timnufc22

Where did you find that? Do they have a similar summary about us? Loss before tax £33m Debts £79m - £59m paid off by Ashley Interest payable £6m Ownership Mike Ashley,via his company, St James' Holdings Limited. The state it's in The tragic half of Mike Ashley's tragi-farce is that he can justly claim to be a financial benefactor. In September 2007 he paid off £59m loans taken out while Freddy Shepherd was the chairman and major shareholder. Ashley apparently paid real money, rather than make loans of his own. But financial responsibility counts for sadly little while Newcastle are scuffling at the bottom of the table and Dennis Wise is director of football. Verdict Even if crowds fall further, they are unlikely to struggle financially because of Ashley's backing, until he manages to sell the club.

Aston Villa Loss before tax £2.8m Debts £63.8m Interest payable £2.7m Ownership Reform Acquisitions LLC, an American company owned ultimately by US resident Randy Lerner The state it's in Full houses enjoying muscular football thanks to Martin O'Neill's coaching and Randy Lerner's ownership mean happy days at Villa Park. Unlike the North American owners of Manchester United and Liverpool, Lerner has not loaded his own borrowings on to the club, and has put real cash in. While Lerner, a billionaire and now Villa's chairman, stands behind the club, Villa look sound. Verdict Villa's debts are not huge, particularly given Lerner's support, and ticket prices among the lowest in the Premier League maintain crowds. How does this compare?

If you want to go on rumours about finance, then the rumours were Dennis Wise & Llambias treated Keegan with a lack of respect, and its not like the board havent treat the fans with contempt is it? I can imagine how frustrating it could have been accepting the system, but then seemingly losing more & more control, potentially going from 'we only bring in players you want' to 'this is the player we need to bring in'. Here's an interview with richard bevan from lma at the time http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/7601211.stm

I don't think anyone knows for a fact that Wise was the one bringing in players that the manager didn't want, for all we know it could have been Tony Jinenez, who was the head of player recruitment while here and had close links with the Spanish teams. The only reason Wise would be negotiating deals now is because Jimenez has gone. Have you got a link to where Keegan said he didn't want Xisco? Because the only interview I've seen where the 2 are mentioned is from Xisco when he first signed, saying Keegan met him and told him about his plans for the club, not really something you would do if you didn't want the player is it. Wise's role has always been improving the club through the academy and scouting network until I hear different, he's seems to be making a good job of both too. They're not going to either, why come out in the January window when the club is apparently looking for players and saying your manager is full of s***? Okay then, the lack of clarity on Jimmenez' role... that angered people that it wasnt very clear. Keegan's statement saying he dosent believe a player should be brought in he dosent want, whoever it is, it might not be Xisco, it might be, whoever it was most people believe someone was brought in he didnt want. But there is concern about how much power he has - whether he had, or now has, the say on some players coming in & going out, which was sparked by Keegan resigning. Why should they come out?? Because its very confusing, there are mixed messages bieng sent out by Kinnear, and some simple words without saying 'the manager is full of shit' from bloody Llambias the Chairman could potentially make some of the confusion clearer.

We've never had a Chairman (or MD) in the past go to the training ground to speed up transfers, I can't see how this will make any difference. Basically, the manager is saying it will help things, and if thats the case then why wasnt he doing it in the first place. Then its 'but Kinnear's talking tripe'... then why dosent Llambias himself come out and talk about the current sitaution regarding transfers?

I can see most of what you're saying but Kinnear didn't have to get Llambias to travel to Newcastle, he moved him from St James' to the training ground. Thats fair do's if he was already here, but just simply Kinnear saying he asked the Chairman to do something that would benefit/speed up the transfer window dealings, and needing to be told to do it, instead of knowing this anyway because he's the chairman, gives a very bad impression.

Yes, definetely there is a tendancy to look for a hero & villain, and I think that its understandable that Ashley has been tight with money. And in reality there is obviously more of a balance to the deabte of Ashley, like most things. The academy looks to be shaping up well, and its a refreshing change to see good potential bieng brought to the club. No, I dont think he would release a statement to ruin the SBR say either. But the anger does come from other things like: The silence from the club in amongst the chaos at the club. The seemingly dis-honesty about Dennis Wise' role - at first it was 'working with the academy, to look at, and bring in, young players from around the world', then it seems to go to simply 'bringing players in'. Most people believe Keegan that Xisco was brought in without him wanting him. The lack of clarity about the bloody structure now - okay they cant talk about Wise's role then because of legal reasons - why not talk about it now?. When he took the club off the market, why not say 'With regards to the scrutiny of Dennis' position, his position from this point is...' ? Or why not hear from the man himself? They havent responded to any claims from Kinnear, why? Why is Llambias the Chairman, yet does not talk? Fans are hearing they are offering Kinnear a 2 year contract, that causes anger because it shows a lack of ambition. It also gives the impression that the position is not a very credible one, if they are talking about securing Kinnear's position for another 2 years, instead of keeping there options open until the summer, and attempting to get in a better manager. Hearing Kinnear saying he had to ring Llambias for him to base himself in Newcastle this window causes anger, as does hearing Kinnear say he dosent think the board realise what danger we are in - Again, you could say'well Kinnears talking tripe', well if so, why not show yourself in a more favourable light by speaking & clafifying the situation? It also causes anger for me because imo the manager is the most importnant man, and imo David Moyes shows an alternative way to dealing with a budget.

I know what you mean, but surley he wouldnt mention something like that if its literally never been discussed? Even thinking about a new contract for Kinnear at this stage is crazy & so un-ambitious. Why wouldn't he mention it if he's constantly talking rubbish? Because I just think there's a limit to the amount of rubbish to come out with, and making a claim like that, when completely false, would be crossing the line even for him. Might be wrong though.

It's fair to say they haven't done it on a regular basis yet but it's not fair to say that they don't want to now just because thay haven't with NUSC. No, just the way I see it, Ashley, Wise & Llambias have all been incredibly reulactant to talk about any issues to the fans in general, say though media/tv interview. I think they have a total lack of respect for the fans, and in general would always want to keep silent. They might well start talking, especially with NUSC, who are definetely a chance for them to. But they've had so much time now to talk and refused, even in amongst the worry, anger & question marks surrounding the club, so any improvement in terms of communication would simply seem through gritted teeth & reluctantly, as like I said, I think they have a total lack og respect for the fans. In that case, I'd rather they didnt now seemingly reluctantly say some nice words 'to shut us up' & I wouldnt even trust it anyway. I'd rather they simply sold up. Easier said than done, obviously.

I know what you mean, but surley he wouldnt mention something like that if its literally never been discussed? Even thinking about a new contract for Kinnear at this stage is crazy & so un-ambitious.

They clearly don't want to communicate with who? The fans.

Exactly. If the case is you cant judge Ashley's ambition by signings because of money bieng tight, then fair do's. Where we can judge his ambition is which manager he wants to appoint, and talking about a 2 year contract for Kinnear screams zero ambition. Is it not because he is (hopefully in their eyes) a yes man surley? Preying on the fact he's desparate to be in work, and chuffed to be at Newcastle? If the structure with Wise etc is perfectly acceptable, then why not show that by getting a better manager in?

Tbh, they shouldnt be 'reluctantly' communicating, they should either want to or not, and they clearly dont.

Nope, the accounts have revealled a damn sight more than the 'deafening silence'. /and it's dragged up to Newcastle if you don't mind. There ya go lol. But the how easy would it have been to avoid the total silence? Its so unavoidable, it says so much they cant be arsed to just simply come in front of a camera and talk to the fans, its disgraceful treatment, and if they really cared they'd at least get that right. I totally agree, communication since things went tits up has been dreadful, but then (and I'm not defending them here, just trying to work it out) whatever they said (or might have said) post Keegan was either dismissed or classed as lies. There is not a lot they could say that would have be taken seriously during the period we were up for sale either to be fair. It is a different matter now that we are off the market though. They have said they will get back to us after the transfer window has closed. Fine. But preferably they should be feeding us reasurances and keeping us in touch all the time now because any one off press releases (with, as you picked up on, the usual statements about driving the club forward without expanding on just how we might do that) are going to be disected to hell with little sympathy from many. That's not what they need to get the pie boycotters back on board. The FACT statement was looked upon for what it was - slimy, pathetic & despite all the FACTS, lacking in clarity after what had just happened. Lets just say Keegan wasnt lied to, and his claim was false. After he said 'My opinion is a manager shouldnt have a player imposed on him he dosent want', why not say 'we have not & would never bring in a player that the manager does not want. Despite bieng turned down/missing out on some transfer targets, it has not happened in this case & would never happen in the future. Clarity. But the most obivous conclusion is, they couldnt say that, because thats what they potentially were doing. And why not release a statement/do an interview on bloody tv. Most the statements dont even have a name to them. I agree, they we're in a difficult situation in the way people we're baying for blood, but at least an attempt to explain things on camrea would have went some way to helping. But they didnt want to do that, because imo they dont give a crap, & their attitude stinks. Even when things died down a bit, when anything said would have been looked up upon less dissmisively, there was nothing. We just heard about their supposed actions from Kinnear, such as the master plan of discussing a 2 year contract. If Keegan is chasing the club for constructive dismissal then that's the likely reason they haven't commented on it, so to say they haven't done an interview on camera because they don't give a crap is rubbish. As for the gagging order on Keegan over transfers, I thought it was a great idea at the time as did many others on here. How many wish they would do the same with Kinnear now? Fair do's if the legal side of things stopped them talking about Keegan. And say what? 'no comment'? Just because you talk about how you want to improve your squad, how things are potentially looking, looking dosent mean you have to go to the other end of the spectrum of Kinnears talk. So why not do an interview regarding Joe Kinnear and the short term plan when he was brought on board? And what about when he was kept on for the rest of the season? Does Llambias have an opnion? Why does it take the manager to ask the Chairman to be based in Newcastle for the transfer window if he care's so much?

Nope, the accounts have revealled a damn sight more than the 'deafening silence'. /and it's dragged up to Newcastle if you don't mind. There ya go lol. But the how easy would it have been to avoid the total silence? Its so unavoidable, it says so much they cant be arsed to just simply come in front of a camera and talk to the fans, its disgraceful treatment, and if they really cared they'd at least get that right. I totally agree, communication since things went tits up has been dreadful, but then (and I'm not defending them here, just trying to work it out) whatever they said (or might have said) post Keegan was either dismissed or classed as lies. There is not a lot they could say that would have be taken seriously during the period we were up for sale either to be fair. It is a different matter now that we are off the market though. They have said they will get back to us after the transfer window has closed. Fine. But preferably they should be feeding us reasurances and keeping us in touch all the time now because any one off press releases (with, as you picked up on, the usual statements about driving the club forward without expanding on just how we might do that) are going to be disected to hell with little sympathy from many. That's not what they need to get the pie boycotters back on board. The FACT statement was looked upon for what it was - slimy, pathetic & despite all the FACTS, lacking in clarity after what had just happened. Lets just say Keegan wasnt lied to, and his claim was false. After he said 'My opinion is a manager shouldnt have a player imposed on him he dosent want', why not say 'we have not & would never bring in a player that the manager does not want. Despite bieng turned down/missing out on some transfer targets, it has not happened in this case & would never happen in the future. Clarity. But the most obivous conclusion is, they couldnt say that, because thats what they potentially were doing. And why not release a statement/do an interview on bloody tv. Most the statements dont even have a name to them. I agree, they we're in a difficult situation in the way people we're baying for blood, but at least an attempt to explain things on camrea would have went some way to helping. But they didnt want to do that, because imo they dont give a crap, & their attitude stinks. Even when things died down a bit, when anything said would have been looked up upon less dissmisively, there was nothing. We just heard about their supposed actions from Kinnear, such as the master plan of discussing a 2 year contract.

Nope, the accounts have revealled a damn sight more than the 'deafening silence'. /and it's dragged up to Newcastle if you don't mind. There ya go lol. But the how easy would it have been to avoid the total silence? Its so unavoidable, it says so much that they cant be arsed to just simply come in front of a camera and talk to the fans, its disgraceful treatment, and if they really cared they'd at least get that right. Dosent it reveal everything about their attitude towards the supporters? I bet if they were coming out saying 'the fans shouldnt be complaining, geordies are idiots & w*nkers etc' they'd get even more critisism, but because its the other end of the scale - but pretty much just as disgraceful - its not picked up on as much, but its the same two fingers up at us.

I think the squad definetely has some quality & part of the problem is not having a good enough manager - poor motivation to the players that are fit (some of whom are good) to bang on about injuries, when a lot of the injured players would be on the bench anyway. But there are definetely gaping holes in the squad - we desparately need a creator, and obviously cover for left back & right back.

Why dont we know what our chairman sounds like? Why has there never been any interviews what-so-ever from Wise, Llambias & Ashley for that matter, in amongst the chaos & worry surrounding the club? Unless their voice-boxes are broke, its in-excusable and a total piss take to the fans, the customers. Why demand KK is not to talk to the media about transfers, why? Why say no-one will sign unless Kevin wants him & then merley state he agreed to 'the system' in response to KK's accusation? Why, when talking about your plans to the fans, do you chose to do so by using the cliched sentance 'I want to take the club forward? Why does the manager have to educate the board about football for them to know we are in danger? Why offer, or even discuss, a two year contract for Kinnear after 4 wins from 17? Why does it take a request from the manager for the 'chairman' to actually be based in Newcastle? If Llambias has to be dragged up to Newcastle then please, after the transfer window, bugger off & never come back. This man should not be at the club, and I'd rather he didnt suddenly RELUCTANTLY start to try & do his job, I'd rather he didnt and just left asap. The total & utter contempt these people have treated the fans with is unforgivable, and I dont see why I should believe they didnt treat Keegan any differently. The defeaning silence has been more revealing than the accounts imo.

The accounts from last year reveal how money is tight and why Ashley is reluctant to spend much on players, which is more understandable. It also probably shows why he brought in the recruitment team to keep spending in check and as tight as possible. Everton were, and have been for a long time, in the same financial difficulty, losing money and basically cash-strapped. They instead chose to appoint, in their judgement, a good manager, obviously explained about being cash-strapped, and put their faith in him to do a good job & his judgement. Look whats happened - he's built his own team, signing really well, and turned them into a side challenging the top 6 more often than not, and its very much a David Moyes team & a David Moyes club. He didn’t need Dennis Wise, because he's a quality manager, and if that’s the case, it speaks for itself. I don’t think David Moyes would very chuffed if Dennis Wise came back with Xisco after asking for a left back, but again, not that he'd accept that position anyway. Imo its the perfect example - have an understanding with your manager from the outset, then have total faith in him doing the job.

Wahey!!! Did you not think it was a good idea to do that in the first place! And does it not speak volumes that the 1st team coach is on his knee's having to drag you down here, t***.

should have moved for curbishley once the sale wasn't gonna happen, he'd do a fucksite better than JFK but probably wouldn't want to touch this madhouse But its not a madhouse, the finances are simply poor, and we need someone to be able to work with a very limited budget, right?? (I was going to say we need a wheeler dealer but thats Wise's job isnt it). As a lot of clubs are in a tough position with finances - its very clear we are too - so whats the difference with us?? Or maybe its not such a respectful position...

They are going to, they said in the press that they would be saying something after the transfer window has closed. "sorry for the absolute silence in amongst all the chaos, we just havent been feeling too well" are they gonna say that? Its simply inexcusable & a piss take. And when they say they're going to come out (from the darkness, wahey, better not stay out too long) do they mean a nicely worded statement on the website or a proper bloody interview? We dont even know what the 'Chairman' sounds like ffs.

The finances are poor. Does that really mean that we have to someone like Kinnear in charge? If the position bieng offered is respectful, then are we not able to get a more respectful manager? Why would you not even want to wait until the summer and look at who's possibily available and weigh everything up?

Why dont they talk? Why dont they confirm/deny Kinnear's contract offer? And if confirm, why dont they at least attempt to justify the pathetic contract offer to Kinnear? Why doesnt Dennis Wise, the main man doing the transfers, do a bloody interview talking about what he's trying to do, about how potentially tough it is at the moment? How its a potentially tough time to buy players? Wheather hes confident things can be done? Your the Director of Football, so in amongst all the dismay at the club, why not try and calm things down, with like I said a interview. This applies to Llambias too.

Dont care if it seems 'narrow minded' etc, I mean I understand different view points, but I'd have him back.