guys, but this is a very important topic - the outcome will determine where the club goes in the next few years, and how fast... Firstly, leaving aside the usual media s--t stirring(they are probably seething that we escaped the drop and they were proved wrong about KK, plus they have it in for Ashley - Southerner who has taken over a NORTHERN sleeping giant), there are some crucial issues at stake here.Also, the fact that it is not just the usual media suspects who have got into this story but a reasonably-well respected paper like the Telegraph makes me fear that there may be more substance in this than some are prepared to admit.. Firstly, I have always been somewhat sceptical of the reasons for Wise' appointment - YES we need someone to oversee the Playing side in terms of admin, Scouting for new players(esp youngsters) etc etc. BUT - Wise is only a young man to be doing this sort of job.He is in his early 40s, an age when most people in football who progress from playing are either Coaches or managers, and Wise has just come from another club where he was performing exactly that job(with some success, apparently). Although KK claims to have been comfortable with the appointment, I would really like to know how much either he(or Chris Mort)were consulted before this was done. The story in the Mail seems to say that the main problem is that Wise, Vetteri & Jiminez are looking for players who are younger and whose value will hopefully increase during their time at SJP, whereas KK wants 'finished article' type of players to make a more immediate impact on the side and to help the club close the gap between us and the Top 4 more quickly. IF this is true, I believe there should be a balance between these 2 philosophies - we cannot hope to sign the very best players, but the best of what is left ; that is basically what KK said. However, to sign only experienced players leaves us with the possibility of getting those who will only give us a few seasons and then injuries etc catch up with them ; also, some will be doing what others have to this club in years past, and using us for a final hefty pay-day. Conversely, if we sign only youngsters, there is the chance of a season or two of mediocrity(at best)until they get enough strength & experience to compete with the best, so a balance is needed. I believe that KK is probably 60+% right in what he said and if he intends to thrash out all this with Ashley; he is RIGHT to want the final say over who the club sign and RIGHT to want to know the extent of the Budget - any decent manager would want the same..he should also be assured that Wise & Co are NOT going to usurp his job as manager(any of us would want the same..) Where I start to slightly-disagree with him is his assertion that we will not challenge the Top 4 in the 3 years he is here ; again, though, he might be RIGHT, IF he has definite proof that Ashley is not going to give him a reasonable budget for players, but as far as we know, he DOESN'T know how much he is getting so how can he make such a definite statement ? We all know that there is a huge gap to bridge, but, as some have said, things can change quickly - Liverpool could implode, Man U may have to face cash restrictions due to the increasing cost of servicing their huge debt, Wenger could leave Arsenal - none of us know what lies ahead, so to second-guess what will happen in 3 years is pushing it...I reckon that if they spend well, Villa will have a decent chance of pushing the Top 4 over the next season or two, and that would be within 3-4 years of O'Neill taking over. Secondly, being a cynic(us older guys have seen more than the young ones, hence this happening..!), I cannot help but wonder whether Ashley's reputed annoyance at KKs statements and his insistence on KK going to see him in London so quickly may be linked to the situation at Man City....it looks almost certain that Sven is on his bike and the fact that Shinawatra's first choice, Mourinho,has not yet committed himself one way or the other,may just have alerted the powers that be to the fact that some top managerial names are on the loose......Who knows what happens in Football, and who would be surprised at anything.....!! I have to say I am very disappointed that this has blown up - I really hope it IS all media hype(based on the fact that Ashley won't usually talk to them), and although I have total sympathy with KKs main gripes, I can understand that the club DON'T want details of their available spend being made public. I can also understand certain players wanting KK to have a more positive attitude to the future, but these are in the minority - the majority of NUFC players are not good enough to want rapid progress, as they will be left by the wayside.. KK IS very honest and that is an admirable quality, but, sadly, one that is often abused in the sleazy and cut-throat world of the Prem. He actually didn't need to tell most fans about the size of the task - most of us know that already - but by doing so he has invited accusations of negativity. We must hope that if this is a calculated bluff to force Ashley's hand , it doesn't rebound on him ; the club is in an entirely different situation now than when he did it last time, and we could end up looking for a new manager - that is, unless one is already lined up...! The next couple of days should be interesting.

Wouldn't touch this horrible individual with the proverbial barge-pole ; if we have to resort to signing prats like him, the club has fallen much farther than anyone thinks... I hope we can now forget being a care home for all the odd balls and so-called 'quirky' players in the game...

Wouldn't be surprised if we start next season with at least 1, and possibly 2, new CBs - whilst Taylor is improving, I don't think KK is totally convinced right now, and probably does NOT rate Faye as being of the standard he requires ; people go on about Enrique not being a 'KK type of fullback' and if that is the case, Faye is not a KK type of CB ; think about Phillipe Albert and you will know what I mean...!

I will be surprised if he signs more than 4 players - a Target man/CF, midfield creator, LB(Bridge?) and CB(Cuellar/Dunne?) ; that will use around 40m of the budget and any further buys will have to come from the sales of players deemed surplus(such as Ameobi, reputedly 4m,Smith and maybe even N'Zogbia). If we receive good fees for some that leave then I expect maybe 5 or 6 new players by next season. I am not worried about Ashley not supporting KK in the market, but there will not be a bottomless pit, esp as Ashley has reputedly lost over 100m on the Stockmarket recently - as I said before, I am more concerned at how he proposes to attract the players of the calibre we need ; Dunne is a possible bearing in mind his links with KK in the past, and perhaps Bridge could be tempted from Chelsea ; Cuellar MIGHT be bought from Rangers but its not a certainty as they can almost certainly give him European football next season. The CF could be a real tough one - maybe the likes of Ashton are possible, as is Crouch and as for the midfield, we may be forced into bringing a player at the back end of his career, such as Deco although I wonder whether he would stay with the week-in, week-out pace of the Prem. Joe Cole would be a great signing, but I cannot see it happening.... All these are, like everything else being said on this thread, are speculation - KK will have his own ideas, but we certainly need an injection of pace & skill into the side in every area of the field.