timnufc22

People suspect he is an interference with the first team, and dont agree with that - the suspicion has grown because of any lack of denial from Wise himself.

Or maybe people dont agree with the job? That's hardly Wise's fault. Its not his fault personally no. A lot of people are not happy with his percieved role, the potential interference & conflict it may bring.

Or maybe people dont agree with the job? You don't think we should have someone in dedicated to bringing in young talent to fill our academy? No, I think we should, and if that is Wise's role then thats brilliant. But it seems that his role also makes him involved in the transfers of first team players, thats what I have a problem with.

Or maybe people dont agree with the job?

I think Wise should have, say, 3-4m for getting some cheap bargains for the first team. Certainly the manager should have the control but it isn't a bad idea to give Wise a small budget when he's doing extensive scouting. I understand the potential of that, but for me it should be 100% the manager. Wise might even bring in a good player, but dosent nessicarily fit into the dynamic of the team the manager is building. And once players are signed who do not turn out to be any good, it falls apart, because its the manager who is accountable. Should be either general scout, or recruiting young/academy players imo.

What happens if the manager doesn't have any scouts? Do you remember when Glen Roeder was here and he went scouting Dirk Kuyt even though he had already agreed to join Liverpool, then complained after that the club only had one scout at the club? The manager should be able to appoint whoever/how many scouts he wants. He's the most important man at the football club, therefore should be able to create the structure he wants, and the club should be moulded around the manager in a way. Like David Moyes at Everton, on a low budget.

After all thats went on, and because of the lack of communication, I am suspicous & worried about how much power he has. And in the long run, I also dont agree with him bieng involved in the recruitment of the first team. Academy/younger players, no problem, seemingly fine work already been done in that department, and a refreshing change too. Imo the first team should be managed 100% by the manager, who has signs the players he wants, has his own set up of scouts, all on the budget given to him. So it is clear & precise, see the thread: http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,59613.msg1663112.html#msg1663112

True, but I think the general opinion was 'providing we add a midfielder & full-backs'.

Ashley Young in line for new contract By Andy Walker on Aug 18, 08 08:28 AM in Journalists VILLA star Ashley Young is hoping to land himself a bumper new deal with Martin O'Neill's men. The England winger, 23, sees himself as Villa's most valuable asset behind Gareth Barry, whose future in the West Midlands is still not clear. And having watched fellow starlet Gabby Agbonlahor put pen-to-paper on a new four-year deal last week and John Carew sign a one-year extension, Young wants to follow suit. The ex-Watford man is 18 months into the four-and-a-half year contract that he signed when he arrived from Vicarage Road last year, a deal that earns him between £30,000 and £35,000 a week. Now Young is hoping to commit his future further and secure a package worth closer to £70,000 per week. Young has proved the critics, who slammed the £9.65 million fee that Villa paid for him, wrong by producing sparking form at Villa Park. The Stevenage-born star has gone on to win three England caps and is considered one of the Premier League's hottest young stars. And after O'Neill has spent all summer fending off competition for Barry, the Irishman won't want to have to do the same for Young. O'Neill said: "Ashley has been fantastic for us. I'm pleased Gabby and John have signed new contracts and we've got a couple more players that we are looking to do exactly the same with - with Ashley Young being one of them. "We are in conversation about that. I don't think the chairman (Randy Lerner) has any major problem about sorting out wages for people if they are doing the business week in and week out on the pitch. "Agbonlahor has done that in my two seasons here, Carew has been terrific since being swapped with Milan Baros (at Lyon) and Young has been absolute class. "It means he will get a new contract. Ashley hasn't come and asked for anything. "He has got a number of years left to run on his contract but I'd like to sort him out and I am sure he is enjoying his football here which is great. "If he continues to play in the fashion he is for us, who knows what might happen to him in the future but we would be delighted to keep him a bit longer." Agbonlahor has had a number of extendions too, Barry will be on a fairly high wages? Just be interesting to see what villa's wages are like on the whole.

That interview looks like it is from last year. Is indeed, I'd just never saw it, and has points/debate that still remain now.

Interesting Shearer interview about it all. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/7601194.stm

Where did you find that? Do they have a similar summary about us? Loss before tax £33m Debts £79m - £59m paid off by Ashley Interest payable £6m Ownership Mike Ashley,via his company, St James' Holdings Limited. The state it's in The tragic half of Mike Ashley's tragi-farce is that he can justly claim to be a financial benefactor. In September 2007 he paid off £59m loans taken out while Freddy Shepherd was the chairman and major shareholder. Ashley apparently paid real money, rather than make loans of his own. But financial responsibility counts for sadly little while Newcastle are scuffling at the bottom of the table and Dennis Wise is director of football. Verdict Even if crowds fall further, they are unlikely to struggle financially because of Ashley's backing, until he manages to sell the club.

Aston Villa Loss before tax £2.8m Debts £63.8m Interest payable £2.7m Ownership Reform Acquisitions LLC, an American company owned ultimately by US resident Randy Lerner The state it's in Full houses enjoying muscular football thanks to Martin O'Neill's coaching and Randy Lerner's ownership mean happy days at Villa Park. Unlike the North American owners of Manchester United and Liverpool, Lerner has not loaded his own borrowings on to the club, and has put real cash in. While Lerner, a billionaire and now Villa's chairman, stands behind the club, Villa look sound. Verdict Villa's debts are not huge, particularly given Lerner's support, and ticket prices among the lowest in the Premier League maintain crowds. How does this compare?

If you want to go on rumours about finance, then the rumours were Dennis Wise & Llambias treated Keegan with a lack of respect, and its not like the board havent treat the fans with contempt is it? I can imagine how frustrating it could have been accepting the system, but then seemingly losing more & more control, potentially going from 'we only bring in players you want' to 'this is the player we need to bring in'. Here's an interview with richard bevan from lma at the time http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/7601211.stm

I don't think anyone knows for a fact that Wise was the one bringing in players that the manager didn't want, for all we know it could have been Tony Jinenez, who was the head of player recruitment while here and had close links with the Spanish teams. The only reason Wise would be negotiating deals now is because Jimenez has gone. Have you got a link to where Keegan said he didn't want Xisco? Because the only interview I've seen where the 2 are mentioned is from Xisco when he first signed, saying Keegan met him and told him about his plans for the club, not really something you would do if you didn't want the player is it. Wise's role has always been improving the club through the academy and scouting network until I hear different, he's seems to be making a good job of both too. They're not going to either, why come out in the January window when the club is apparently looking for players and saying your manager is full of s***? Okay then, the lack of clarity on Jimmenez' role... that angered people that it wasnt very clear. Keegan's statement saying he dosent believe a player should be brought in he dosent want, whoever it is, it might not be Xisco, it might be, whoever it was most people believe someone was brought in he didnt want. But there is concern about how much power he has - whether he had, or now has, the say on some players coming in & going out, which was sparked by Keegan resigning. Why should they come out?? Because its very confusing, there are mixed messages bieng sent out by Kinnear, and some simple words without saying 'the manager is full of shit' from bloody Llambias the Chairman could potentially make some of the confusion clearer.

We've never had a Chairman (or MD) in the past go to the training ground to speed up transfers, I can't see how this will make any difference. Basically, the manager is saying it will help things, and if thats the case then why wasnt he doing it in the first place. Then its 'but Kinnear's talking tripe'... then why dosent Llambias himself come out and talk about the current sitaution regarding transfers?

I can see most of what you're saying but Kinnear didn't have to get Llambias to travel to Newcastle, he moved him from St James' to the training ground. Thats fair do's if he was already here, but just simply Kinnear saying he asked the Chairman to do something that would benefit/speed up the transfer window dealings, and needing to be told to do it, instead of knowing this anyway because he's the chairman, gives a very bad impression.

Yes, definetely there is a tendancy to look for a hero & villain, and I think that its understandable that Ashley has been tight with money. And in reality there is obviously more of a balance to the deabte of Ashley, like most things. The academy looks to be shaping up well, and its a refreshing change to see good potential bieng brought to the club. No, I dont think he would release a statement to ruin the SBR say either. But the anger does come from other things like: The silence from the club in amongst the chaos at the club. The seemingly dis-honesty about Dennis Wise' role - at first it was 'working with the academy, to look at, and bring in, young players from around the world', then it seems to go to simply 'bringing players in'. Most people believe Keegan that Xisco was brought in without him wanting him. The lack of clarity about the bloody structure now - okay they cant talk about Wise's role then because of legal reasons - why not talk about it now?. When he took the club off the market, why not say 'With regards to the scrutiny of Dennis' position, his position from this point is...' ? Or why not hear from the man himself? They havent responded to any claims from Kinnear, why? Why is Llambias the Chairman, yet does not talk? Fans are hearing they are offering Kinnear a 2 year contract, that causes anger because it shows a lack of ambition. It also gives the impression that the position is not a very credible one, if they are talking about securing Kinnear's position for another 2 years, instead of keeping there options open until the summer, and attempting to get in a better manager. Hearing Kinnear saying he had to ring Llambias for him to base himself in Newcastle this window causes anger, as does hearing Kinnear say he dosent think the board realise what danger we are in - Again, you could say'well Kinnears talking tripe', well if so, why not show yourself in a more favourable light by speaking & clafifying the situation? It also causes anger for me because imo the manager is the most importnant man, and imo David Moyes shows an alternative way to dealing with a budget.

I know what you mean, but surley he wouldnt mention something like that if its literally never been discussed? Even thinking about a new contract for Kinnear at this stage is crazy & so un-ambitious. Why wouldn't he mention it if he's constantly talking rubbish? Because I just think there's a limit to the amount of rubbish to come out with, and making a claim like that, when completely false, would be crossing the line even for him. Might be wrong though.

It's fair to say they haven't done it on a regular basis yet but it's not fair to say that they don't want to now just because thay haven't with NUSC. No, just the way I see it, Ashley, Wise & Llambias have all been incredibly reulactant to talk about any issues to the fans in general, say though media/tv interview. I think they have a total lack of respect for the fans, and in general would always want to keep silent. They might well start talking, especially with NUSC, who are definetely a chance for them to. But they've had so much time now to talk and refused, even in amongst the worry, anger & question marks surrounding the club, so any improvement in terms of communication would simply seem through gritted teeth & reluctantly, as like I said, I think they have a total lack og respect for the fans. In that case, I'd rather they didnt now seemingly reluctantly say some nice words 'to shut us up' & I wouldnt even trust it anyway. I'd rather they simply sold up. Easier said than done, obviously.

I know what you mean, but surley he wouldnt mention something like that if its literally never been discussed? Even thinking about a new contract for Kinnear at this stage is crazy & so un-ambitious.

They clearly don't want to communicate with who? The fans.

Exactly. If the case is you cant judge Ashley's ambition by signings because of money bieng tight, then fair do's. Where we can judge his ambition is which manager he wants to appoint, and talking about a 2 year contract for Kinnear screams zero ambition. Is it not because he is (hopefully in their eyes) a yes man surley? Preying on the fact he's desparate to be in work, and chuffed to be at Newcastle? If the structure with Wise etc is perfectly acceptable, then why not show that by getting a better manager in?

Tbh, they shouldnt be 'reluctantly' communicating, they should either want to or not, and they clearly dont.

Nope, the accounts have revealled a damn sight more than the 'deafening silence'. /and it's dragged up to Newcastle if you don't mind. There ya go lol. But the how easy would it have been to avoid the total silence? Its so unavoidable, it says so much they cant be arsed to just simply come in front of a camera and talk to the fans, its disgraceful treatment, and if they really cared they'd at least get that right. I totally agree, communication since things went tits up has been dreadful, but then (and I'm not defending them here, just trying to work it out) whatever they said (or might have said) post Keegan was either dismissed or classed as lies. There is not a lot they could say that would have be taken seriously during the period we were up for sale either to be fair. It is a different matter now that we are off the market though. They have said they will get back to us after the transfer window has closed. Fine. But preferably they should be feeding us reasurances and keeping us in touch all the time now because any one off press releases (with, as you picked up on, the usual statements about driving the club forward without expanding on just how we might do that) are going to be disected to hell with little sympathy from many. That's not what they need to get the pie boycotters back on board. The FACT statement was looked upon for what it was - slimy, pathetic & despite all the FACTS, lacking in clarity after what had just happened. Lets just say Keegan wasnt lied to, and his claim was false. After he said 'My opinion is a manager shouldnt have a player imposed on him he dosent want', why not say 'we have not & would never bring in a player that the manager does not want. Despite bieng turned down/missing out on some transfer targets, it has not happened in this case & would never happen in the future. Clarity. But the most obivous conclusion is, they couldnt say that, because thats what they potentially were doing. And why not release a statement/do an interview on bloody tv. Most the statements dont even have a name to them. I agree, they we're in a difficult situation in the way people we're baying for blood, but at least an attempt to explain things on camrea would have went some way to helping. But they didnt want to do that, because imo they dont give a crap, & their attitude stinks. Even when things died down a bit, when anything said would have been looked up upon less dissmisively, there was nothing. We just heard about their supposed actions from Kinnear, such as the master plan of discussing a 2 year contract. If Keegan is chasing the club for constructive dismissal then that's the likely reason they haven't commented on it, so to say they haven't done an interview on camera because they don't give a crap is rubbish. As for the gagging order on Keegan over transfers, I thought it was a great idea at the time as did many others on here. How many wish they would do the same with Kinnear now? Fair do's if the legal side of things stopped them talking about Keegan. And say what? 'no comment'? Just because you talk about how you want to improve your squad, how things are potentially looking, looking dosent mean you have to go to the other end of the spectrum of Kinnears talk. So why not do an interview regarding Joe Kinnear and the short term plan when he was brought on board? And what about when he was kept on for the rest of the season? Does Llambias have an opnion? Why does it take the manager to ask the Chairman to be based in Newcastle for the transfer window if he care's so much?