maze

bugger.

well, either nufc.com are all on vacation, or they are just sloooooow... or this is just ITK s***.....

* ooooops! that should be nufc.co.uk:P

Link anyone?

First of all, I'll just add James' thread in here, because it's very good and relevant

I'm not gonna write a fucking novel about this, as it has been discussed so many times in here, that we have now moved on to discuss the discussion.

I guess a lot of people, including myself, expected a 'overhaul' last summer. We appointed Big Sam, we were taken over, and although BS wasn't the new board appointment - they did decide to keep him. For me that was a sign of trust, and not "we'll-keep-Sam-and-see-how-it-goes" kind of thing. Now somewhere along the road a certain Ashley decided that he didn't want to spend a lot of cash - which in turn disappointed me (and maybe a lot of you guys) = no 'shopping spree'/overhaul after all.

Almost a year after the takeover, we should now have a clearer view of how everything's going to be. As most of you are aware of deep down we had a huge debt problem. Ashley cleared that - or atleast most of it. Which enable us to continue in a more healthy financial state. So the long-term foundation's actually undergoing (far from completed) a major overhaul, compared to how far down in the shit we were,and could have been.

Also, our youth academy has a long way to go before we reach the level of i.e. West Ham - because thats were we want to be (only X times better). This process clearly takes some time - and the faster we start - the faster it'll yield results. This leads me over to our 'scouting network', which obviously has been missing in the past, more or less - now it finally looks like we are doing some very good progress here, and we have been linked with so many  players lately that it is actually fun to (atleast think) we have an exciting time ahead of us.

The things I've been writing this far mostly concern the infrastructure (in addition to financial stuff), and some might think: " What the hack has this shit to do with the topic". Well I'm getting there....

So, let me give you two situations:

X: Club A has not paid much attention to infrastructure (here: backroom staff, youth and money)

Y: Club B has consistently developed their infrastructure, (in other words improved backroom staff, more healthy financially speaking, and given youth academy its deserved attention )

Who's gonna succeed...??

X?

Y?

or both?

Well, obviously both can succeed. To what degree is another 'golden question'. Now lets say Club A is Newcastle. We have spent big on many many players, we've got some success, and when we need to replace players we do, and then continue our success. We have to spent big, because we don't have the infrastructure that Club B has. (this example is wide, and one could build on this! I know.... ) alternatively we can say that club A is Chelsea. They have a super squad, and have success, but its been a long time since we have seen a Chelsea product capture a first team spot (or even had the chance and trust). So every time they need a new/better player - they buy him.

Many people like that - it's the madman's world. Shop 'till you drop mentality. But you all know Roman have spent a lot of money on Chelsea, and they are yet to show some positives financially....

Alternatively Newcastle can become Club B (transform from A to B) - Clearing the debt, start making some money. Maybe Club B has a 'half-decent' squad (some fans think so) and/but they still manage to finish somewhere in the middle. So they spent some money and brings in a couple of good first team players to - the very least sustain their position in the league. At the same time they use a lot of money and energy on consistently developing their infrastructure. As time goes one should expect this commitment to yield some positive results. Maybe the results are of such character that they have the players Club A desperately want, so they can either:

a) keep

or..

b) sell

Lets assume that Club B doesn't have to sell*, and therefore keep these 'super' talents. Now, one should really expect this club to grow, and climb the table. Maybe not that fast in the start, but that will come eventually. As time goes by, Club B continue their positive development, earning money and so on, and they start mixing their own super talents with talents from other clubs - and all of their hard work have made them among the top clubs.

(alternatively club B can be at the very start of their development, and therefore need the money, haven't qualified for Euro. comp. etc, so they sell to Club A for big money and use the it to - further develop, pay debt, or buy some good first team players. As time goes by Club B steadily builds up, and at the end of the 'day', when Club A knocks on the door and says : "Hi there, I want your players", they can simply say: "No, we don't sell". What's Club A gonna do? It's infrastructure hasn't be a priority and the clubs in the B-category doesn't want to sell   Well it's got to start doing the same as Club B started with - The only problem is that Club B is so far ahead and very good at this, that if Club A ever succeed doing the same it will take time)

The down side is of course that as a supporter, one cannot expect (any) short-term success. On the other hand, the long-term sounds very promising - both financial/infrastructural and of course on the pitch.

So, if you apply the above to this topic/thread it's pretty clear what's going on, aye?

Ok, so this is simplified.... and my god.. this became a novel..

Bottom-line is though,  a major 'overhaul' doesn't guarantee we won't disappoint as Tottenham did last season. Certainly decreases the value of our current players - cause we tell everybody that we wanna get rid of everything - and Keegan has indeed shown us that the players we have can play football. So by keeping the majority of the squad, and at this stage just add some more makes sense.

Finally, say we do "the club B" scenario, and become like the top four, well you all know we do have the financial power to atleast meet the players demand when it come to wages - just the opposite of what Arsenal can/does today

|maze|

CHELSEA have continued their cull by axing assistant boss Henk ten Cate.

 

The Dutchman, 53, joined the club from Ajax in October to work alongside manager Avram Grant.

 

And with Grant removed from his role last weekend following defeat in the Champions League final, Ten Cate's future had looked decidedly shaky.

 

A club statement read: "Chelsea Football Club can confirm we have terminated Henk ten Cate's contract today. This follows a meeting this morning.

 

"As a result of the team management changes at Chelsea FC, and in the light of any forthcoming appointment, it was clear this was the correct decision for all parties.

 

"Everybody at Chelsea would like to thank Henk for his contribution since coming to the club last year."

 

Only yesterday Ten Cate claimed his job was not under threat.

 

He said: "Half an hour before Chelsea made the message about Grant officially known, I was called by the chief executive Peter Kenyon.

 

“He informed me that the departure of Grant will not affect me. I’d rather go on that. I have a contract until 2010.”

 

Despite those reassurances, Chelsea have opted for a clear-out of backroom staff ahead of appointing a new manager at Stamford Bridge.

After what he did at Barca, I think he might be able to do a good jobb for us.

What do you guys think, should Newcastle appoint ten Cate as backroom staff?

Forgot the link there, sorry: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1223652.ece

The thing that worries me though, is that while some clubs are out there shopping player before Euro 2008, we seem to be waiting until the competition is over. If some of our targets are called-up and play well for their side, it is more likely their value will increase like nothing else.

voted worried about everything... Guess I'm just worried because we don't seem that aggressive in the transfer market anymore.... I'm so used to Newcastle being the center of attention in the media.... maybe I miss the Shepard-type of chairman who let the money talk....

Martins ain't leaving this club... trust me!

If he leaves I'd turn into Niko Bellic...

Deane Ashton   

I'm so looking forward to Ferguson's retirement... hope they fuckin crash and burn... fuck that team..

howay the lads!!

Do your magic Kev!!!!!

fuck man utd

Guys... let this shit be... you'll easily make this a 300-page-thread 

Anything wise to say about Keegan/Wise/Jimenez?

Mike, open yr wallet

Throw in ameobi or duke:)

The big four can't sign every player in europe. No-one went after alves at boro, he's looking good now, six in nine. I'd rather buy a berbatov for 10m than wait until someone else buys him then have to shell out 30m. Some people will say that's a more ambitious approach though, bizarrely. i know nowt about this lad but not taking a risk for the sake of paying more is a recipe for failure more often than not.

 

Well said.

This 

Also add, that whenever a big club gets involved in a transfer with a player from a relative attractive league, like France, there's always gonna be som "hype" about it. I've never heard of Gomis before I read that we were interested in him. This though, has apperently increased his value to, what?, £17 mill. Which I think is just because of all the hype. Looking at it this way, getting our scouting system up and going will eventually we enable us to find "the next Drogba", or " hot prospect", or whatever before everyone else get to know. This is what Wenger do, he bought Toure for.. £500K?

imp we are still just in the very beginning of making this happen, so I expect it to take sometime. Also, this being silly season, we will be linked with almost everything with the word football/soccer.

SWP by a mile.

 

 

 

 

1) Getting thumped 0-6 at Old Trafford and wondering if there was a single redeeming feature to any member of the squad.

 

2) Losing 0-1 to Blackburn at home and seriously contemplating relegation.

 

3) The cock sucking media.

echo this!

guys... chill the fuck down....

Probably just something from Fridays meeting..

Ash: Kev, it's about time you don't speak from your heart, use your head.

I'll still add Bullard to the list, although they survived...

What about Kitson?

To say "We don't have Wenger means we can't do it" does not hold. Is it possible for Newcastle to do this? Do you think Keegan agrees on this approach? Do you see Wise/Jimenez/Vetere as a sign of a new-building scouting network like Arsenal's? Does Wise have "enough" skills and knowledge to be head-chief of this setup? ..That is.. you think he can be the man to attract "the next Ronaldo" to St. James'?

KEVIN KEEGAN says Newcastle are a million miles away from the Big Four.

 

Well, here’s some news for him — they’re in it!

 

Going back 10 years to the start of the season Arsene Wenger took over at Arsenal, we have some revealing financial statistics.

 

In that time, the biggest spenders in the transfer market, naturally enough, have been Chelsea with an outlay of £475million.

 

Next come Manchester United with £298m, followed by Liverpool on £264m.

 

In fourth place, hang on a minute, that name’s a bit familiar, yes, it’s Newcastle United!

 

The Geordies have splashed out £231m (including £16m on Michael Owen) — just ahead of Tottenham on £229m.

 

So where are Arsenal? A distant sixth with £184m.

 

And here we have the great hole in Keegan’s argument — and one that might be mentioned by Mike Ashley when the former England boss has today’s summit meeting with the Newcastle owner in London.

 

If Wenger can more than manage just to stay in touch despite spending considerably less, why can’t Newcastle? The same applies to Spurs. Had it not been for injuries and drawing too many matches they should have won, Arsenal might well have been champions.

 

Look at the figures over the last five years and Wenger’s achievement is even greater.

 

Keegan is old school

 

An outlay of £78m against Newcastle’s £103m and Tottenham’s £140m.

 

In that period, Wenger has recouped £52m in sales — a far greater percentage than Newcastle (£51m) and Spurs (£56m).

 

These sort of spectacular Arsenal returns will be music to Ashley’s ears. Because this is exactly the sort of good housekeeping he is expecting from Keegan.

 

Unlike his manager — and being a hard-nosed businessman rather than a money-no-object philanthropist like Roman Abramovich — he doesn’t believe throwing inordinate amounts of money at a problem necessarily solves it.

 

Keegan, being old school, does. Despite the evidence to the contrary of his own club (£20m wasted on Jean-Alain Boumsong and Albert Luque for starters) and Tottenham.

 

Wenger has proved that if you put in place a network of trusted, well-connected and influential scouts, you can still unearth some remarkable raw material for relatively little.

 

We all know the names — Patrick Vieira, Cesc Fabregas, Kolo Toure, Robin Van Persie, Nicolas Anelka, Mathieu Flamini, Gael Clichy, Abou Diaby and Denilson among them.

 

Harness this talent to the sort of remarkable football education these players get at London Colney and it’s no surprise the Gunners’ production line is so prolific.

 

Sure, there have been a few mistakes — strangely two of them his most expensive purchases, Jose Reyes and Sylvain Wiltord.

 

And because Arsenal stick to a rigid salary cap outside special cases including Thierry Henry and Sol Campbell (a free transfer), some players like Flamini eventually slip through the net.

 

Generally, though, Arsenal maintain their position in the Big Four because Wenger is such an outstanding manager.

 

This is not what his rivals want to hear. Rafa Benitez constantly bemoans a so-called lack of funds — even Jose Mourinho, for all his spending, did the same.

 

And now Keegan.

 

It’s not quite that simple! As for throwing more money away on pay-offs, Keggy will discover today that’s not part of Ashley’s business plan, either.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1142516.ece

Comments?

According The Sun Online (http://thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article1141542.ece) Benitez wants £15 million for Crouch.

Three words: NO and NEVER!

Why do people want Ashton?? Good player but injured waaayy too much. Better going for other players instead imo.

Very good player imho. Injury prone - yes. But some of his injuries are down to bad luck.

I'd like us to get either Ashton (West Ham) or Peter Crouch (Liverpool)... in that prioritiy order...

St Etienne starlet Bafetimbi Gomis has revealed he would rather move to Italy than the Premier League.

 

The 22-year-old striker, labelled by some the new Didier Drogba, has really found his goal-scoring touch in the last two seasons with double figures on each occasion.

 

Newcastle have been strongly linked along with Bolton, whilst Marseille chairman Pape Diouf has stated his admiration for the young Frenchman.

 

In an interview with L'Equipe, Gomis stated he was attracted by a possible move to England - but revealed Serie A would be his preference.

 

"It is better to go to Italy playing than to England in a team at the bottom of the league," he said

 

"Anyway, I still have a lot of things to learn."

 

Next season

 

Gomis admits that he is very happy at St Etienne, particularly with coach Laurent Roussey - but he does not know whether he will be staying put or not.

 

"I am very happy to play for St Etienne, but I don't know if I will still be there next season," he continued.

 

"The coach did his best for me to stay last summer, and he has improved me a lot.

 

"I am very happy with him at the helm. His stay at the club will be an essential factor for my future."

 

Meanwhile, Senegal are ready to compete with France to cap Gomis - who is open to the idea of playing international football for either country.

 

"I don't have to choose between the French or Senegalese teams, as I have not been called yet," he insisted.

 

"The French team? It would be pretentious to ask for it, but I am not adverse to the French team."

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11678_3537575,00.html

It seems as though Ashley does not have the money to back his managers in the transfer market. After he bought the club and paid off the debt, it seems like little "Big Mike's" bank account is close to 0 (Zero). Really a shame! And you know what.. of all the people at the club, I have the most trust in Kevin Keegan.

 

He's a billionaire you nutter   His personal fortune was over £2 billion before he took over..

 

Ironic....

 

But seriously... Keegan is the new board's appiontment... one could expect them to back him up with some money.... they didn't back Big Sam up that much.. so he might as well give Keegan his war chest... or is Keegan just a temporary solution... that is.. was it just an emotional appointment to make sure season ticket holders buy tickets for next season + in general just boost the income?

 

What's your point man?  Who says he isn't being backed?  He's been backed to the tune of £18 million for one player so far, its not Mort or Ashley's fault if Modric fell for the Spuds hype..

Well, there are some articles around with Mort and Ashley saying we won't over pend. And that's fine, really. We don't want to do a "Leeds". On the other hand, this kinda passive way of saying thing, which really has been going on for "ages" is really not a smart way to state ambitions. First of all, we secured the EPL place some games ago, at that time the negotiation of contracts with players like Owen should have started. They really should make sure players like him stay on, cause waiting is only gonna start speculations. Second, we have a man in Keegan that most people trust. He's done it before, and he can do it again. Let him rebuild with establish players, which in some areas, is badly needed (*thin squad).

Third... yes, there is a fine line between young and cheap players, and more expensive and established players. We need a more solid base, before Wise/Vetere/Jimenez can start doing their magic and bring those wonderkids in. And these players are of course gonna cost, and Ashley needs to provide the cash. Keegan came in and turned us around. It was very depressing in here at times around x-mas, and people really threw stuff at the squad as being useless... well, Keegan has proved that the squad is better than we feared/thought... but that shouldn't be interpreted by Mort/Ashley that we don't need more quality.

It seems as though Ashley does not have the money to back his managers in the transfer market. After he bought the club and paid off the debt, it seems like little "Big Mike's" bank account is close to 0 (Zero). Really a shame! And you know what.. of all the people at the club, I have the most trust in Kevin Keegan.

 

He's a billionaire you nutter   His personal fortune was over £2 billion before he took over..

Ironic....

But seriously... Keegan is the new board's appiontment... one could expect them to back him up with some money.... they didn't back Big Sam up that much.. so he might as well give Keegan his war chest... or is Keegan just a temporary solution... that is.. was it just an emotional appointment to make sure season ticket holders buy tickets for next season + in general just boost the income?