timnufc22

All that may be perfectly right but at the end of the day I still don't really know what he does for this club. It's a bit hard to praise him for sticking to his job when we don't fully understand what it is. By the same token it's even more harsh to criticise him for it. Not in the sense its something he could quite easily clear up himself. And prejudice the potential court case with Keegan? Wake up & be realistic man Isnt the court case about THEN? Why has that stopped him talking about NOW, the present? Because talking about now would suggest that what is happening now was always the plan in terms of people's roles within the recruitment team. Wouldnt the evidence & everything said back then cover that?

All that may be perfectly right but at the end of the day I still don't really know what he does for this club. It's a bit hard to praise him for sticking to his job when we don't fully understand what it is. By the same token it's even more harsh to criticise him for it. Not in the sense its something he could quite easily clear up himself. And prejudice the potential court case with Keegan? Wake up & be realistic man Isnt the court case about THEN? Why has that stopped him talking about NOW, the present?

All that may be perfectly right but at the end of the day I still don't really know what he does for this club. It's a bit hard to praise him for sticking to his job when we don't fully understand what it is. By the same token it's even more harsh to criticise him for it. Not in the sense that its something he's had more than enough to easily clear up himself.

And if his job is player recruitment, while some good players we're brought in, the squad was ultimately left under-strangth, lacking the full-backs & midfielder the team, and Keegan, was crying out for.

People suspect he is an interference with the first team, and dont agree with that - the suspicion has grown because of any lack of denial from Wise himself. That's a fair point; why hasn't Wise himself had anything to say on, well anything? If he's just a youth scout then fair enough, but why the fancy title, 'assisting the board' etc? All we've had are these anonymous statements which when compared to one another are as clear as mud. If he came out and said anything would people believe him? The possibility of a claim for constructive dismissal from Keegan probably plays some sort of part in the lack of comments on people's roles from the club tbh. Fair enough, as you say there would be many waiting to pounce on anything he said. But as I said before, if he's merely a glorified scout, what is there to be afraid of? If he and his team are responsible for the young players then nobody can find fault with that. If he and his team were responsible for bringing in the likes of Bassong and Jonas on the cheap then nobody can find fault with that. If they're keeping quiet because of the Keegan claim, what does that say to us lot? It suggests they have something to hide. Exacly, but as you say, the silence (aswell as Keegan walking) suggests he/the system is in the wrong. Why hasn't Keegan given any interviews? Because of potential legal reasons. He is not at the club, Wise IS, and while Wise cant comment on the past, he can talk about NOW.

People suspect he is an interference with the first team, and dont agree with that - the suspicion has grown because of any lack of denial from Wise himself. That's a fair point; why hasn't Wise himself had anything to say on, well anything? If he's just a youth scout then fair enough, but why the fancy title, 'assisting the board' etc? All we've had are these anonymous statements which when compared to one another are as clear as mud. If he came out and said anything would people believe him? The possibility of a claim for constructive dismissal from Keegan probably plays some sort of part in the lack of comments on people's roles from the club tbh. Fair enough, as you say there would be many waiting to pounce on anything he said. But as I said before, if he's merely a glorified scout, what is there to be afraid of? If he and his team are responsible for the young players then nobody can find fault with that. If he and his team were responsible for bringing in the likes of Bassong and Jonas on the cheap then nobody can find fault with that. If they're keeping quiet because of the Keegan claim, what does that say to us lot? It suggests they have something to hide. Exacly, but as you say, the silence (aswell as Keegan walking) suggests he/the system is in the wrong.

People suspect he is an interference with the first team, and dont agree with that - the suspicion has grown because of any lack of denial from Wise himself. That's a fair point; why hasn't Wise himself had anything to say on, well anything? If he's just a youth scout then fair enough, but why the fancy title, 'assisting the board' etc? All we've had are these anonymous statements which when compared to one another are as clear as mud. If he came out and said anything would people believe him? The possibility of a claim for constructive dismissal from Keegan probably plays some sort of part in the lack of comments on people's roles from the club tbh. No, not everyone would not believe him, but it would obviously help a lot just to hear from him, and a lot more people would potentially be more accepting of the role if it sounded ok about fair. So he dosent have to talk about the past, talk about now, this window, when the clubs off the market, we are potentially buying players again, he can confirm his role from this point onwards.

Eh? His job is defined as: Basically Ashley and the board didn't (and possibly still don't) have a scooby how to run a football club so they asked Wise to not advise them on footballing matters due to his experience in the game. This as it says above conducting their end of the transfer business and adding to the academy. The problem is defining how far those roles of "assisting" the board go. Does he go scouting? Does he sit on the negotiating table and most importantly does he work with or above the manager. Like you say, it's ambiguous but it's a starting point hence being "fairly clear" as a pose to being "crystal clear". Youve said it yourself, and showed why people are suspicious, its not clear enough is it (especially in amongst all the speculation)? Yes, he's an easy target for who he is. But what makes me angry is the fact his role has been described in such a way that it cover's a lot of potenial roles. It makes me angry that this system, i.e. him bieng involved in the first team, and potentially forcing players on the manager, has had a negative effect on a potential positive direction the club could have went under Keegan, and that a legend such as KK deserves much better. It is annoying that even now, amongst all the speculation, Wise has still not confirmed what his role is definetely about. That not only worries me in terms of the structure and the credibility ofi it, but the silence also feels like two fingers up at the fans.

People suspect he is an interference with the first team, and dont agree with that - the suspicion has grown because of any lack of denial from Wise himself.

Or maybe people dont agree with the job? That's hardly Wise's fault. Its not his fault personally no. A lot of people are not happy with his percieved role, the potential interference & conflict it may bring.

Or maybe people dont agree with the job? You don't think we should have someone in dedicated to bringing in young talent to fill our academy? No, I think we should, and if that is Wise's role then thats brilliant. But it seems that his role also makes him involved in the transfers of first team players, thats what I have a problem with.

Or maybe people dont agree with the job?

I think Wise should have, say, 3-4m for getting some cheap bargains for the first team. Certainly the manager should have the control but it isn't a bad idea to give Wise a small budget when he's doing extensive scouting. I understand the potential of that, but for me it should be 100% the manager. Wise might even bring in a good player, but dosent nessicarily fit into the dynamic of the team the manager is building. And once players are signed who do not turn out to be any good, it falls apart, because its the manager who is accountable. Should be either general scout, or recruiting young/academy players imo.

What happens if the manager doesn't have any scouts? Do you remember when Glen Roeder was here and he went scouting Dirk Kuyt even though he had already agreed to join Liverpool, then complained after that the club only had one scout at the club? The manager should be able to appoint whoever/how many scouts he wants. He's the most important man at the football club, therefore should be able to create the structure he wants, and the club should be moulded around the manager in a way. Like David Moyes at Everton, on a low budget.

After all thats went on, and because of the lack of communication, I am suspicous & worried about how much power he has. And in the long run, I also dont agree with him bieng involved in the recruitment of the first team. Academy/younger players, no problem, seemingly fine work already been done in that department, and a refreshing change too. Imo the first team should be managed 100% by the manager, who has signs the players he wants, has his own set up of scouts, all on the budget given to him. So it is clear & precise, see the thread: http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,59613.msg1663112.html#msg1663112

True, but I think the general opinion was 'providing we add a midfielder & full-backs'.

Ashley Young in line for new contract By Andy Walker on Aug 18, 08 08:28 AM in Journalists VILLA star Ashley Young is hoping to land himself a bumper new deal with Martin O'Neill's men. The England winger, 23, sees himself as Villa's most valuable asset behind Gareth Barry, whose future in the West Midlands is still not clear. And having watched fellow starlet Gabby Agbonlahor put pen-to-paper on a new four-year deal last week and John Carew sign a one-year extension, Young wants to follow suit. The ex-Watford man is 18 months into the four-and-a-half year contract that he signed when he arrived from Vicarage Road last year, a deal that earns him between £30,000 and £35,000 a week. Now Young is hoping to commit his future further and secure a package worth closer to £70,000 per week. Young has proved the critics, who slammed the £9.65 million fee that Villa paid for him, wrong by producing sparking form at Villa Park. The Stevenage-born star has gone on to win three England caps and is considered one of the Premier League's hottest young stars. And after O'Neill has spent all summer fending off competition for Barry, the Irishman won't want to have to do the same for Young. O'Neill said: "Ashley has been fantastic for us. I'm pleased Gabby and John have signed new contracts and we've got a couple more players that we are looking to do exactly the same with - with Ashley Young being one of them. "We are in conversation about that. I don't think the chairman (Randy Lerner) has any major problem about sorting out wages for people if they are doing the business week in and week out on the pitch. "Agbonlahor has done that in my two seasons here, Carew has been terrific since being swapped with Milan Baros (at Lyon) and Young has been absolute class. "It means he will get a new contract. Ashley hasn't come and asked for anything. "He has got a number of years left to run on his contract but I'd like to sort him out and I am sure he is enjoying his football here which is great. "If he continues to play in the fashion he is for us, who knows what might happen to him in the future but we would be delighted to keep him a bit longer." Agbonlahor has had a number of extendions too, Barry will be on a fairly high wages? Just be interesting to see what villa's wages are like on the whole.

That interview looks like it is from last year. Is indeed, I'd just never saw it, and has points/debate that still remain now.

Interesting Shearer interview about it all. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/7601194.stm

Where did you find that? Do they have a similar summary about us? Loss before tax £33m Debts £79m - £59m paid off by Ashley Interest payable £6m Ownership Mike Ashley,via his company, St James' Holdings Limited. The state it's in The tragic half of Mike Ashley's tragi-farce is that he can justly claim to be a financial benefactor. In September 2007 he paid off £59m loans taken out while Freddy Shepherd was the chairman and major shareholder. Ashley apparently paid real money, rather than make loans of his own. But financial responsibility counts for sadly little while Newcastle are scuffling at the bottom of the table and Dennis Wise is director of football. Verdict Even if crowds fall further, they are unlikely to struggle financially because of Ashley's backing, until he manages to sell the club.

Aston Villa Loss before tax £2.8m Debts £63.8m Interest payable £2.7m Ownership Reform Acquisitions LLC, an American company owned ultimately by US resident Randy Lerner The state it's in Full houses enjoying muscular football thanks to Martin O'Neill's coaching and Randy Lerner's ownership mean happy days at Villa Park. Unlike the North American owners of Manchester United and Liverpool, Lerner has not loaded his own borrowings on to the club, and has put real cash in. While Lerner, a billionaire and now Villa's chairman, stands behind the club, Villa look sound. Verdict Villa's debts are not huge, particularly given Lerner's support, and ticket prices among the lowest in the Premier League maintain crowds. How does this compare?

If you want to go on rumours about finance, then the rumours were Dennis Wise & Llambias treated Keegan with a lack of respect, and its not like the board havent treat the fans with contempt is it? I can imagine how frustrating it could have been accepting the system, but then seemingly losing more & more control, potentially going from 'we only bring in players you want' to 'this is the player we need to bring in'. Here's an interview with richard bevan from lma at the time http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/7601211.stm

I don't think anyone knows for a fact that Wise was the one bringing in players that the manager didn't want, for all we know it could have been Tony Jinenez, who was the head of player recruitment while here and had close links with the Spanish teams. The only reason Wise would be negotiating deals now is because Jimenez has gone. Have you got a link to where Keegan said he didn't want Xisco? Because the only interview I've seen where the 2 are mentioned is from Xisco when he first signed, saying Keegan met him and told him about his plans for the club, not really something you would do if you didn't want the player is it. Wise's role has always been improving the club through the academy and scouting network until I hear different, he's seems to be making a good job of both too. They're not going to either, why come out in the January window when the club is apparently looking for players and saying your manager is full of s***? Okay then, the lack of clarity on Jimmenez' role... that angered people that it wasnt very clear. Keegan's statement saying he dosent believe a player should be brought in he dosent want, whoever it is, it might not be Xisco, it might be, whoever it was most people believe someone was brought in he didnt want. But there is concern about how much power he has - whether he had, or now has, the say on some players coming in & going out, which was sparked by Keegan resigning. Why should they come out?? Because its very confusing, there are mixed messages bieng sent out by Kinnear, and some simple words without saying 'the manager is full of shit' from bloody Llambias the Chairman could potentially make some of the confusion clearer.

We've never had a Chairman (or MD) in the past go to the training ground to speed up transfers, I can't see how this will make any difference. Basically, the manager is saying it will help things, and if thats the case then why wasnt he doing it in the first place. Then its 'but Kinnear's talking tripe'... then why dosent Llambias himself come out and talk about the current sitaution regarding transfers?

I can see most of what you're saying but Kinnear didn't have to get Llambias to travel to Newcastle, he moved him from St James' to the training ground. Thats fair do's if he was already here, but just simply Kinnear saying he asked the Chairman to do something that would benefit/speed up the transfer window dealings, and needing to be told to do it, instead of knowing this anyway because he's the chairman, gives a very bad impression.