timnufc22

Jim Jefferies

The way the whole clubs bieng run is a shambles, aye? So how can you say he'd run away the first time he didnt get exactly what he wanted, when he walked away because of the above?

I think your missing the bigger picture man! Why blame one man when there were 11 (+3) players on the pitch the other day who couldn't give a toss after 64 mins on Saturday? Then a coaching staff unable to motivate or encourage. I agree that Ashley could and should done more in the window but our squad is under achieving massively AND that includes more than just one or two experienced international players! The club has problems throughout and not all of it is down to Ashley. The people that can start to turn things around are the ones we look at on match day and unless they pull their fingers out, we're sinking fast. Talk to the papers as much as possible saying 'we're not going down', 'this club is too big', 'the fans are great' but I'd much rather have 3 points than more bollocks and broken promises on the back pages. Off the field is a completely different story to on it, and on it is where we're going to stay up! Ashley can change every aspect of the club! He is responsible completely since September. Ashley can appoint the manager, set transfer budgets, renewal contracts, positive press statements and more important SHOW HE CARES. Again I agree but only to a certain extent. We wasted two/three months after KKs departure when the a large percentage of fans got what they wanted and the club was up for sale. Ashley CAN'T be blamed for anything in this time as people wanted him gone and he did what was wanted. Now for one reason or another, the club wasn't sold and therefore Ashley has come back and HAS been changing things. However, some people will always be blind to these actions because of their views. We have had a shocking season with injuries/other reasons for not being able to select players and this would have been the case if we had had a world class manager in place. For those asking the questions to why this person and that person weren't brought in, they should ask themselves what we offered? 1/4 of a squad able to play, no cup competitions, no Europe, a mess of a club structural system, the constant pressure of fans etc. Who would walk into that? Now I'm not saying I'm a fan of the current manager/coaching team but thats what we have and unless they start to perform as one, its not going to get any better. I do believe that we have a strong squad and that we should be playing a lot better now that we have all but a few back. Theres been plenty of promising moments in recent matches (the majority of the Man Utd game and the 1st half the other day for example) but questions have to be asked to why these can't last the full 90 minutes. Too much of time they stand around when we're on the back foot and wait for guidance but no-one has the balls to stand up and be counted. What do you want Ashley to do? Pull on his shorts and play up front? Bark orders from the bench? Stand in goal so that we can't concede? As for caring, he is a very brave man to come back to the hatrid he was faced with back in October/Novemeber. Some of the things said on message boards and insults at matches were bang out of order and I wouldn't have ever thought of even stepping back in Newcastle if it was me, let alone attending a match. He is trying to change things but he will be the first to admit that he doesn't know football. We have had and are having a very tough season but if it wasn't for Ashley coming in, we would have most likely been in administration and facing point deductions. I'm not fully behind Ashley but I believe he can do good for us if given the chance. Unfortunately I think his time has been ruined by the reaction of many to KKs departure and something many will never let him forget, despite whatever he achieves. Thats just my opinion, shoot me down for stating it but thats what I think! The reaction came about not only because Keegan left in the circumstances he did, but also because of the silence from the club. Ashley could have come out before the Hull game with a statement in reaction to Keegan leaving. A statement similar to the one he released when selling the club; re-enforcing his vision for the club, but also explaining things like Wise's role in more detail. People wouldn’t have gone as nuclear if this had happened. There was nothing apart from the 'FACT' statement, which had no name to it. It was crazy; anger was allowed to build up during that week because zero leadership was shown by the people at the club. There were allegations of foul play towards a legelnd of the club & during that time there was no communication from anyone at the club. But again, he still had the chance to attempt to sort the managerial side of things as soon as he announced the club was off the market - and when things had died down.

I dont think Ashley has a clue either Mike tbh. I was reading an article in The Guardian there and they raised a point which i thought was interesting: Kinnear might not even be back at all ffs Are they so stupid for it not to sink in they are playing with his health here? Its unreal the way they are waiting for him to come back, theres Kinnear sweating over D-Day hopeful of getting a 'green light' to go back in the pressure cooker after having a heart operation... seriously the FA or someone should be onto Ashley & co asking what the hell they are doing.

No [decent] manager in their right mind would touch Newcastle after he left---another manager fired/gone in no time ,a hostile fan base..etc who the f*** would blame them. My point being Keegan i believe should have got on with things for the season at least if he truly loved Newcastle. Its a fair point but if Ashley had shown any kind of leadership when Keegan left then it wouldnt have been as bad - anger was allowed to build up more & more because of SILENCE from the club. No-one had a direction from the club to grab onto because no-one said anything, unbelievable. But even if he didnt appoint a manager then - surley when he took the club off the market and decided he was staying then he could have started again & appointed a long term manager, or at least look for one. There was no protests etc around that time, a manager coming in then would have known he would have been welcomed if it was a promosing appointment. But what did he do? Get a 3 year contract on the table for Kinnear.

Aye, its the big question. It surley points to the manager's position simply not bieng a very credible one with the DOF running a lot of the show, as much as I didnt want to believe it. I was waiting for Ashley to make the manager's position credible. Was waiting for him to prove our DOF system is a one many good managers would work with. He's had the chance to do that. But instead, all he's done is add more weight to the argument that they just want a yes man. The fact that its obvious we should be looking for better than Kinnear is bad enough, but to add that he's just had a heart operation with a history of problems and they still want him is just disgraceful & unbelievable.

___________________Lovenkrands_______Martins_____________________ ______________________________Owen____________________________ __________________Jonas________Butt_________Nolan________________ Enrique____________Cacapa________________Colocini______________Beye _____________________________Harper_____________________________ ?

Paul Kemsley among others?

Because we were in the same trouble last season. Keegan got out of it by persisting with an attacking mindset & changing to 4-3-3. Hughton thinks he can get out of it by bieng more cautious. The former worked, the latter looked very likely it wont.

I don't think Souness was the only reason for our decline, by any means. Also, with both Liverpool and us, he took over clubs at a bad time, but having said that, I think there's a flaw in his man management skills which regularly gets exposed when the going gets tough. So definitely not. It exasperates me that half the time we're talking about stability, and the other half we're talking about changing the manager yet again. This has been such a traumatic season, on and off the field, that we can't judge Kinnear at this point. He's been firefighting, and providing he still has the support of the dressing room, he should be given a summer transfer window and another season to show what he can do. Are you taking the piss?!! s*** managers shouldn't be given time as Souness proved. Stability is vital, but at the same time, its pointless with a s*** manager in charge. Souness had 3 transfer windows and over £50million when taking us from 5th to 14th. I remember arseholes like Alan Hansen calling us who wanted him out fickle and telling us to give him time. Hanson and all the other idiots who said 'give him time' were proved wrong. He f***ed us up. But we had injuries

So surley theres better manager's out there than Kinnear who would know he needs to work within the clubs structure? Why not go out and try & get a better one?

You and TT keep making excuses for munters who are failing our club. Try using a bit of logic sometime. Pointing out where Keegan is to blame is not making excuses for anyone else. So you blame KK and not ashley? I blame them both, and the fans who immediately went nuclear. The reaction came about not only because Keegan left in the circumstances he did, but also because of the silence from the club. Ashley could have come out before the Hull game with a statement in reaction to Keegan leaving. A statement similar to the one he released when selling the club; re-enforcing his vision for the club, but also explaining things like Wise's role in more detail. People wouldn’t have gone as nuclear if this had happened. There was nothing apart from the 'FACT' statement, which had no name to it. It was crazy really; anger was allowed to build up during that week because zero leadership was shown by the people at the club. Yes, the chaos/unrest did not help the team, but there were allegations of foul play towards a legend of this club & during this time there was no communication from anyone at the club. It was mis-managed so badly & the reaction was, in part, a result of that, and understandable imo.

Question: Why dosent the manager a) Identify the players himself & b) have his own scouts to identify the players & report back to him?

I dont care how good Guterriez & Bassong are - it dosent change the fact that a) we went into the season with a threadbare squad in areas, b) So does Dennis Wise take responsibility for any poor 'singings'? (as we know the answer is no, the manager does) & c) On a personal level, I simply do not like the idea of a DOF, not the manager, finding players for the first team!

Exactly. It is a cliche thats easy to use, but he clearly dosetn give a crap. It is NOT a 'style of play'. It is a total lack of application & effort. I defended him after 3, 4 years when people were starting to get on his back then, but this crossed the line a long time ago. Its really like some kind of sick joke. If he had any ambition he'd have left long before now & got first team football in the Championship or whenever. And its a total, utter disgrace & shambles the management keep on playing him. Words dont do it justice, they really dont. They do not compound how shambolic it is to keep playing him, and his attitude.

Pointless really because I dont agree with the system, fair enough you could get someone more qualified like with better knowledge, but for me the system only gains credibility if a quality manager is appointed/attempted to be appointed.

This.Thats all. Wouldnt they be suing him for 2m? Couldnt give a s*** tbh,i just know if something meant so much to me i wouldnt be trying to skank money from it. Seeing as he was contractually obliged to pay up £2m if he broke the deal, he'd only avoid that if he claimed that they'd broken the deal. Bearing that in mind might explain him accepting an out of court settlement, eh? Doesn't want to be wrongfully sued but doesn't want to screw the club he loves - a settlement would thus not suggest his case wasn't watertight. Flawless logic, so far as I'm aware. Flawless logic? He was contractually obliged to pay the club £2 million if he walked. He walked. He doesn't want to pay the £2 milion to the club so he sued them in what is essentially a defensive action. Occam's razor, my man. He was given promises & took the job on the grounds of having the final say on players. Those promises we're broken. 2m clause is then not justifiable You obviously have inside information that I do not possess. Just saying thats obviously Keegans view.

This.Thats all. Wouldnt they be suing him for 2m? Couldnt give a s*** tbh,i just know if something meant so much to me i wouldnt be trying to skank money from it. Seeing as he was contractually obliged to pay up £2m if he broke the deal, he'd only avoid that if he claimed that they'd broken the deal. Bearing that in mind might explain him accepting an out of court settlement, eh? Doesn't want to be wrongfully sued but doesn't want to screw the club he loves - a settlement would thus not suggest his case wasn't watertight. Flawless logic, so far as I'm aware. Flawless logic? He was contractually obliged to pay the club £2 million if he walked. He walked. He doesn't want to pay the £2 milion to the club so he sued them in what is essentially a defensive action. Occam's razor, my man. He was given promises & took the job on the grounds of having the final say on players. Those promises we're broken. 2m clause is then not justifiable

This.Thats all. Wouldnt they be suing him for 2m? Couldnt give a s*** tbh,i just know if something meant so much to me i wouldnt be trying to skank money from it. I understand looking at it like that like, though SBR had to fight for his compensation from the club, and yes I know he was sacked, but if Keegan left after bieng shafted in his eyes then its the same type of thing, & if he's been treated how he thinks then he's not going to be happy to pay 2m.

This.Thats all. Wouldnt they be suing him for 2m?

I think people are referring to this: “We are hoping to reach two important settlements in the next week or so which potentially could cost the club a lot of money,” “One of those is the settlement with Kevin Keegan and the other is the fee for Jonas Gutiérrez. We are talking about millions of pounds here and, if we have to pay out a vast sum of money, that will hit our revenue elsewhere.” They stated many times "Kevin has the final say on players" Then Keegan says "Imo a manager should not a player imposed on him" Then came the FACT statement... surely if the bit in bold was true, they would have listed "It is a fact Kevin Keegan had the final say on players”? Instead of "It is a fact Kevin Keegan agreed to the system”? The dodgyness of the DOF system seems to be very telling by the fact they want Joe Kinnear long term, a better manager coming in would give credibility to the system, surely they'd want that if there’s nothing dodgy about it?

With Vetre & Jimmenez bieng the scouts also (& having that title), what else does Wise (DOF) do aswell as scout? Report to the Chairman about football matters... shouldnt that have been Keegan?

Where's that Wise quote where he clearly says he would run everything past KK? Why would he say that if his remit was so clear...running the show an all. You have to make you're mind up..Was/is Wise in total control of player transfers? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/7223479.stm Wise explains role at Newcastle Keegan wants to make it clear he is the boss of Wise Newcastle executive director Dennis Wise has insisted that manager Kevin Keegan has the "final word" on all football matters at the club. Wise left his role as Leeds boss earlier this week to take up his position with the Premier League club. "I'm here to help Kevin, bringing young players through and also recommend certain players to him," said Wise. "He'll say yes and no, he has the final word, no-one else. Everything that happens will be run past him." Wise, who has previously managed Millwall and Swindon, added: "I'm not going to bring players in behind his back - I'm not into that. "A lot of people have got mixed up with the reason why I am here. I'm not here to be involved in the first team, I'm not here to manage. "I have to concentrate more on the academy, we need some young blood coming through of our own. We need to look abroad for players and that's my intention over the next few years." Keegan has insisted that the appointment of Wise was made with his blessing and that he believes the new structure will be successful. He said: "I am all for the changes and I approve of them. They want someone on the board who understands football, and Dennis understands football very well. "It will work very well. Dennis reports to me - the chain is established. "The club has become slightly fragmented. From my point of view, it's a positive thing - provided I get all the help I need. "I know what Dennis is going to do, and the idea in principle is good - to look for new players, to bring youngsters through and do things which our academy isn't doing so much at the moment." Keegan also revealed he was involved in the appointment after speaking to owner Mike Ashley before he returned as manager. "I knew about it. It's not a surprise to me, it might be to other people," Keegan told BBC Radio 5 live. "Two or three names were given to me when I first sat down and talked about the job with the owner. One of them was Dennis. "I know Dennis. I know he's intelligent. I know his job here is to help me. He's on my side. "How can any manager be against someone who is going to come to the club to try to bring in talent? "It's right for this football club. A lot of people outside might be shocked about it. I think in the long term it's the right decision. It's something that needs to be done."

Why punish managers? If there were more top class English youngsters coming through the ranks, we'd see them. But the problem is the poor coaching we have for kids, thats the problem area, to put it on the door of foreigners is cheap & lazy, & plain wrong imo!!

He could have come out before the Hull game with a statement in reaction to Keegan leaving. A statement similar to the one I'm talking about; re-enforcing his vision for the club. There was nothing apart from the 'FACT' statement, which had no name to it. It was crazy really; anger was allowed to build up during that week because zero leadership was shown by the people at the club. Yes, the chaos/unrest did not help the team, but there were allegations of foul play towards a legend of this club & during this time there was no communication from someone at the club. It was mis-managed so badly & the reaction was in part a result of that.